Professional Pool is Dead

J

jjinfla

Banned
It is time to face the facts, men's professional pool is dead. Why? Because the demographics just are not there.

AZB lists around 6800 members. Not a whole lot. And how many of them are double listings? But that is most likely just about all the people who care about men's professional pool. Well, half of them might.

The IPT ran 4 matches/tournaments featuring the top players in the world and the public could care less. A half a million dollar payment to first place and no one cared. The news media sure didn't care. Not even a mention on any newscasts.

So it is time for the pros to face the facts. They are in a sport that does not attract fans. They play in dirty, smoke filled rooms and are looked down at by the general public. The public's image is that they are out of work pool bums and hustlers. The only time a pool room will make the news is when someone in it is shot.

Ewa and Mitch have a pretty good idea showing pool in a different light. Making it fun and enjoyable and showing off the pros having fun. Of course I would not expect them to invite Corey back he just doesn't fit the right image.

More people went to watch the Saints play last night then will go to watch the pros play in the next ten years. There just is no interest in watching the pros play.

Jake
 
Pool is more exciting to watch than darts, table tennis and chess so i don't know what your talking about.
 
You really should go to a table tennis match and see all the fans they draw. A hell of a lot more than pool players draw.

Of course darts, table tennis and chess are not all that successful either for people who want to earn a living so why are you comparing pool to another failed venture?
 
unfortunately for most non-fans watching a professional pool match is not their idea of a fun time. i dont think professional pool is dead per se, it will always have a loyal following, but i dont think it will ever achieve the same status as other professional sports.

for me up here in canada i RARELY get to see a professional, so i welcome the chance to see pool on tv.
 
Noodles said:
Pool is more exciting to watch than darts, table tennis and chess so i don't know what your talking about.
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Jake hit the nail squarely on the head. Pool mught be more exciting to you and me than Darts, but that is about it.

To his/their credit, the IPT crew came up with the most creative idea to get the public invoved in the game than anyone has come up with over the past 20, 30, or more years. The public was intrigued with Fats because he was just an incredible character who came up with incredible stories. Nobody cared if they were true or not, they just liked hearing the outrageous. There were personal interviews with Fats which people enjoyed listening to and felt entertained. When was the last time anyone took the time to interview one of todays top players and them being asked one single personal question? The last time was on 60 Minutes almost or about 20-35 years ago with UJ Puckett. Why UJ, because he was a gambler and an incredible character.

Efren has become to pool what Pele was to soccer. We just expect him to do the humanly impossible. We expect him to win. Will Efren ever be highlighted on ESPN's Sports Century? Probably not and the sad truth is that the majority of the world doesn't have a clue who Efren is. The other half doesn't even care. When we get right down to it, has ESPN shown even the slightest intrest in any pool player since the death of Fats?

If we are all to be real honest, the only human intrest story invoving the IPT was the fact that some Felon with a lot of money was the promoter. Now he hasn't paid what is owed and he is still the focus. Now, it should be in the news, but who cares.

Sadly, I agree with Jake. Pro pool is just about dead. It couldn't even get bought.
 
jjinfla said:
It is time to face the facts, men's professional pool is dead. Why? Because the demographics just are not there.
Jake
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I am going to have to respectfully disagree. If you change your position to “men’s professional pool is dead in America,” I still will not completely agree, but you would have a stronger case.
 
jjinfla said:
You really should go to a table tennis match and see all the fans they draw. A hell of a lot more than pool players draw.

Of course darts, table tennis and chess are not all that successful either for people who want to earn a living so why are you comparing pool to another failed venture?
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I need to work on my sarcasm :D

I actually agree with everything you wrote in this post.

jjinfla said:
It is time to face the facts, men's professional pool is dead. Why? Because the demographics just are not there.

AZB lists around 6800 members. Not a whole lot. And how many of them are double listings? But that is most likely just about all the people who care about men's professional pool. Well, half of them might.

The IPT ran 4 matches/tournaments featuring the top players in the world and the public could care less. A half a million dollar payment to first place and no one cared. The news media sure didn't care. Not even a mention on any newscasts.

So it is time for the pros to face the facts. They are in a sport that does not attract fans. They play in dirty, smoke filled rooms and are looked down at by the general public. The public's image is that they are out of work pool bums and hustlers. The only time a pool room will make the news is when someone in it is shot.

Ewa and Mitch have a pretty good idea showing pool in a different light. Making it fun and enjoyable and showing off the pros having fun. Of course I would not expect them to invite Corey back he just doesn't fit the right image.

