Problem with running a table!! HELP.

E

EnragedCueBall

Registered
Ok, just to let you guys know, this is my first post so if im doing something wrong please advice. Anyways, on Wednesday i was at a tournament in Masters Billiards located in Queens, i saw people run tables like nothing, and by saying like nothing i mean really easy. My question is if i have a clean steady stroke and im able to pocket balls with no problem, why does it feel impossible for me to run a table.. Please help.

-Jerry B
 
welcome aboard Jerry!

so, how long have you been playing? i would venture to say the people you saw running out had been playing/practicing for years. it isnt just an easy thing to do, to break and run a rack of 9-Ball, 8-Ball, whatever.

IF your stroke is good and straight, and you can pocket balls, i assume your cue ball control isnt the best. you never mentioned anything about controlling the white ball, but if you cant control the cue ball you arent going to be able to run out much.

or perhaps, from your post, you need to work on your mental game. i have long been known to have no, none, zero, zilch, squat, mental toughness with my game, and that is my #1 adversary at the moment in my quest to become a top notch player.

tell us more about yourself, your game, etc, and i am sure you will get some top-notch quality advice. there are alot of knowledgeable posters on this forum.

DCP
 
I would say it is your position play. You could be a good shooter but if your position is weak then you'll make it hard for yourself to run out. practice practice practice is all i can say. watching players helps out alot too since you get to see their patterns etc and where they put the balls in certain situations.
 
chosing the harder runout patern,
leaving yourself difficult 8 or 9b at the end to pot.
not being able to open clusters soon enough.
weak positional play
stress
mental strenght
adjustment to table conditions
you shoot to hard
play more positions with folow then with draw.
...

endless list of reasons that could be the cause.
if we could all learn to master them, then we all would be playing in the ipt and running racks like nothing.

write down everytime u dont run a rack, why u didnt make it. see whats your biggest problem, and train it. that will help u alot to start with. dont get frusty. running racks like nothing is a full time job. it just dont comes by.

best of luck m8 and welcom to the forums
 
I think you guys are right, anyways ive been playing for 2 years, i play with people that are way better than me and for money so i consider my game really good, i can beat a lot of people that have been playing for longer time than me, but i usually win if they miss then i pick up a few balls then he misses again then i usually finish it, i think ill take your advice and try to control the cue ball. DAMN you guys are GREAT!!!!
 
Thank You!!

Solartje said:
chosing the harder runout patern,
leaving yourself difficult 8 or 9b at the end to pot.
not being able to open clusters soon enough.
weak positional play
stress
mental strenght
adjustment to table conditions
you shoot to hard
play more positions with folow then with draw.
...

endless list of reasons that could be the cause.
if we could all learn to master them, then we all would be playing in the ipt and running racks like nothing.

write down everytime u dont run a rack, why u didnt make it. see whats your biggest problem, and train it. that will help u alot to start with. dont get frusty. running racks like nothing is a full time job. it just dont comes by.

best of luck m8 and welcom to the forums
Click to expand...


NICE!!! Thank you, your post has really made me think.. Very detailed. Thank you again.
 
Solartje said:
write down everytime u dont run a rack, why u didnt make it. see whats your biggest problem, and train it. that will help u alot to start with. dont get frusty. running racks like nothing is a full time job. it just dont comes by.
/QUOTE]

thats not a bad idea, writing down the reason why one doesnt run out a rack. after a few days/weeks/months you should have a very good idea what your #1 weakness is. might start doing this myself.

thanks for the tip Solar,
DCP
Click to expand...
 
no problem. funny thing, i actually dont do it :rolleyes: , but i might start doing it now. im making a list of things to do after the summerbreak to get yo my goal, and this was one of the ideas to kick my game up a gear to get there. let me know if it works. :)
 
I practiced like crazy for a few months and I have been able at about 7 times to run a table from 1 to 9 but Im in no way of being that consistent to do it everyday. There is or was a thread about some people posting a video of themselves running a table, I suggest you have a look.
 
good advice from everyone here.

To run racks, you must be able to...
1. pocket balls consistantly
2. play position consistantly
3. choose patterns wisely (the simpler the better)
4. stay out of trouble (avoid unnecessary bad rolls)
5. practice, practice, practice

* the other 90% of the game is mental

Good Luck! Sounds like your off to a good start.

Just remember the top pros only break and run 20% (8-ball). Although they play on tougher tables than most.

Run out advice #2
1. Don't miss...
congratulations, you just ran a rack!!
 
A lot of very good advices here, BUT focus and keep in mind that being able to run a table means that you pot every ball you are playing; so main consentration on that and just a bit behind your position play.

(It's not only once or twice you see a person to miss an easy shot because of being over carefull about position)
 
Run 'em one at a time

Focus on making one shot at a time. It's impossible to run a rack all at once. Just make each shot as if it were the last one. Don't let the rest of the balls intimidate you into missing a shot you can make.
 
Pool is several games in one.

At first it seems you pocket balls and those who can pocket balls the best can win.

