Problems with Perry Weston and the ACA.
- Thread starter joeyb
- Start date
Hmmmm
Justin, no offense, all you have done was make excuses for everyone involved. The ACA is a new organization, they don't get involved, we have not heard PW's side, etc. etc.
We have PW's version via his email to joey b, and we have exhibit A in the previously posted photos of the cue. Circumstantial evidence indeed, but most persons sitting in a prison cell are there due to circumstantial evidence.
And when PW comes to present his defense I'd be glad to listen!!!
Justin, no offense, all you have done was make excuses for everyone involved. The ACA is a new organization, they don't get involved, we have not heard PW's side, etc. etc.
We have PW's version via his email to joey b, and we have exhibit A in the previously posted photos of the cue. Circumstantial evidence indeed, but most persons sitting in a prison cell are there due to circumstantial evidence.
And when PW comes to present his defense I'd be glad to listen!!!
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well do you have the other side? cuz we'd all like to hear it...regardless of his side of the story it shouldnt have been hard to take the cue back and make it right....i thought in any business the motto has always been the customer is always right.....(jcin's comment not yours chicago)
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I wish, Perry weston or some of his friend and ACA representative can jump in this thread and allow us have another point of view (even, i doubt it will change our view).
Like SUPERSTAR said earlier, there are some Bad cuemaker out there. We as a customer must beware of this.
Maybe we need a new thread for a bad experience with a cuemaker. I saw a thread about a good experience about a cuemaker alot, but i can not find any about the bad one. This is must good for the balance, and i believe this filter is good for the Profesional and good cuemaker.
Best
Dedy :smile:
Like SUPERSTAR said earlier, there are some Bad cuemaker out there. We as a customer must beware of this.
Maybe we need a new thread for a bad experience with a cuemaker. I saw a thread about a good experience about a cuemaker alot, but i can not find any about the bad one. This is must good for the balance, and i believe this filter is good for the Profesional and good cuemaker.
Best
Dedy :smile:
Justin,
I don't feel as though there was any anger in this thread. I understand your position and is duely noted. However, the largest unanswered question is what good does it do to have a boys club promoted by touting professionalism and ethics curbed with a standards of excellence??
Evidently, it does nothing if there is no real action within. Again, I'm not saying every dissatisfied cue customer should be defended by the ACA. I'm just saying....
Lastly, my opinion on this matter is made entirely of 3 things. Number one I am assuming the pics of the cue are just as the OP received it. Number 2I am assuming that indeed the email the OP attached is from PW after the OP sent the initial email regarding his dissatisfaction of the cue. And lastly, number 3 I am judging by the motto of the ACA to hold members to a standard of professionalism.
It appears to me that being on the good action list here garners more clout and ramifications than being a member of the ACA...........
Gary<------------gotta make some bets to get on the G.A.L
I bet Perry doesn't post on here
. Since you aren't on G.A.L. you must post! On a more serious note there are 2 sides to every story. While I completely agree this should have never left the shop with these mistakes, I also wonder what makes him say "You shot your big mouth off to me one too many times." He almost makes it sound like it is outside of you contacting the ACA. If he didn't want to build the product he should have refunded your money and not sent the cue out. I am Just curious on what he is referring to with this quote.
I bet Perry doesn't post on here
On a more serious note there are 2 sides to every story. While I completely agree this should have never left the shop with these mistakes, I also wonder what makes him say "You shot your big mouth off to me one too many times." He almost makes it sound like it is outside of you contacting the ACA. If he didn't want to build the product he should have refunded your money and not sent the cue out. I am Just curious on what he is referring to with this quote.
You make a great point!!! And I would like to know for sure too....everyone in this thread is basing their info on the the 3 "knowns" I used above.....but I am glad you brought up that line as well!
I wish someone would contact PW.....I may do that tomorrow If I get time to get his side.....I am quite sure though that someone has at least attempted by this point to help PW save face.
