Pro Pool Players Can't Make A Living!

[336Robin]

My bad, didn't see this before..

Then somebody should open a room if there's the demand.

Are you next saying that the APA should do something else to help the pool rooms besides providing league players? What's the room owner's job? Sit on his butt, pour coffee and smoke cigarettes?

Just like everybody on here plays shortstop speed as an average league player, everybody on here demands something be done for pool yet won't do anything themselves. I've got a mediocre job and I'm still trying to make things happen. It's the "what have you done for me lately?" stuff like I see in this thread that makes me question my desire.

There is no point in arguing whose job is what. What Im saying is when the pool rooms close down....Pool League is going to have it tough finding a place to play so maybe they should think about that and weigh alternatives to having to find another place.

Doing something for room owners who allow them to use tables might be a good place to start.

 

[Banks]

John,

Careful with that. Most members of our AZ community can't handle the truth. Regardless of what Jack says. Although I've taken the Summer off from my APA play, I'll be back in the Fall for two more sessions.

Incidentally, knew there was another reason I liked you. You evidentally love the same MOOsic I do. By the way, which one is Pink?

Lyn

Lol, they would've loved to have gotten their hands on him, wouldn't they? Of course, it would've been nothing more than a circus act. It was pretty cool listening to all of their solo stuff(ok, maybe just some), to hear what each brought to band.

Btw, I'm still trying to figure out how I can help you get a couple Diamond tables up that way. I've got an idea, but it'll be a few months.

I am new to pool having joined my 1st league 3yrs ago (BCA).

Of all the current active pool players, how many are currently or have in the past played leagues ? How many became regular pool players because of league ?

Is it possible to grow league play to increase #'s and in turn grow the industry ?

I've seen many threads bad mouthing leagues, but where would pool be today without them ?

I became a regular player because of league(APA). Most of my friends that I hang out with can say the same.

 

[onepocketron]

Look at snooker across the pond and you will see everything pool is not here in the US. Barry has made himself as well as the players millionaires. It's like a mania in many countries now that he has marketed the game in the way that he has. It's a world wide deal now.

 

[NitPicker]

In theory what youre saying sounds right but at the time of the Hustler and Color of Money there weren't all the digital distractions we have today. Its likely a Color of Money would have a neglible effect on the industry with todays environment. There are a bunch of movies to go out and see. How many of them have that effect anymore.

The only thing I think will work is some personal marketing initiatives but that's just me. If you don't capture the attention and do something to keep it there is just so much out there I think you easily get lost in the shuffle.

Is there any denying that those movies worked? Why, do you think? It is a digital age...which is why a digital product makes sense. I mean, there is now a show for arm wrestling of all things. And reality shows are weekly events, unlike a single movie. We're also talking real people, real stories...something everyone can relate to. Not just a fictional story about a hustler. Do you have any idea how many duck calls have been purchased because of that damn tv show? How many people watch pool on YouTube regularly? I think we need to look at the digital age as vehicle, not an obstacle...and that goes with pretty much anything in today's world.

I think the personal marketing has it's place but the marketing of the game as a whole has to be much broader and that's going to be far too much for any "personal" initiative. There needs to be a more unifying effort. The message first must be broadcasted to the masses to create the market. Then through personal efforts, market share is captured.

I'm just talking about what will help generate mass interest publically...not what will keep people coming back to a particular location.

 

[336Robin]

Is there any denying that those movies worked? Why, do you think? It is a digital age...which is why a digital product makes sense. I mean, there is now a show for arm wrestling of all things. And reality shows are weekly events, unlike a single movie. We're also talking real people, real stories...something everyone can relate to. Not just a fictional story about a hustler. Do you have any idea how many duck calls have been purchased because of that damn tv show? How many people watch pool on YouTube regularly? I think we need to look at the digital age as vehicle, not an obstacle...and that goes with pretty much anything in today's world.

I think the personal marketing has it's place but the marketing of the game as a whole has to be much broader and that's going to be far too much for any "personal" initiative. There needs to be a more unifying effort. The message first must be broadcasted to the masses to create the market. Then through personal efforts, market share is captured.

I'm just talking about what will help generate mass interest publically...not what will keep people coming back to a particular location.

I understand what youre saying but lets pretend I agree with you completely....so now who is going to pay for it? That's why I favor Pool Clubs and personal initiatives.