When you learn a little more, you learn to hit a ball in with a slow, medium, or fast hit so the cue ball will travel to a spot after the shot and from this spot you can shoot in your next ball easily.

Also people don't know this secret, but if the cue ball is going to hit a rail after the shot, it will bounce off the rail and come back! And if hit hard enough, it can hit the first rail, travel up table and hit that rail, then come back down table! Look at the cue ball and where it is going after a shot. Many times if it was hit a little harder, it would have traveled to a good spot for your next shot. (Also if it was hit softer sometimes, it would be in a good spot.)

Then you learn to use follow, draw, or english (along with speed) when hitting the cue ball, so after the hit, the cue ball will go exactly where you want it, to shoot in your next ball. Note: There are a *lot* of problems associated with using english. Read about backhand english, squirt, throw, low deflection shafts, and cue ball deflection.

So advanced players are doing two things with each shot. Making their ball *and* leaving the cue ball in a good spot for their next shot (position play).

Next is which ball to shoot first when playing 8-ball. If you have 7 or 8 balls to run, your choice of which ball to shoot 1st, 2nd, etc. can make the difference of a successful runout or not.

More advanced is being able to shoot a ball in, have the cue ball break up a cluster of balls, *and* leave the cue ball in a good spot for your next shot. Or being able to shoot a combination shot, figure out where the first ball in the combination will stop after the shot, and leave the cue ball in a spot to then shoot in that ball. This stuff is very difficult or takes a lot of experience.

The key to all this (many years of learning) is to be able "to run 3 friggin' balls"! That is throw 3 balls on the table. The shoot the first in so you leave the cue ball in a spot which allows you to shoot in the second ball *and* after shooting that ball in, you will be able to leave the cue ball in a good spot to shoot in the third ball. You are thinking 3 balls ahead. If you can do this with 3 balls, you can do it with more.

Work on one step at a time. Ask questions here.
 
a few things that have helped my game..........i keep a pool workbook, and when i blow a runout or shapes on a certain layout, i will draw it in my notebook and then when i get some practice time i will "solve" the runouts on the table later, i always know what to do in that situation from there on.
Another thing, do a walk around on the table.......have you ever made a shot, get ur cueball where you wanted it only to find thats not the spot for it?
Always try to get an angle....I used to look at my next shot and id try and get straight in on it.....and i would. Nothing harder than making one straight in shot after another and getting shapes, because you have to work alot harder moving the cueball around.
Finally, learn to visualize exactly what you think the cueball will do on a shot, and then when you shoot the shot watch and see what it does. That way you can train yourself to move the cueball around and get to where you need it to be
 
I'm shocked nobody has mentioned the break. If you can smash the rack, you get more balls down and easier spreads. I realized at one point that my break was holding me back (still does), that I would get more clusters at the one end of the table than players with powerful breaks. Furthermore in 9 ball I would have a few balls at the foot of the table and the rest at the head of the table, it made for tough position play.
 
I haven't read the above posts so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I'd like to suggest the following:

During practice time, start out with a 4 ball rack. (6,7,8,9) Or 3 ball rack if you prefer.
Break the balls and take ball in hand. Your objective is to run the 4 balls in numerical order. What you must ALWAYS keep in mind is a 3 ball rotation; "How do I pocket the 6 ball in order to get position on the 7 ball that will allow me to get to the 8 ball." Once you make the 6 ball, pickup the 9 ball in your "three ball rotation".

Once you're comfortable with the 4 ball runout, add another ball.

It's important to work backwards towards the 1 ball and not start with 1,2,3,4 because it allows you to practice the money ball.
 
scottycoyote said:
Another thing, do a walk around on the table.......have you ever made a shot, get ur cueball where you wanted it only to find thats not the spot for it?
Always try to get an angle....I used to look at my next shot and id try and get straight in on it.....and i would. Nothing harder than making one straight in shot after another and getting shapes, because you have to work alot harder moving the cueball around.
Finally, learn to visualize exactly what you think the cueball will do on a shot, and then when you shoot the shot watch and see what it does. That way you can train yourself to move the cueball around and get to where you need it to be
Click to expand...

Seeing where you THINK you want the CB to land, and then landing it there, without first walking around the table and looking at the potential landing spot (from the correct perspective), is one of the greatest faux pas in pool.
We ALWAYS teach our students to circle the table and look at the lay of the balls from all four sides. You will frequently see something from one side of the table that you would miss from another angle. This can be, and should be done, several times during the rack.

Getting the 'correct' angle is not just practical, but essential to pocketing the OB easily, and gaining the right position angle for the subsequent shot, as well. Generally the correct angle should ideally be 15-30 degrees (30 degrees is a spot shot angle, and the most common angle shot in pool...coming up 60-80% of the time, if you're shooting well). That makes pocketing the ball easy, and getting the same kind of angle on the next shot much simpler. Remember, you need not just the right angle, but the correct "side" of the OB. These kinds of thought processes are what meke table runs much easier, and more consistent.

