pro taper question

[rhncue]

Dear Sheldon,

I agree with your descriptions. I have also read Bob's books and sell them at my pool hall. If you would re read my threads you will find that I described deflection in reference to the path of cue ball and it's effect concerning the perceived hit or aim point from a players perspective. The more meat you take off the shaft the more deflection or cue ball squirt you will acquire.

I am a 3 cushion billiards player and this is one of the elementary things you must understand to progress in that discipline because we sometimes use up to 3 tips of english off of center ball. The shaft taper is a variable of the cue ball deflection with table foundation, cue tip, ferrule, shaft wood density, stroke, cloth friction coefficiency, temperature and humidity also playing their part.

This is the reason that billiards shafts are built with a stiff conical taper with more spine than a pool cue. If you gave a billiards champion a skinny pool shaft with a super pro taper, they would never make a small ball natural without first practicing with it for accommodation. The power of the stroke would be more critical in making a shot.

The only time I refer to deflection concerning shafts is when I have them between centers on a lathe and the tool or router is exerting a 90 degree force causing the wood to defect off a straight line. This is one of the reasons why cue makers make very light cuts or passes as they get closer to the final dimension.

I agree with you about the fact that many players are confused about the physics of pool and the term deflection and how it applies therein.

Thanks,

Rick Geschrey

I believe you are totally mistaken in your assumption and this is why: The last 5 inches of the shaft is what we are concerned with when deflection is being considered in a pool cue for moving 6 oz. cue balls. Once past this 5 inch length the weight or stiffness makes little difference. A snooker cue that is a European taper and much stiffer than a pool cue still deflects less because the front of the shaft is so much smaller, hence, lighter. In billiards the balls are much larger and heavier so that a normal pool shaft making contact is just way to whippy and can't cope. The Billiard shaft although it is very stiff, which is needed because of the weight of the balls is still usually pretty small on the front end, especially considering the weight of the ball it is about to contact. I'm willing to bet that your billiard shaft, which may deflect less when contacting a billiard ball will deflect a pool ball much more than a normal shaft will. Also, if your billiard shafts last 5 inch was comparative to the rest of the shaft as a pool shaft is it would deflect comparatively.

Dick

 

[pdcue]

Not true, unless you define deflection very differently than most people do.

IMHO - he is talking about deflection of the SHAFT
which is what everyone ment by deflection except
Robert Moooooooochieeeee, who apparently thought
reversing the definition would be convient.

Dale

 

[scdiveteam]

Experiment

Hi,

Put a piece of chalk on the head rail and turn it so the corner is facing you showing the position of a diamond. Then take a 13 mm pool shaft with a pro taper and aim at the chalk, put 2 tips of english and stroke the ball hard at the equator. Notice where the cue ball hits the rail. Do this several times until you get an average idea of the hit point on the rail.

Then do the same thing using a 12 mm skinny shaft with a long super pro taper. The hit point on the rail should be father away from the chalk due to squirt factor with the shinny shaft.

When applying english to the ball the size of the tip is a factor but not a big factor. The difference between a nickle and a dime is very close. As the tip contacts the cue ball when english is applied, the contact point is the side radius of the ball and side radius of the tip as you are not making a center ball hit at the equator.

When you impart stroke to the cue the shaft bends at the split second that the ball is hit. I believe ( and I may be wrong on this ) that a slight torque effect happens at the tip contact point from the bending of that shaft. Because the tip is softer than the ball and has chalk, the tip gives a little and due to this compression, the tip stays on the ball for a fraction of a second longer longer than the impact of two ball for example. I believe that it is in this fraction of a second that squirt takes place and the curved shaft is a big reason because it causes the tip angle of attack to skew slightly while it imparts spin to the ball.

If I got this wrong then I wish to get my mind right. I spent many hours playing 3 cushion with some of the the best players in Chicago and believe me, billiards players like to share information and shot systems with each other. Most of the stuff I learned seems to be a consensus that I kept hearing over and over from different parties.

There are shot systems that require the player to use squirt to execute rail doubling schemes and you practice the squirt stroke which are finessing shots. These shots would be a lot harder with a whippy shaft. The billiard shaft with a stiff conical taper and a big spine down the shaft produces less bend, thus more control of the squirt.

Thanks,

Rick Geschrey

 

[poolandpokerman]

I had Chris Nitti taper 2 of my shafts and I am very happy with them. I believe he starts with 12.75 and goes from there, if you don't mind sending him your shaft, I think you will be very happy, as I was. But the best thing is to call him and talk to him. Tom