Pro Pool Players Can't Make A Living!

[krupa]

I don't think I'm any more important than the next guy! Perhaps you forgot what I've already repeated; that being...this isn't rocket science and the answers are as obvious as gravity!

I'm very curious to see other's opinions and that is why I keep waiting. I'm hoping that at least a few people will bring momentum to the obvious problem without me having to say it because I am in fact...a nobody in regards to those who can really make a difference.

Hey Banks...I apologize for coming across as condescending. To be honest with you...I am about as tired of this problem as can be put in words so I don't doubt that some of that frustration is surfacing!

I'm beginning to believe you're just a troll. The evidence is as plain as gravity:

- Starting a thread on a topic that has been beat to death 100 times over
- Repeating the same post "the answers are as obvious as gravity"
- Hinting that you will eventually bless us with the Answer
- Basically making posts with no substance that keeps the thread near the top of the page

If you really wanted a legitimate discussion, you would have started with your Answer and we would be discussing a potentially good idea... though given the fact that you have repeated the same post a few times, I'm guessing you don't have many original ideas.

 

[slide13]

somebody wake me when the OP actually adds something to the discussion rather than just offering veiled insults at everyone for not being able to read his mind about what he thinks the actual problem is that is "obvious as gravity" (which is not really that obvious at all when you think about it...it was quite the brilliant mind that realized and defined gravity....the results of gravity are obvious, but the knowledge of what gravity is and how it works are much less so)

In my oppinion...the reason why pool is where it is....other than a very small segment of the population (namely those people who spend their times here on pool forums or many hours in the pool halls) nobody gives a damn about pool and you couldn't talk them into watching it on tv even if they didn't have 100 other channels to choose from. Pool isn't golf, pool is never going to be golf. When I go to the golf course I see a hundred of people on a Saturday afternoon. When I go to the pool hall there are usually 3-4. If you don't know the game pool on tv is boring...it looks like a bunch of easy shots to those who don't understand the work that goes into making them look that way.

 

[ronscuba]

I watched some of the pro matches. I am from NYC and get to see pro's play all the time, so it's not a big deal to me.

I am new to pool having started 3 yrs ago, but I am hooked. I hope something changes and pool interest turns around and grows in popularity. Seeing pool halls close is not a good sign.

 

[JB Cases]

The answer to my questions are as obvious as gravity but because I am curious about the opinions of others, I would like to put these questions up for your consideration.

Why is it that the professional pool players make so little money?

1. because they allow themselves to be used any way a promoter wants to use them.
2. because they have no organization.
3. because pool is not a mainstream television sport.
4. because promoters cannot make any real money promoting pool tournaments.
5. because average pool fans won't pay to attend pool tournaments (with few exceptions)

Why are the purses for...even the big tournaments, so small compared to golf for instance?

See list above.

Why is it that unless you are in the top 10 players in the world or so, you are questioning how much longer you can afford to travel around and play in tournaments?

Because the expenses are the same for all 128 players but the prize money is not. Pool is in essence one of the more brutal sports to play because you have really be on top and stay on top to make enough to keep going. The very top players also attract the majority of the sponsorship money.

The upside though is that it is relatively CHEAP to train and get as good as you humanly can get. So if a player stays inconsistent then it's their own fault.

If a golf touring pro finishes about 25th in a weekly tournament, he is going to make about $50,000.00 to $60,000.00. The winner of a tournament is going to make about $1,200,000.00.

Economy of scale. Bigger sports pay more.

Mika Immonen finished 4th at the Hard Times Open last month and made $900.00. Dennis Orcullo won the tournament and made $3,000.00.

Small event small money.

This is beyond sad! By the way, I don't have a whole lot of doubt that I am going to infuriate some people when I give my opinions but...I'll live with that!

Is is sad? People getting paid to play pool is sad? While Mika won $900 for fourth place the person who served him lunch brought him $250 for 40 hours of work. She doesn't get to jet around the world playing pool and getting paid for it.

When most of the world's population lives on a few dollars a day and has to work incredibly hard just to continue to exist some would say that paying people to play games is a travesty. Paying people millions to entertain us while at the same time billions live on the edge of starvation is what's sad. Getting paid to play pool no matter what the amount is is a PRIVILEGE. One that pool players have earned because they demonstrate the highest skill at a game that millions of us love enough to support some of them full time. But we don't love it enough to forgo our own incomes to supply them with millions. We don't love it enough to pay $10,000 for a seat at the US Open.

Face it, pool is a fringe activity in a sea of competing ones. Perhaps the more relevant question is why isn't pool completely dead?

Because, at the end of the day it's a fascinating way to control matter in a confined space. One of the few ways we can enjoy applied physics through our hands even if we don't understand those physics. Because there is no age or physical barrier.