Thanks again!!!!!!!! Maybe we can make a bet sometime....:wink:
Gary
When an organization has the mission statement to maintain certain high levels of craftmanship and ethical standards and has an exclusive membership that is seen as the people who live up to said standards then yeah, when a member no longer keeps to that level of craftmanship and refuses to make it right then he no longer falls within the standards the organization set forth and thus should have his membership removed. Anything less and the ACA and its membership becomes worth less then the paper their mission statement is printed on.
Yes it was one cue Jcin, but it was a clear case of poor work, it would have been fully known by Perry Weston that it was poor work both during the process of making the cue and at the time he sent it off. And then he refused to acknwledge that yeah the cue was terrible and that he would make it right.
How many people should a member of the ACA be allowed to rip off each year? How many cues per a year are the members of the ACA able to build to lower then expected standards that the organization claims to hold and still maintain their membership? Should buying a cue from a member of the ACA be akin to playing Russian roulette with your money, you might get a great cue that meets ACA standards or you might get crap.
The thing that bugs me about stuff like this is lets say someone who does not play pool, knows nothing about cues, but decides to get a gift for a loved one that plays pool. Not knowing about cues much they do the smart and logical thing, they go to the ACA website which is a list of elite custom cue makers who are supposedly held to high standards and they find a cue maker from the list of ACA accredited cue makers.
They get a ACA member who for all intents and purposes "should" be doing high quality work to be a member of that organization to begin with to build a cue, and when they recieve it what does that person do? Maybe they don't know better and they give the 4-digit priced cue away as a gift, and the pool player that recieves it now has the choice of saying "wow, this cue is built badly", thus making the gift buyer feel terrible, or they can bite their tounge and take it saying "wow, thanks" but knowing that the person who gave them the gift got ripped off and now they have a cue that is brutally built, cost huge money, and they don't know what to do with it.
In products like this the common consumer with limited knowledge should be able to trust in an organization like the ACA with its membership of people in the cue world who know very well what makes a high quality product. Cue makers making crap products and then saying "tough shit" is not good enough. There is no magical number of people screwed over when it becomes OK, it is wrong on that very first person when a cue maker decides to send out a crap product that they know is not properly built. And Perry Weston knew, he just did not care and decided to rip the OP off.
If the ACA wants to have any legitimacy at all they need to seriously deal with this. It is not "gee Perry, maybe you should fix that guys cue, it does look a little shoddy", it is instead "Perry, the cue you built JoeyB does not come close to meeting the minimum standards of the ACA. We formally request you either refund the money to the customer or build the customer a new cue that meets the standards of the ACA or we will be forced to revoke your membership in this organization."
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Well, looks I didn't get on here early enough to see this cue. Would someone kindly forward me an email with some pics? I've PMed and emailed the OP requesting, but no response. This thread is really worthless on here without any pics for readers to refer to. If the cue is as bad as many esteemed members are saying it is, then that's pretty amazing to me because Perry's work has always been so nice. And if the posted email comments are indeed true, then that's shocking to say the least.
Ultimately...the buck stops with Perry Weston. He has been made aware, by Dave Jacoby, that there is an issue with a very unhappy customer. I would actually be quite surprised, especially with the number of active members here, if someone who knows Perry had not already alerted him to the 'bad press' he is currently receiving on AZB. I know that the Jacobys have an account here...and I am guessing that Dave does know both sides of the story. Either he wishes to not get any further involved in a public manner, or there simply is nothing else to tell.
I do understand where Justin is coming from with regards to the ACA. Neither Dave Jacoby nor the ACA can force Perry to make his customer 'whole' again. Members of the ACA stretch across the nation. They typically come together each year at SBE to present awards and induct members into the ACA Hall of Fame. I would venture to guess that many have no clue as to this incident.
Like Justin pointed out, addressing something like this with the ACA membership will take some time. While Dave Jacoby may be the President of the ACA...it's not like he can arbitrarily make a blanket decision concerning Perry's failure to abide by the Mission Statement. This is an issue that will need to be addressed, and a decision made on how best to handle it, by the general membership...but it's not going to happen overnight.