If I were a room owner Id want to get new people through the door that's the bottom line. The cheapest way possible but I don't own a room and as long as there is alcohol I doubt many will go on the recruitment band wagon.

 

[westcoast]

This is all just my opinion. The standard tournament format is pretty much tried and failed and that leads to people saying its not a spectator sport. It could be if presented differently. ESPN regularly shows stuff like spelling bees, hunting and fishing shows, competitive cup stacking etc that is about as boring as it gets unless you have a personal interest in those activities. So IMO the "not a spectator sport" logic fails. It has more to do with how its presented and money behind it.
This is where I think IPT and bonus ball had a good base concept, and I mentioned similar things years ago. You have to have a hook, something to get people not only interested in watching that "episode", but something to make them watch next week, and the week after and the week after. Having geographic teams gives people something they can get behind and root for. Adding something like a season concept and a points race gives viewers something they can follow through to a conclusion as opposed to the one time tournament format of heres your winner. If you can get a series of point based tournaments going based throughout the country it adds the "coming soon to a town near you" aspect. Something like a Denver 10 Ball Classic, the Florida 8 Ball masters etc etc etc. You build interest and give viewers something to look forward to and root for. Combine that concept with a corporate sponsor such as Budweiser and some flashy editing and sets/logos etc then IMO you have something thats sellable to the public. Pool has never been packaged correctly IMO. Its a marketing problem vs the product itself.
From there you can tie advertising amateur pool leagues and instruction into the program. Basically laying the groundwork for growth of not only the game, but the tv product as well. One of the big reasons poker took off was the anybody could win theory. Well, thats not true, it takes more than luck to win a WSOP bracelet. But look how much exposure the game got, and all the poker rooms and poker tournaments that popped up all over the place. Its in the marketing and salesmanship of the product. Pool can do the same thing, but as a game, tight pockets where the pros are reluctant to try a runout isnt going to work.
Then you have the worldwide game to factor into the mix. China is coming on strong, the Philippines have been a hot bed for a long time. The Europeans have a strong field..... The possibilities are there for success, but the old white and black print generic box that says "POOL" on the front of it wont sell. JMHO
Chuck

I agree that having teams representing regions like Bonus Ball would help with marketing

Having a season with a culminating event as would help. Some type of build up

I actually thought Bonus Ball was quite interesting and entertaining. The table and the game were challenging enough for the pros that it held my attention. Also, having a time limit imposed was helpful

 

[NitPicker]

336Robin, that's the big question: Who will pay for it? Although I'm not completely sure, I am positive it will have to be a collaborative effort. There are companies and organizations that are currently profitable, and would benefit greatly from a larger market. I think there would be personal interest in funding also.

As for owning a pool room, I also think a pool club, perhaps even private is a good avenue to pursue. Talk to people at Brunswick or Simonis...they will tell you the market is currently not in pool halls which are closing, but rather in people's homes.

 

[cardiac kid]

I am new to pool having joined my 1st league 3yrs ago (BCA).

Of all the current active pool players, how many are currently or have in the past played leagues ? How many became regular pool players because of league ?

Is it possible to grow league play to increase #'s and in turn grow the industry ?

I've seen many threads bad mouthing leagues, but where would pool be today without them ?

Ron,

It's whats been said on AZ for quite a while. If it weren't for league play, pool would be DEAD! Sorry for that but it's the truth. Whether coming from leagues playing on 4.5 x 9 or 3.5 x 7, the growth of the game lays right there. Think of all the initials. APA, ACS, VNEA, NAPA, BCAPL, USAPL and others. Add in all the in-house leagues. Put them all together and there are millions of people playing pool. Just not the "professional" kind some grieve over. Long live league pool!!!

As a bonus, league pool does one other major contribution to the game. Who buys all those cues made by Joss, Schon, Mcdermott and others. Not the pro's. They get theirs for free. How about the gloves, extensions, shirts, chalkers, jackets, dvd's and all the other pool related paraphernalia we buy? How many pro's buy pool tables for their homes? The game needs us far more than the small group of "what's in it for me" folks.

One last thing. The majority of pool rooms within a hundred miles of Rochester would be closed today if it weren't for the conversion of players to those hated small pool tables. Don't know if it's the same all around the country. My guess is it is!