More people went to watch the Saints play last night then will go to watch the pros play in the next ten years. There just is no interest in watching the pros play.
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The Real question is: How can we change all this?

You know what makes Poker on tv so exciting, It's all in the commentry. If you can get right then it's all over. You need to spin some fantastic tales about what going on. Something Kt should do very well if he was commentating.

Also need some good looking women cheer leaders doing what they do best, cheering between games.

If KT reads this It just might save the IPT. :D

Noodles
 
This reminded me of a time I went to the local Billiard Factory here in South Houston with Charles Bryant. He plays with a glove and was in desperate need of a new one. So off we go.

As far as professional pool players in Houston go, we have Jeremy Jones and Charles Bryant, so you might think they would recognize an active touring pro player who lives just a shade away from the place. You would be wrong.

I was dumbfounded when I realized that the guys that work at one of the largest billiard supply places in town didn't recognize him. I didn't know what to think. It's one thing to go to McDonalds and not get recognized, but Jesus Christ! These guys are working at the Billiard Factory and can't recognize a guy thats been on the Billiard Digest Power Index for a year, in the top 15 on the UPA points list for at least that long, one of only two people in the Houston area with an IPT tour card, had finished 1st on the last 2 Fast Eddie's Texas tour events (one of which is 5 miles away from their business), and he lives less than 10 miles from the business.

The point is there's just no interest in men's pro pool, apparently not even from the industry. Kinda sad.:(
 
TX Poolnut said:
This reminded me of a time I went to the local Billiard Factory here in South Houston with Charles Bryant. He plays with a glove and was in desperate need of a new one. So off we go.

As far as professional pool players in Houston go, we have Jeremy Jones and Charles Bryant, so you might think they would recognize an active touring pro player who lives just a shade away from the place. You would be wrong.

I was dumbfounded when I realized that the guys that work at one of the largest billiard supply places in town didn't recognize him. I didn't know what to think. It's one thing to go to McDonalds and not get recognized, but Jesus Christ! These guys are working at the Billiard Factory and can't recognize a guy thats been on the Billiard Digest Power Index for a year, in the top 15 on the UPA points list for at least that long, one of only two people in the Houston area with an IPT tour card, had finished 1st on the last 2 Fast Eddie's Texas tour events (one of which is 5 miles away from their business), and he lives less than 10 miles from the business.

The point is there's just no interest in men's pro pool, apparently not even from the industry. Kinda sad.:(
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Well, welcome to the neighborhood.

Before our last Fast Eddies event in Houston, I took Flyers to three Blilliard Supply houses in Houston and asked them to help me promote the tournament a little. Each said 'sure' and thought it was a good idea. Three days later I called all three and asked them if they could give me some information on the same tournament and all three said they knew nothing about it.
A few days later, out of curiosity, I called all three and asked if they knew where the US Open was held. Tow responded with, "I didn't know there was a US Open for pool", and the other told me to call back and check with the manager.
 
mthornto said:
I am going to have to respectfully disagree. If you change your position to “men’s professional pool is dead in America,” I still will not completely agree, but you would have a stronger case.
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I was gonna say that. LOL. Most people think that America is "end all be all" for almost anything. The biggest and most popular sport in the world can't hardly even draw 10 people to the stadium in United States, but you can't say soccer is dead. I think it will be a lot better if pool is marketed more on regions that it matters most instead of pushing it to the American audience who's been ignoring it for quite sometimes now. This is almost the same dilemma as the NHL who still has a grand idea of trying to push the sport below the Mason-Dixon line instead of expanding to Europe and Russia.

I just read that most of the Asian Tours pay appearance fee to top players who get invited or qualified. I'm not really surprise if the bigger Euro tours are the same.
 
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pool as a spectator sport

Maybe you're right......I mentioned in another thread that I attended the Reno IPT Event, and had a real nice time as a spectator, but although the admission fee was only $5.00 for the entire day's matches, I noticed the attendance to be rather sparse...........................
 
ironman said:
J
Efren has become to pool what Pele was to soccer. We just expect him to do the humanly impossible.
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One of the highest goals in human endeavors is to create an effect. We play pool to impress others, and the ultimate win for us is to "play like God". Tiger Woods is popular because he has demonstrated that kind of human potential. The same is true for Pele, Michael Jordan, and (for many of us) Efren. The movie "The Color of Money" had people flocking to the pool halls, and I think it was because Newman talked about getting into stroke, and we all wanted that. Pool has a terrible reputation to overcome on its way to developing a spiritual mystique, but it can be done. First, pool players must start acting like gentlemen. The notions of smoking, violence, gambling, drugs, sharking, and deception have to lose their association with pool. Second, the spiritual mystique of pool must be emphasized in the media. A great movie could do wonders. If these things are accomplished, financial backing will show up as corporations dare to advertise and associate their proud names with this sport.
 
