Pro Pocket Size TOO Small for 9 Ball

[maha]

there will be less total runouts as with tighter pockets there will be more misses. and less good position.

and also more less attempts to run out with a safety shot taking place.

and tougher break rules.

 

[Trucker1989]

I don't agree with making the pockets extremely small (like 3.9 inches) but I wouldn't want them to go back to say, 5 inches either.

4 1/8 seems to be a sweet spot for pros, but I do think the Predator side pockets are too harsh.



Ko Ping Chung can hang with the 4 you mentioned

I don't disagree on KO

 

[Bavafongoul]

I’ve posted about pocket size a lot and what Iike. If you have a home pool table, put 5.5” corner pockets if you wanted.
It’s for your personal pleasure. You can put in 4.25” pockets. When it is your table, install as big or small as you prefer.

Personally, 5” CP seem too big but for so for some, maybe 4.75” is better suited instead of 4.5” for a home table. Pool
room operators have to decide what to offer. It seems 4.5” is becoming more common with so many Diamond tables
populating pool rooms. Sierra Billiards, where I mostly play, the 9’ tables are evenly split with 4.25” and 4.5” CP sizes.

 

[kingwang]

To me pool halls definitely should not go to 4” pockets or even close. Those tables are playable on the WNT because (a) you have elite players playing; and (b) the balls and cloth are brand new. If you got Filler and Gorst to play on 4” pockets at your local pool hall with cloth with 6 months of play and dirty balls, the game would look like one pocket. I see some balls slide in on the WNT that wouldn’t go on the 4.5” Diamonds I play on with old cloth and balls.

My club has two tables with 4" pockets and I can assure you that the pros that visit have no trouble making the game look effortless on those tables. It definitely does not look like one pocket. You're giving way too much credit to a measly 0.25" difference.

 

[maha]

yes pro pool is more like a chess match than before with the new rules and equipment.

i would watch a good chess match but no one puts them on tv, i wonder why? and i cant name more than one or two of the worlds best players.
right now none.

and in chess the best player almost always wins. so you know the outcome before the game is even played.
just like when i match up for bigger money at pool.

 

[VVP]

When player's have to duck fairly mundane shots because the pockets too small is not fun to watch. It becomes 'cinch' pool because there's so little room to cheat the pocket. To me the 'snookerization' of pool is not good.

Not sure what kind of marketing research these pool promoters do, but I think there has to be 99.9999% agreement that it is brutal to watch pro players ducking the Predator ARC side pocket. Hopefully, Predator will use good sense and redesign that pocket. Granted that you cannot satisfy everyone, but to me, the need to redesign that side pocket is a no-brainer.

 

[Island Drive]

My club has two tables with 4" pockets and I can assure you that the pros that visit have no trouble making the game look effortless on those tables. It definitely does not look like one pocket. You're giving way too much credit to a measly 0.25" difference.

No room owner will have Diamond bar tables with the pro cut 4 1/4 pockets for their regulars, who spend money on liquor and food.
Those patrons pay the rent and the last thing a room owner wants is player frustration, where no one can ever run more than two or 3 balls.
4'' pockets on a dirty or worn out table in humid conditions it's not pool.
That's why Bowling hasn't changed the lane size, or the PGA hasn't made the cup smaller.

 

[Jaden]

No room owner will have Diamond bar tables with the pro cut 4 1/4 pockets for their regulars, who spend money on liquor and foodk.
Those patrons pay the rent and the last thing a room owner wants is player frustration, where no one can ever run more than two or 3 balls.
4'' pockets on a dirty or worn out table in humid conditions it's not pool.
That's why Bowling hasn't changed the lane size, or the PGA hasn't made the cup smaller.

I promise you if every bowler starts bowling 300 every other game, they'll make changes.

 

[The Old Jaybird]

To me pool halls definitely should not go to 4” pockets or even close. Those tables are playable on the WNT because (a) you have elite players playing; and (b) the balls and cloth are brand new. If you got Filler and Gorst to play on 4” pockets at your local pool hall with cloth with 6 months of play and dirty balls, the game would look like one pocket. I see some balls slide in on the WNT that wouldn’t go on the 4.5” Diamonds I play on with old cloth and balls.