Thus the important thing is that enough of us love it enough to keep it alive enough to support those who love it enough to play it professionally.

 

[PINKLADY]

I'm beginning to believe you're just a troll. The evidence is as plain as gravity:

- Starting a thread on a topic that has been beat to death 100 times over
- Repeating the same post "the answers are as obvious as gravity"
- Hinting that you will eventually bless us with the Answer
- Basically making posts with no substance that keeps the thread near the top of the page

If you really wanted a legitimate discussion, you would have started with your Answer and we would be discussing a potentially good idea... though given the fact that you have repeated the same post a few times, I'm guessing you don't have many original ideas.

just for you, Honey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj3GH5myc3M

 

[BasementDweller]

It's the Packaging

Pool has always been packaged as an action sport. Even when pool was supposedly thriving in the 90's it was packaged this way. So the televised matches were always focused on the table and the balls alone. The commentators would endlessly talk about the next shot. Even today, the main focus of the commentary is guessing which ball is going to be pocketed next and where exactly the cue ball is going to land.

This is B-O-R-I-N-G to all but the most diehard fans -- if that even.

Pool needs to be packaged as a drama. Internet streaming has brought us a lot of really exciting pool, but with the increase of the internet streams what we are losing out on is the opportunity to tell a story. So the idea of turning pool into a great drama seems even further away than in the past.

Someone needs to bridge this divide. Matchroom does a good job of this every year with the Mosconi Cup. The story line is right there for them. It's the ageless US vs. THEM battle. Everybody can relate to this. Even if you don't understand anything about the game you can sense the amount of pressure the players are under when they are playing for their country. But when two top pros are just playing some random event somewhere there really isn't anything to grab the fan's attention. There's no story line. It's just pool. That's great when you are in the pool hall. There we all want it to just be about pool, but when it's something we are watching we have to be emotionally involved in it or it begins to seem completely pointless. Which, we all have to admit that pushing around a bunch of balls on a table is pretty pointless. There must be a reason that people play this stupid game. Capturing the why people play part is what's missing from most of the matches that I watch.

Of course turning every event into a drama of some sort is easier said than done and it's really easy for me to say it sitting on the sidelines too. So this is just my take on it. I find all the discussion very interesting because at some point someone will come along and turn this game into a profitable form of entertainment. When they do, I think they will use video as a means for telling a story and they will utilize today's HD technology to showcase the beauty of the game - capturing the balls colliding into one another and the chalk dust exploding as the cue ball is struck. They will pan up and capture the perspiration dripping off of a very anxious player's head as he is coming so close to capturing his life long dream of winning the U.S. Open.

I can see it now.

 

[krupa]

Pool has always been packaged as an action sport. Even when pool was supposedly thriving in the 90's it was packaged this way. So the televised matches were always focused on the table and the balls alone. The commentators would endlessly talk about the next shot. Even today, the main focus of the commentary is guessing which ball is going to be pocketed next and where exactly the cue ball is going to land.

This is B-O-R-I-N-G to all but the most diehard fans -- if that even.

Pool needs to be packaged as a drama. Internet streaming has brought us a lot of really exciting pool, but with the increase of the internet streams what we are losing out on is the opportunity to tell a story. So the idea of turning pool into a great drama seems even further away than in the past.

Someone needs to bridge this divide. Matchroom does a good job of this every year with the Mosconi Cup. The story line is right there for them. It's the ageless US vs. THEM battle. Everybody can relate to this. Even if you don't understand anything about the game you can sense the amount of pressure the players are under when they are playing for their country. But when two top pros are just playing some random event somewhere there really isn't anything to grab the fan's attention. There's no story line. It's just pool. That's great when you are in the pool hall. There we all want it to just be about pool, but when it's something we are watching we have to be emotionally involved in it or it begins to seem completely pointless. Which, we all have to admit that pushing around a bunch of balls on a table is pretty pointless. There must be a reason that people play this stupid game. Capturing the why people play part is what's missing from most of the matches that I watch.

Of course turning every event into a drama of some sort is easier said than done and it's really easy for me to say it sitting on the sidelines too. So this is just my take on it. I find all the discussion very interesting because at some point someone will come along and turn this game into a profitable form of entertainment. When they do, I think they will use video as a means for telling a story and they will utilize today's HD technology to showcase the beauty of the game - capturing the balls colliding into one another and the chalk dust exploding as the cue ball is struck. They will pan up and capture the perspiration dripping off of a very anxious player's head as he is coming so close to capturing his life long dream of winning the U.S. Open.

I can see it now.

Here's a paraphrase of something I said a long time ago.

If golf were shown like pool, you'd watch Tiger Woods and whoever plays with them play the entire course. You'd watch them talk to their caddies, select a club, hit the ball, and then you would watch them walk to the ball.