Rarelymisses said:
One of the highest goals in human endeavors is to create an effect. We play pool to impress others, and the ultimate win for us is to "play like God". Tiger Woods is popular because he has demonstrated that kind of human potential. The same is true for Pele, Michael Jordan, and (for many of us) Efren. The movie "The Color of Money" had people flocking to the pool halls, and I think it was because Newman talked about getting into stroke, and we all wanted that. Pool has a terrible reputation to overcome on its way to developing a spiritual mystique, but it can be done. First, pool players must start acting like gentlemen. The notions of smoking, violence, gambling, drugs, sharking, and deception have to lose their association with pool. Second, the spiritual mystique of pool must be emphasized in the media. A great movie could do wonders. If these things are accomplished, financial backing will show up as corporations dare to advertise and associate their proud names with this sport.
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Agreed. But allow me to add that in order to achieve all that you stated, the leadership of the sport of pool must be individuals or groups that are well respected, ethical, honest, and credible on a national level. They must share that same vision and passion and be leaders by example. The sleaze factor can never achieve what you describe.
 
Sure, 70,000 screaming fans attended the football game or to a lesser extent a table tennis match or volleyball game, etc. Pool is not spectator fan friendly and it isn't because it's played in dirty smokey poolrooms.

I have attended many pool tournaments with the biggest names in pool playing each other and a poor attentance. Why ? I'll tell you why. In many (but not all) instances, you pay a door charge for General Admission or V.I.P. seating. Once seated, you aren't supposed to talk or move or let your cell phone ring or drink beer and whoop & holler or rattle your popcorn or potato chip bag. Don't wiggle your feet. Don't play music on the jukebox. Don't smoke or order food and expect to eat it within 100" of a match. I've seen Hall Of Famers chastise PAYING fans for whispering in their friend's ear, eating hot wings, sneezing, coughing, wiggling their white tennis shoes, having their cell phone ring some aggravating tune.It's too hot, too cold, too humid, too dry, too early or too late to play.

It's no wonder that the masses aren't rushing to pay (or not pay) to watch the prima donna's play in a funeral atmosphere. Where you get to watch the PLAYERS rant and rave, pout, complain about the table or conditions and all the while,the fans are required to sit as mannequins. Spectating pool tournaments sucks as 'entertainment'.

Ask AZBer Murray Tucker about getting called down in front of everyone by a HOFer at Planet 9 Ball. Or, ask RSBer Joey A. about the senior tournament in Biloxi, Miss. or just ask ME. Btw, I always sit still and remain quiet while at pool tournaments, but it isn't really enjoyable and pool tournaments can't be compared to other spectator sports, where people are allowed to be people and enjoy themselves.

Doug
(all imo, of course)
 
Smorgass Bored said:
Sure, 70,000 screaming fans attended the football game or to a lesser extent a table tennis match or volleyball game, etc. Pool is not spectator fan friendly and it isn't because it's played in dirty smokey poolrooms.

I have attended many pool tournaments with the biggest names in pool playing each other and a poor attentance. Why ? I'll tell you why. In many (but not all) instances, you pay a door charge for General Admission or V.I.P. seating. Once seated, you aren't supposed to talk or move or let your cell phone ring or drink beer and whoop & holler or rattle your popcorn or potato chip bag. Don't wiggle your feet. Don't play music on the jukebox. Don't smoke or order food and expect to eat it within 100" of a match. I've seen Hall Of Famers chastise PAYING fans for whispering in their friend's ear, eating hot wings, sneezing, coughing, wiggling their white tennis shoes, having their cell phone ring some aggravating tune.It's too hot, too cold, too humid, too dry, too early or too late to play.

It's no wonder that the masses aren't rushing to pay (or not pay) to watch the prima donna's play in a funeral atmosphere. Where you get to watch the PLAYERS rant and rave, pout, complain about the table or conditions and all the while,the fans are required to sit as mannequins. Spectating pool tournaments sucks as 'entertainment'.

Ask AZBer Murray Tucker about getting called down in front of everyone by a HOFer at Planet 9 Ball. Or, ask RSBer Joey A. about the senior tournament in Biloxi, Miss. or just ask ME. Btw, I always sit still and remain quiet while at pool tournaments, but it isn't really enjoyable and pool tournaments can't be compared to other spectator sports, where people are allowed to be people and enjoy themselves.