Lyn

 

[336Robin]

I agree that having teams representing regions like Bonus Ball would help with marketing

Having a season with a culminating event as would help. Some type of build up

I actually thought Bonus Ball was quite interesting and entertaining. The table and the game were challenging enough for the pros that it held my attention. Also, having a time limit imposed was helpful

I don't have a lot of time but did watch a Bonus Ball match here and there and I thought it had some redeeming factors but the game seemed a bit complicated, bit you are right there were some good things about it. I just hope that gets remembered.

 

[336Robin]

Ron,

It's whats been said on AZ for quite a while. If it weren't for league play, pool would be DEAD! Sorry for that but it's the truth. Whether coming from leagues playing on 4.5 x 9 or 3.5 x 7, the growth of the game lays right there. Think of all the initials. APA, ACS, VNEA, NAPA, BCAPL, USAPL and others. Add in all the in-house leagues. Put them all together and there are millions of people playing pool. Just not the "professional" kind some grieve over. Long live league pool!!!

As a bonus, league pool does one other major contribution to the game. Who buys all those cues made by Joss, Schon, Mcdermott and others. Not the pro's. They get theirs for free. How about the gloves, extensions, shirts, chalkers, jackets, dvd's and all the other pool related paraphernalia we buy? How many pro's buy pool tables for their homes? The game needs us far more than the small group of "what's in it for me" folks.

One last thing. The majority of pool rooms within a hundred miles of Rochester would be closed today if it weren't for the conversion of players to those hated small pool tables. Don't know if it's the same all around the country. My guess is it is!

Lyn

I agree Lyn as soon as I get retired Im going back to playing Wednesday night house league at my place. I like the socialization, its fun what is not to like about Pool League Pool?

I just think there could be a way to link Pool Leagues up with a renaissance of pool and if Pool Leagues would promote a Pool Club initiative that would bring more people into the Rooms they would in turn benefit from having more available players and more teams. Everyone would win.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I agree Lyn as soon as I get retired Im going back to playing Wednesday night house league at my place. I like the socialization, its fun what is not to like about Pool League Pool?

I just think there could be a way to link Pool Leagues up with a renaissance of pool and if Pool Leagues would promote a Pool Club initiative that would bring more people into the Rooms they would in turn benefit from having more available players and more teams. Everyone would win.

Why not embrace the PROFESSIONALS??? How cool would it be to have Johnny Archer on your APA team. Talk about the HATERS coming out of the wood work on that one. So, many letters to the head office they would have to set up a separate P.O. Box for the complaints.

The problem is a failure to integrate the professionals into the league and utilize them for growth and marketing. I can not understand why a League owner is not sponsoring 1 local pro player each and helping them get exposure for the league and doing weekly training sessions to EARN the money during down tournament weeks.

It can be done just league owners are TOO cheap in my opinion!!!

KD

 

[TimKrazyMon]

Why not embrace the PROFESSIONALS??? How cool would it be to have Johnny Archer on your APA team. Talk about the HATERS coming out of the wood work on that one. So, many letters to the head office they would have to set up a separate P.O. Box for the complaints.

The problem is a failure to integrate the professionals into the league and utilize them for growth and marketing. I can not understand why a League owner is not sponsoring 1 local pro player each and helping them get exposure for the league and doing weekly training sessions to EARN the money during down tournament weeks.

It can be done just league owners are TOO cheap in my opinion!!!

KD

I know for a while that Charlotte APA sponsored Kelly Fisher. I don't play down there so I don't have an idea as to the impact it had, if any, on the membership.

 

[ronscuba]

Why not embrace the PROFESSIONALS??? How cool would it be to have Johnny Archer on your APA team. Talk about the HATERS coming out of the wood work on that one. So, many letters to the head office they would have to set up a separate P.O. Box for the complaints.

The problem is a failure to integrate the professionals into the league and utilize them for growth and marketing. I can not understand why a League owner is not sponsoring 1 local pro player each and helping them get exposure for the league and doing weekly training sessions to EARN the money during down tournament weeks.

It can be done just league owners are TOO cheap in my opinion!!!

KD

Earl Strickland, Mika, Tony Robles, have played in the NYC Amsterdam Billiards BCA team 9 ball league. The local pros here definitely contribute to grow pool.