No one would watch this.

Instead, they have enough cameras in golf that they are constantly jumping to someone else on the course so there's constant "action".

Pool needs this. Cameras on most/some tables and cut it together so you're jumping around to whoever is shooting (or just shot) something worth looking at.

 

[ronscuba]

To prevent pool from dying, you need it to grow. What kind of people do we need to target ? Some will say, any kind of people is good since the pool numbers are steadily declining.

That being said, the topics for reality TV is all over the map. I think a traveling pool hustler would be watchable. Not exactly the image I would like pool to have, but better than having another of my local pool halls close due to lack of interest.

 

[TimKrazyMon]

I think it's real simple. Payouts are small because no big sponsors are investing in pool because there is no ROI. The reason there is no ROI is because fan viewership, be it TV/stream/in person, is paltry at best. If there is no one to se the sponsor's ads, why advertise?

These are real issues and they can be solved. How? Mainly, the pros need to get off their ass and do something. Show sponsors you are a partner in growing attendance and viewership. Do clinics for kids (for free! don't be dicks.) Sign autographs, engage the fans, and quit acting like the entitled snobs that you have been for the last 20+ years. No sponsor is going to just throw you $$ because you want them to. Cleaning up pool's image couldn't hurt either. The hustling and gambling and colluding (Lebron's TOC win for example) do a great deal of damage in attracting new fans or sponsors, so let's lose it.

so, to all the pros, i simply say this: growing the sport is as much your job as playing is, so how about you do your job?

 

[slide13]

Part of me thinks we need to look to snooker and see what they're doing right over there, there is plenty of money in snooker for the top players. Then again nobody has ever succeeded in really getting Americans to watch soccer (other than once every 4 years for the World Cup) so maybe some things just don't translate across cultural lines.

 

[jburkm002]

For those who like to watch pool. Do you like to see big names go at it or are you mainly interested in the game itself? Even if the level of play is the same.

 

[JB Cases]

Part of me thinks we need to look to snooker and see what they're doing right over there, there is plenty of money in snooker for the top players. Then again nobody has ever succeeded in really getting Americans to watch soccer (other than once every 4 years for the World Cup) so maybe some things just don't translate across cultural lines.

Snooker is light years ahead of pool in both organization and public appeal.

Snooker had something pool never did, government funded national television support. The BBC took on snooker and provided all of the production and ancillary shows such as Pot Black for dozens of years. Thus Snooker was in front of millions of people weekly. The best snooker players were then elevated to stardom and the viewing public was comprised of millions who wanted to be snooker champions thus insuring an annually growing crop of dedicated players.

All that said while snooker certainly supports more players than pool does the lower ranks also struggle quite a bit to make it. Even as popular as snooker is in England it is still small compared to soccer (football).

 

[JB Cases]

To prevent pool from dying, you need it to grow. What kind of people do we need to target ? Some will say, any kind of people is good since the pool numbers are steadily declining.

That being said, the topics for reality TV is all over the map. I think a traveling pool hustler would be watchable. Not exactly the image I would like pool to have, but better than having another of my local pool halls close due to lack of interest.

No it's possible to keep pool from dying without growth. Any organism can find an acceptable level to simply exist.

Pool could use a tv/movie shot in the arm. in the last 60 years the two biggest boosts were following big hollywood movies with major star power in them.

But that's not likely to happen again.

 

[macguy]

I think it's real simple. Payouts are small because no big sponsors are investing in pool because there is no ROI. The reason there is no ROI is because fan viewership, be it TV/stream/in person, is paltry at best. If there is no one to se the sponsor's ads, why advertise?

These are real issues and they can be solved. How? Mainly, the pros need to get off their ass and do something. Show sponsors you are a partner in growing attendance and viewership. Do clinics for kids (for free! don't be dicks.) Sign autographs, engage the fans, and quit acting like the entitled snobs that you have been for the last 20+ years. No sponsor is going to just throw you $$ because you want them to. Cleaning up pool's image couldn't hurt either. The hustling and gambling and colluding (Lebron's TOC win for example) do a great deal of damage in attracting new fans or sponsors, so let's lose it.

so, to all the pros, i simply say this: growing the sport is as much your job as playing is, so how about you do your job?

You left out one big link in your progression of what pool needs to reach mainstream, Pool rooms. In most cities and towns around the country pool does not even exist. Before anything can happen on any kind of professional basis, you need to have an existing sport that people care about.

Doing clinics for kids does not do much if there is no where for them to even play. If you took a poll on here you would find many don't have a real pool room in their town. They may play at home or on a bar league on bar tables or travel miles just to find a place to play.