Visualization is a critical part of the whole process...and usually takes place in the moments before executing the final stroke. Imagine yourself shooting the shot perfectly, and then let your muscles do what your mind has trained them to!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Here are a few tips I've learned over the years.

1. Learn to play position lines where the cueball is going towards the next object ball, or towards the proper angle you want. Crossing the line requires very precise cueball control, and is often the main cause of getting out of line.

2. Don't just glance at your next ball and send the cueball 'somewhere in that area'. Try to visualize the exact path the cueball will travel and exactly the spot where it will stop. You will start out being wrong most of the time, and gradually you will get closer and closer to being right.

3. Be careful of playing positon for the side pockets when a ball is not close to them. Many times I see runouts come to an end because the player falls on the wrong side of the ball, and has to go around the table with alot of traffic. Even when a ball is close to the side pocket, sometimes playing position for the corner is better.

4. Another key problem that causes people's runouts to come to an end is leaving themselves on the rail. Not only does pocketing the ball become more difficult, but you are very limited in what you can do with the cueball. This is almost always caused by poor judgement or a lapse in concentration. Play your angles into the cushion shorter or longer so that when the cueball comes off the rail, you will have some type of angle (unless you want to be straight in)

5. Pick spots on the table you can send the cueball to for position, and walk around the table and see which spot can get you where for the next ball, then the next, etc. If you get out of line, rethink your pattern over.

6. Be careful when breaking out clusters. There is always a right spot of the cluster to hit for a better percentage of getting a shot. Going into clusters the wrong way, you will often hook yourself.

7. Learn to play the percentages. This is one of the keys to playing top-notch pool.

8. If you can't run out because of problems later in the rack, try playing position for a safety.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
Here are a few tips I've learned over the years.

1. Learn to play position lines where the cueball is going towards the next object ball, or towards the proper angle you want. Crossing the line requires very precise cueball control, and is often the main cause of getting out of line.

2. Don't just glance at your next ball and send the cueball 'somewhere in that area'. Try to visualize the exact path the cueball will travel and exactly the spot where it will stop. You will start out being wrong most of the time, and gradually you will get closer and closer to being right.

3. Be careful of playing positon for the side pockets when a ball is not close to them. Many times I see runouts come to an end because the player falls on the wrong side of the ball, and has to go around the table with alot of traffic. Even when a ball is close to the side pocket, sometimes playing position for the corner is better.

4. Another key problem that causes people's runouts to come to an end is leaving themselves on the rail. Not only does pocketing the ball become more difficult, but you are very limited in what you can do with the cueball. This is almost always caused by poor judgement or a lapse in concentration. Play your angles into the cushion shorter or longer so that when the cueball comes off the rail, you will have some type of angle (unless you want to be straight in)

5. Pick spots on the table you can send the cueball to for position, and walk around the table and see which spot can get you where for the next ball, then the next, etc. If you get out of line, rethink your pattern over.

6. Be careful when breaking out clusters. There is always a right spot of the cluster to hit for a better percentage of getting a shot. Going into clusters the wrong way, you will often hook yourself.

7. Learn to play the percentages. This is one of the keys to playing top-notch pool.

8. If you can't run out because of problems later in the rack, try playing position for a safety.
Click to expand...
Great list! Here are things I'm working on aside from continual effort to refine my routine/rhythm and stroke further and further (if Allison Fisher works on her fundamentals during practice, so can I!):

1) I take a minute after the break to visualize the ENTIRE rack (not just the immediate 3 ball pattern). That way I've been getting the feeling that I "own" that rack, and it's only a matter of playing each individual shot correctly;

2) I notice each rack has a particular moment when I should step back and take a second look. I don't know how many racks I blew because I didn't react instantly to a feeling that "hmmm, am I completely sure of what I'm doing here?" and shot the shot anyway. It could be the keyshot, it could be a recovery route, it could be a distraction, it could also be the little guy inside my head talking myself out of a shot. I am working on GETTING UP, surveying the table a little more and only shoot the shot when all question knocking about my head are put to rest;

3) There's no such thing as running a rack. There's only a sequence of individual shots. In fact, when my level of focus is really intense, I might run a rack without noticing it. That's because I brought my full concentration to the shot in front of me, and that shot only (make the ball, get position). Oh, and visualization, vizualization!;

4) I won't let different elements of your pre-shot interfere with one another; if they do, I'll start over. If I pick my line of aim while standing, I won't be aiming while in my stance; if I haven't identified precisely my position zone with the angle I need, I won't be lining up the shot; if I don't know what to do with the 5 because it's tied up, I ain't shooting the 3; if I'm shooting the ball in, I won't worry about the cueball (because that would have been decided beforehand). I think you get my drift...

5) I'm working to play patterns that are simple, with minimal cueball movement, and that minimize risk. One great thing is to always think whether to go long or short;

I hope to encorporate those things into my game to a point when they are completely automatic.
 
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I made these sheets up for note taking on my game. Four tables to one 8 by 11 sheet...
 

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