 

[Banks]

Why not embrace the PROFESSIONALS??? How cool would it be to have Johnny Archer on your APA team. Talk about the HATERS coming out of the wood work on that one. So, many letters to the head office they would have to set up a separate P.O. Box for the complaints.

The problem is a failure to integrate the professionals into the league and utilize them for growth and marketing. I can not understand why a League owner is not sponsoring 1 local pro player each and helping them get exposure for the league and doing weekly training sessions to EARN the money during down tournament weeks.

It can be done just league owners are TOO cheap in my opinion!!!

KD

Same old argument.. "What can you do for me?"

Hardly any of them ask when they can do to make themselves worth it.

 

[Banks]

Let me say it another way..

You've got this here forum. There are quite a few people on here with enough money to start something, some with enough to start big things.. really big things. Yet, they don't.. why is that? Heck, some of them even have pro friends. Again.. why don't they do something? You know the answer, but it's just so easy to point the finger elsewhere.

 

[336Robin]

Let me say it another way..

You've got this here forum. There are quite a few people on here with enough money to start something, some with enough to start big things.. really big things. Yet, they don't.. why is that? Heck, some of them even have pro friends. Again.. why don't they do something? You know the answer, but it's just so easy to point the finger elsewhere.

Playing devils advocate.

If I had a ton of money to throw at pool I would want to see grassroots support. I wouldn't want to do something promotional that cost a ton and nothing came back.

That's why big money people are sitting on their hands. We aren't getting new people in so promotional money spent on pool is a waste in the opinion of big companies.

My hopes is that some of the big pool entities will sponsor something that trys to recruit new people into the sport because they have a vested interest in doing so.

I just think much more than that in the way of an expectation is just out of the question. Money spent is money invested that needs to come back.

 

[Banks]

Playing devils advocate.

If I had a ton of money to throw at pool I would want to see grassroots support. I wouldn't want to do something promotional that cost a ton and nothing came back.

That's why big money people are sitting on their hands. We aren't getting new people in so promotional money spent on pool is a waste in the opinion of big companies.

My hopes is that some of the big pool entities will sponsor something that trys to recruit new people into the sport because they have a vested interest in doing so.

I just think much more than that in the way of an expectation is just out of the question. Money spent is money invested that needs to come back.

Same thing as above. Wait for somebody else to do something for people that don't do anything for anyone.

It's like a lot of the old pool halls - spending as little as possible because they don't want to spent a lot to make a lot. They'd rather not spend anything and make a little. Most of the time, that's a recipe for failure. Just like hoping that somebody will just willy-nilly throw money at pro pool.

Again, I'm a desk jockey with basically a data entry job, but I'm still managing to do something in my area. What's everybody else's excuse?

 

[336Robin]

Same thing as above. Wait for somebody else to do something for people that don't do anything for anyone.

It's like a lot of the old pool halls - spending as little as possible because they don't want to spent a lot to make a lot. They'd rather not spend anything and make a little. Most of the time, that's a recipe for failure. Just like hoping that somebody will just willy-nilly throw money at pro pool.

Again, I'm a desk jockey with basically a data entry job, but I'm still managing to do something in my area. What's everybody else's excuse?

You seem to equate not throwing big money at pool as not caring. Money is'talways required if you give something to it that tangible.

 

[bdorman]

Would someone please list the "big company, big money" companies in the pool industry?

Brunswick? They'd sell their pool division if anyone was dumb enough to buy it. Brunswick is focused on its Recreational Marine (boats and motors) and Fitness Equipment divisions that are growing. Bowling is dying and pool is dead. No money there.

Diamond? They intelligently bought their way into the industry by providing tournament tables at breakeven or at a loss, just to get the awareness. Smart move, especially while Brunswick ignored the industry. But Diamond doesn't have millions of dollars to throw at promoting pool.

Pool is a small-dollar industry. They only way to grow it is locally; brick by brick. Leagues. Social play. Have fun playing pool. -- All the things we love to hate.

 

[Banks]

You seem to equate not throwing big money at pool as not caring. Money is'talways required if you give something to it that tangible.

No, I'm saying that hall owners need to pull up their panties and invest in their business if they want it to turn into something. Having a business is not giving anything tangible if it doesn't make any money. Even if you put on a pro event at a hall, if that hall is not making a profit normally, nobody's going to think doing what they do is a good idea.