There are many fine cue makers within the ACA organization, and this unfortunate incident should not bear directly upon their reputations. That, IMHO, is terribly unfair...it's not 'guilt by association'. Boycotting them is not the answer, instead, I would suggest going to the ACA website and seeing if your local maker, or maker of choice is on the membership list, and perhaps voicing your concerns with regards to this issue directly to them, in a respectful manner. They may get the information much quicker this way, and it allows them to take a collectively more pro-active approach to the issue as opposed to a reactive one.
Lisa
I do understand where Justin is coming from with regards to the ACA. Neither Dave Jacoby nor the ACA can force Perry to make his customer 'whole' again. Members of the ACA stretch across the nation. They typically come together each year at SBE to present awards and induct members into the ACA Hall of Fame. I would venture to guess that many have no clue as to this incident.
Like Justin pointed out, addressing something like this with the ACA membership will take some time. While Dave Jacoby may be the President of the ACA...it's not like he can arbitrarily make a blanket decision concerning Perry's failure to abide by the Mission Statement. This is an issue that will need to be addressed, and a decision made on how best to handle it, by the general membership...but it's not going to happen overnight.
There are many fine cue makers within the ACA organization, and this unfortunate incident should not bear directly upon their reputations. That, IMHO, is terribly unfair...it's not 'guilt by association'. Boycotting them is not the answer, instead, I would suggest going to the ACA website and seeing if your local maker, or maker of choice is on the membership list, and perhaps voicing your concerns with regards to this issue directly to them, in a respectful manner. They may get the information much quicker this way, and it allows them to take a collectively more pro-active approach to the issue as opposed to a reactive one.
Lisa
Ok, I'm back from my trip to NYC. Anyone who wants to see the pics just email me at joeybranford@hotmail.com. Just for the record the cue is sold as well as the other cues I owned by Perry. I sold it at a loss. I need to try to get this whole situation behind me. I put this post on here because I think everyone should be aware of what's going on with Perry and the ACA. I have been trying to get a custom cue made now for all most 2 years. The 1st cue maker who is a member on here on AZ, delivered it with a chip out point and the point work was unacceptable. But, he did his best to make the situation right. So, after that I still wanted a custom cue. So, I contacted Perry and thought I would be getting high level workmanship based on what I have ever seen from him.(boy was I wrong on this one) Perry will never admit that he has done me wrong. But, the proof is here. What more can one say.
I have heard some roomers about Perry's personal life. I was told by two separate people that Perry was losing his property for some reason. Being in the mortgage business I checked the public tax records to find that his property has changed ownership recently.(time line in conjunction with my cue situation) My guess is that he was or is on a time crunch to be out of his property and he rushed my cue. And, then when he agreed to fix it, he realized that he didn't have enough time to rebuild it. This is all speculation. But, if it is true all he had to do was tell me the truth of the matter and we could have worked it out. Also, a few weeks ago, I noticed that his website is now down. I informed Perry that I was posting this on AZ and here's what he had to say about it. He has no respect for himself or anybody.
There is one thing I have learned. It's the same situation with home contractors and now I have seen it with cuemakers. "There are people in this world who will make their money problems, your money problem!"
I have heard some roomers about Perry's personal life. I was told by two separate people that Perry was losing his property for some reason. Being in the mortgage business I checked the public tax records to find that his property has changed ownership recently.(time line in conjunction with my cue situation) My guess is that he was or is on a time crunch to be out of his property and he rushed my cue. And, then when he agreed to fix it, he realized that he didn't have enough time to rebuild it. This is all speculation. But, if it is true all he had to do was tell me the truth of the matter and we could have worked it out. Also, a few weeks ago, I noticed that his website is now down. I informed Perry that I was posting this on AZ and here's what he had to say about it. He has no respect for himself or anybody.
There is one thing I have learned. It's the same situation with home contractors and now I have seen it with cuemakers. "There are people in this world who will make their money problems, your money problem!"
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Thank you for the update, Joey. While I am conflicted about you posting some more personal info regarding Perry...it does explain a lot. It may well explain his attitude, which did come off as a bit bitter, but certainly does not excuse it or his actions.
I am glad you were able to recoup some $$$, which is better than nothing, I suppose, and that you can now feel able to move on.
Might I suggest that you contact Dave Jacoby again, and update him as to your resolution in this matter.