I concur completely. My T shirt I have on is 15 years old and my balls are 78.

 

[uk_9_ball_convert]

No room owner will have Diamond bar tables with the pro cut 4 1/4 pockets for their regulars, who spend money on liquor and foodk.
Those patrons pay the rent and the last thing a room owner wants is player frustration, where no one can ever run more than two or 3 balls.
4'' pockets on a dirty or worn out table in humid conditions it's not pool.
That's why Bowling hasn't changed the lane size, or the PGA hasn't made the cup smaller.

All golf courses that host pro tournaments have basically been massively lengthened and made much more challenging as pro golfers (possibly partially due to equipment) are so much better now. I remember courses talking about Tiger proofing the course when Tiger Woods was first on the scene and hitting ridiculously low scores.

My local club is 4.1" pockets and always packed. Though I suppose because most people will have played snooker or English pool first they will be thinking of them as the easy tables. Generally the American pool tables is a mix of drunks playing 8 ball and people that take it seriously playing 9 ball. Anyone that takes playing 8 ball seriously are on the English pool tables.

 

[uk_9_ball_convert]

I might be in the minority but I enjoy the safety aspect of the game and I also think the top players are running out so often that pocket sizes being too small clearly isn't an issue. As Lowell said would be boring if the ran out every time

 

[Nature Boy]

The reason that the runout has become so difficult is the break rule. For three full WNT seasons, nine on the spot with a narrow break box has ended the days of players being able to play any kind of shape for the first shot after the break. Yes, they can still make the one in the side with cut break, but that is rarely enough to string many racks.

The 4 inch pockets are not the main reason there are fewer runout chances, and players have become more conservative in their play. Despite their suggestion that 9ball is the better game, Matchroom has made 9ball more like 10ball by stifling some of the offense and robbing the game of, what I believe, is a more fan-friendly pace of play.

As I told you at Derby, I think the break should be from something similar to the snooker D with the one on the spot, and figure out what rack works best from there to encourage big breaks again.

I normally hate comparing sports, but just like a long drive in golf, a big, or good break, should be rewarded. How much is in the eyes of the beholder.

And you never hear the guy that is making the wing ball regularly complain....

 

[straightline]

So Indian not arrow

except pockets.

 

[Cue Alchemist]

when ever these type of threads come up, I have said this for years, its the way its played. Take out the pocket size for a minute.... The risk taking in favour of safety shots. I think would still be the same, if the pockets were a bit bigger. Players today, rather have it easy, than go for the big shot. Its more a mind set now. 9 ball is boring as hell. not to mention the pace is slowest its ever been. No matter what is said, there will always be die hard fans of the modern game. They say this is the best, most exciting time in pool.
I agree with maha, The influence of the equipment is the biggest change I've noticed in the last 7 years, everyone thinking they can go up a level with the latest cue.

 

[straightline]

You have a genre that's flailing for attention - participation even. Yeah must be the equipment.

Meanwhile on the winners side, whoa, players that have embraced the concept of precision; actually learned their margins ;

 

[nataddrho]

Letting European minds make the pockets this small hurts the game/sport and the audience

Americans have been using the “fast and loose with personality” excuse for far too long, trying to cover up their impatience for learning proper fundamentals to begin with because it is hard work that requires discipline. They don’t want to be bad at something for a long time while they are learning, so instead use a culture of woofing, bravado and showmanship as makeup. All of the complaining here reminds me of an entitlement death throw.

I prefer chess, robots and excellence over Monday morning quarterback fodder.

 

[Jaden]

Americans have been using the “fast and loose with personality” excuse for far too long, trying to cover up their impatience for learning proper fundamentals to begin with because it is hard work that requires discipline. They don’t want to be bad at something for a long time while they are learning, so instead use a culture of woofing, bravado and showmanship as makeup. All of the complaining here reminds me of an entitlement death throw.

I prefer chess, robots and excellence over Monday morning quarterback fodder.

Don't speak for all Americans, I've been shouting to have 4" pockets for 20 years.