Doug
(all imo, of course)
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Don't delete this one......it's good!!
 
Smorgass is right. Although, it isn't the only reason pool sucks ass in America.

I was at a tournament in Planet 9-ball, when a hall of famer walked over and complained that I was shaking my foot. I'd apologize IF they were facing my direction when shooting. Their shot was in the opposite direction where I wasn't visible. Anyway, this particular HOF'er is notorious (at least to me) for intentionally pointing out non-existant or unintentional sharking not because it bother them, but to create a scene or a distraction for their opponent. This is actually THEIR SHARKING move. I've seen it done on 3 other Florida tour stops. It's over the head of most people. They think it bothers them, when it's just a sleazy move.


That being said, I used to go to see Florida tour stops as they have some serious talent present. But a few things kill it for me. Like the ridiculous door or seat charges, and the shitty atmosphere. I love pool, but I don't love it so much to sit there and suffer for hours just to watch good patterns and good strokes all day. I used to when I was more of a newbie, but not anymore. I no longer go to see them. They're not worth my time.


About the door/seat charges. It isn't the price that is expensive. They're cheap. It's just that as cheap as they are, they're not worth it. The attraction is not a good enough value to charge for. Sorry, that's just the truth. Now, the IPT is something worth paying for. They aren't nazis to the fans and the venue is nice and the quality is there. At least the environment is good, but the players are still idiots and some of them attack fans verbally. IPT charges $20. A pool hall hosting a tour should charge ZERO given the quality difference. Having the tour in their pool hall should bring in food and drink sales. That's good enough for them. If they think that's BS, well too bad - don't host tour stops if it's not profitable. If it is profitable, then it's not going to be on account of me. I have a feeling a busy pool hall like Planet 9-ball LOSES money hosting those tour stops. Place is pretty busy on Saturday nights even at 8pm. Tour stops often last well past 8pm on both weekend nights. If I owned the place, I'd never host any of that crap. Ken is a nice guy though, a good player and probably (not his words so I don't know) just wants to support the sport. Just a guess.

As for the pool is dead. Yeah, pool isn't a spectator sport. People would rather play it than watch it. Not many people watch bowling, they'd rather go play it. The less accessible the sport, the more it is viewed. Golf is not as accessible. Then there are the true athletic sports, which due to their physical nature, exclude entire masses of people from participating. I dunno about you guys, but I'm not in shape to play football or soccer or basketball like I used to, and I'm still young with no health issues. Also, pool isn't really exciting to watch. You have to know a lot about it to be impressed by a shot. It takes a certain level of knowledge in advance to appreciate the game. That's something most people don't have. There's a STEEP learning curve to pool. That's another factor. If you don't know about pool, it just looks like balls being banged around. Awesome position play just appears to be luck. It is easy to assume those shots are easy. For whatever reason, no one thinks a 350 yard drive in Golf is easy. Other games/sports do not appear as trivial, lucky or simple/easy as pool to the newbie.

Anyway, this thread in some form or another has been done to death on chat forums. In defense of the IPT, everything, I mean everything the thread starter complained about is something the KT and the IPT originally wanted to change or combat. They want to transform that image. If you think about it, every single one of these grievances could be said about other games or sports. They had to start somewhere. They didn't start off super-popular. The question then becomes, why isn't pool ever making ground? It's never had decent management or unity. Till the IPT, which who knows if it will survive. At least they are trying or making an attempt. Can't transform something in a year or even 5 years. Which is why I think the IPT plan is in trouble. It is too much money all at once. That demands that there be a big return all at once. KT isn't going to spend this money for the next 5-6 years till it starts turning around.

For some reason, pool just does not attract good people.

Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't attract positive people who want to invest in the sport. You need talent to get something going, whether it be a business or whatever. Poolhalls are not places filled with talent. Great business minds and bigshots don't hang out in pool halls or are interested in pool. These people dont' like SMELLY SH1TTY SMOKEY POOL HALLS filled with degenerate dirtbags.

A couple of you in this thread said that it isn't becuase of smelly, dirty, smokey pool halls. BS! It IS because of that. It is a major turn off for most of society. And until pool attracts a whole new class of people, quality and talent will never get involved. Instead, there will be a few semi-decent business minds in the industry portion, and consumers and nothing else. That's how it is now. The rest are conmen and thieves. That's it. All predatory sleazy crap. KT and the IPT is just one rich guy taking a stab at possibly finding a fortune where others have overlooked. Time will tell. But that's just one guy. Golf wasn't built by one guy. Poker wasn't built by one guy. Tennis wasn't built by one guy....and none of them were built in a decade, it took much longer.
 
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