During that conversation, you may wish to suggest to Dave that at the ACA's next meeting, which I will assume will be in March at SBE, that they put on the agenda a discussion as to how the ACA may better handle such situations, should they occur again in the future. You may wish to explain to him that if they are pro-active in addressing this now, it no longer puts the ACA and the Board of Directors in a reactionary stance should something like this occur again with one of it's members. Perhaps a clarification of their Mission Statement is in order, and what, if any penalties will be enforced if a member is found to be in willful misconduct in accordance with that Mission Statement.
It might also be suggested that the ACA consider creating a new position on their Board of Directors and elect a Customer Liason. This could be member in good standing, who might act as a go-between to handle these sorts of situations. This person would be able to review any complaints as to validity, and mediate between a customer and maker, thus avoiding situations such as yours in the future. This, IMHO, would go a long way to shore up the ACA's credibility with regards to it's Mission Statement.
I have found that when presented in a respectful manner, cue makers are often receptive to input from their customers, especially if it helps them make a better product and/or make their business grow.
Lisa
Take some solace that it will ultimately cost Weston a whole lot more money than you lost. From a business perspective, it was a dumb move on his part. I've noticed that in this economy, there are a lot of desperate people.
If you want my 2 cents, buy an existing cue that you have been able to hit a few balls with and you know is constructed well. Unless your 7 feet tall, there should be a bunch of fantastic cues out there that will meet your requirements. I've collected cues off and on my whole life...the vast majority of keepers where cues that I got 2nd hand, and many by relative unknowns. I've had mixed success with ordering a "custom". The reason being is that you won't know until it is done whether you will even like the "hit", much less the contruction.
Lastly, post pictures of the cue, everyone should see what work this guy put out.
If you want my 2 cents, buy an existing cue that you have been able to hit a few balls with and you know is constructed well. Unless your 7 feet tall, there should be a bunch of fantastic cues out there that will meet your requirements. I've collected cues off and on my whole life...the vast majority of keepers where cues that I got 2nd hand, and many by relative unknowns. I've had mixed success with ordering a "custom". The reason being is that you won't know until it is done whether you will even like the "hit", much less the contruction.
Lastly, post pictures of the cue, everyone should see what work this guy put out.
I almost forgot...AZB is a wonderful resource...especially with regards to makers and their cues. The next time you are thinking of placing an order for a custom cue, you might wish to do a search on that maker here first, and then ask if any one has any input to get more recent info regarding a given maker.
The sad truth is that there are good and bad makers out there. There are people here who are willing to share their experiences, both good and bad, to help guide a potential customer. Use us...LoL!
No maker is perfect...sometimes something gets out there that the customer is just not happy with or there was some sort of misunderstanding/miscommunication. Good makers understand this, and hold their customers in high esteem, and they will do what they can to resolve an issue, within reason. They know that a happy customer is going to spread the word, and that's money in the bank.
Hopefully your next experience will be a much, much more pleasant one. There are some fine makers here, and within the ACA whom I bet would be more than happy to make that cue for you, and to your expectations. Please do not let this experience sour you.
Lisa
The sad truth is that there are good and bad makers out there. There are people here who are willing to share their experiences, both good and bad, to help guide a potential customer. Use us...LoL!
No maker is perfect...sometimes something gets out there that the customer is just not happy with or there was some sort of misunderstanding/miscommunication. Good makers understand this, and hold their customers in high esteem, and they will do what they can to resolve an issue, within reason. They know that a happy customer is going to spread the word, and that's money in the bank.
Hopefully your next experience will be a much, much more pleasant one. There are some fine makers here, and within the ACA whom I bet would be more than happy to make that cue for you, and to your expectations. Please do not let this experience sour you.
Lisa
Justin first let me say, I have a great deal of respect for you, you are level headed and you stand up for what you believe. But, in this case I think you are way off base you have stated thoughout this thread that it appears many people have very high expectations of the ACA, and in my opinion they certainly should.
The ACA was formed as an organization by a number of professional cue makers to make money for themselves. The purpose of forming an organization like this is designed to give the cue buying public confidents in those cue makers who are associated with this organization (By being Members) by setting standards and by testing it's members to insure that they meet those standards.