Not that many years ago there was a pool room in every city and town in the US with few exceptions. I know because I used to travel and play/hustle. Pool was everywhere and people playing were everywhere. You would open the phone book and there would be like 10 places to check out in almost any town. From bowling alleys to nice free standing rooms.

I think one of the enemies of the pool room was just the amount of good quality sq footage required to house a pool room. A pool room needs a pretty good sized building in a decent location. Pool rooms just got priced out of the market.

Without the basis of a pool room and the venues to play the game the sport ceases to exist and that is almost where we are now except for the bar game. The real sport as it had been for over 150 years or more is now almost gone.

That is just a fact. It may not seem like that to someone who is lucky enough to live near one of the few remaining pool rooms, but for the majority of the country it is the reality. The classic game of pool almost doesn't exist any more.

Until the actual game itself makes a come back, and that may not take place in our lifetimes, there is no such thing as professional pool. This debate is moot.

 

[cardiac kid]

Snooker is light years ahead of pool in both organization and public appeal.

Snooker had something pool never did, government funded national television support. The BBC took on snooker and provided all of the production and ancillary shows such as Pot Black for dozens of years. Thus Snooker was in front of millions of people weekly. The best snooker players were then elevated to stardom and the viewing public was comprised of millions who wanted to be snooker champions thus insuring an annually growing crop of dedicated players.

All that said while snooker certainly supports more players than pool does the lower ranks also struggle quite a bit to make it. Even as popular as snooker is in England it is still small compared to soccer (football).

John,

What part of the success of Snooker is the ability to gamble Internationally (on-line) on the matches? From the press it received, the last cheating scandel in Snooker was a very public thing. Over here, the side bets and throwing matches are treated as an every day occurrence. No big deal. Perhaps that is why American professional pool is no big deal? I wonder what would happen if Ronnie O'Sullivan decided he needed to be somewhere else an hour before one of his matches and forfeited?

Lyn

 

[336Robin]

Women

Women....if you had more women involved there would automatically be more men interested.

 

[efirkey]

Here's a paraphrase of something I said a long time ago.

If golf were shown like pool, you'd watch Tiger Woods and whoever plays with them play the entire course. You'd watch them talk to their caddies, select a club, hit the ball, and then you would watch them walk to the ball.

No one would watch this.

Instead, they have enough cameras in golf that they are constantly jumping to someone else on the course so there's constant "action".

Pool needs this. Cameras on most/some tables and cut it together so you're jumping around to whoever is shooting (or just shot) something worth looking at.

I agree 100%. The production needs to get way better.

If you watch American Ninja they have contestant bios before every contestant makes their attempt on the course. This makes me actually care if the contestant does well or not. I think pool needs more interviews and bios during matches.

I also don't need to see the racker rack for several minutes or more every game.

They had a speed tournament on television not long ago and they had two games going on side by side that they cut back and forth to. This made it a lot more interesting to watch. Albeit some times they didn't show a shot I would have liked to have seen shot, but I was definitely entertained.

 

[jaetee]

So many things wrong with professional pool, and so many of them pointed out in this thread...

-- Lack of sponsorship (comes from lack of viewership... which is the chicken vs. the egg?)
-- Pool players have a generally bad reputation as a sub-culture among mainstream society. (movies glorify hustlers & gamblers, and the easy score)
-- Questionable character traits among the game's "elite"
-- The game itself doesn't lend itself to mass viewership. Only few tournaments ever happen which provide adequate seating to accommodate a large crowd. And those aren't televised, so no growing exposure.
-- Fragmentation among the many disparate governing bodies.
-- It's not an Olympic sport (much for the lack of unified governing bodies)
-- Boring for the uninitiated to watch.
-- There are so many more things to do (and watch) nowadays, when compared to pool's heyday (which I believe was in the early 20th century, not in the 80's & 90's as many suggest).
-- Handicap league participation triumphs over non-handicap league participation, no league feeder system into professional ranks.

 

[jburkm002]

When was pool the most successful? How many pros made a good living at its peak? Or was it as it will most likely always be. The best players make a good living. Can't pay everyone who calls themselves a pro. Have to win to get paid. So like golfers did to catch up to TIGER Woods. They got better at their profession.

 

[macguy]

Women....if you had more women involved there would automatically be more men interested.

That is always said, but in what respect? Are guys going to go to a pool room to pick up chicks? (Showing my age)
How would this be done, why would women care about playing pool except maybe to meet guys.
Pool needs to again become a part of the American experience but how do you do that.

It almost requires being brought back from the dead. I remember there being pool tables everywhere. There used to be a table in the doctors lounge in our local hospital.

Pool tables almost subliminally decorated the background of the US. From collages to military bases a pool table was regarded and a good activity to pass some time and may be found anywhere. Somehow this changed.