The very high standard you speak of that has been applied to the ACA are a direct reflection of the standards they clearly state their members must follow. Now I do not think that a single cue is going to destroy their credibility unless, the customer is not compensated and unless they do not follow up on this situation since it has been brought to the attention of the organizations President.
I have seen photo's of the cue and they certainly do not repesent the standards of this organization, in fact from all I have seen they also do not represent the cue maker in question based upon his work which has always been far supirior. I hope this situation resolves itself and I also hope that the resolution is made public, because at this point I think that there is a great deal on the line for all concerned.
Take Care
Lisa,
I have a better idea. The ACA should form their own escrow service for their member's only. This could as help them generate some extra funds. I have spoken to Dave Jacoby and Jim Buss. They claim that the broad is looking into having some set protocol on how cue makers are to handle a situation like the one I had.
I have a better idea. The ACA should form their own escrow service for their member's only. This could as help them generate some extra funds. I have spoken to Dave Jacoby and Jim Buss. They claim that the broad is looking into having some set protocol on how cue makers are to handle a situation like the one I had.
I am glad that they are considering addressing this issue with their members...at least open a dialog.
As to the Escrow idea...not so keen on that, I think. I think escrow works great when dealing in private sales of pre-owned cues...mostly because you are often just not sure of whom you are dealing with.
Myself, I have done my homework, and have the utmost trust in those makers I have dealt with...some ACA, some not. We have a working relationship established, and some friendships have been forged. It's not that I am trying to be cheap, but the reality is, I gotta scrimp and save for the cues that I have ordered in the past...often down to the penny. I really do not wish to add extra costs other than those I have budgeted for. Another thing is...those last weeks of waiting for completion are a killer...and I pay for overnight shipping to get my cue to me ASAP. I really do not wish to have my cue sit in escrow until someone can get around to inspecting it for me.
I guess my point is, I do not feel that I should have to pay extra and wait longer for a cue from an ACA member to be inspected when they should be doing the quality work that allowed them entrance into the ACA to begin with.
Lisa
Lisa,
The only problem with your thought from my perspective is, everyone who purchased a Perry Weston before Joey, raves about the workmanship. My guess is, that is why so few PW owners jumped in on this thread. It is a beginning. Having a pro-active ACA may be part of the solution. In the end, the court of public opinion is the best! Joey must have thought long and hard before making his original post. Shame to have a well respected individuals reputation dragged through the mud.
Lyn
Sorry, double post,
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Lisa,
Well, after what Perry has put me through an escrow service would have saved me a lot of time and money. In the last 20 months I have lost a fair amount of money on 2 custom cues. I'm saying that escrow could be an option for the customer. I did my best here with Perry to build a trusting relationship. He was nice as pie, until he got my money. The biggest problem and the point of this thread is that there is no regulation in this industry. The customer has no real recourse. In my case I was going to file legal action against Perry. But, the cost to travel to Arkansas from Pennsylvania(flight,hotel, car rental) would have been 600-700 extra.(plus court cost,100-150) The only way you can file a small claims court case on someone, is by filing in the state that they reside in.(if you want to get the right results) Any execution of a judgment, garnishment, or sheriff sale has to be done by their local district Judge. This could drag out to be a long process. And, I still many not get my money because he doesn't have it.
Well, after what Perry has put me through an escrow service would have saved me a lot of time and money. In the last 20 months I have lost a fair amount of money on 2 custom cues. I'm saying that escrow could be an option for the customer. I did my best here with Perry to build a trusting relationship. He was nice as pie, until he got my money. The biggest problem and the point of this thread is that there is no regulation in this industry. The customer has no real recourse. In my case I was going to file legal action against Perry. But, the cost to travel to Arkansas from Pennsylvania(flight,hotel, car rental) would have been 600-700 extra.(plus court cost,100-150) The only way you can file a small claims court case on someone, is by filing in the state that they reside in.(if you want to get the right results) Any execution of a judgment, garnishment, or sheriff sale has to be done by their local district Judge. This could drag out to be a long process. And, I still many not get my money because he doesn't have it.
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