Proof that the UPA/BCA/WPA SUCK

[onepocketchump]

Where is the proof?????????randyg

The proof of what? That Max and Frank did not have to "qualify" for this tournament, held in a spot that no one knows about?

The proof that the UPA is not interested in the well being of ALL of it's players?

The proof that the WPA is inneffective at gathering together the world's best without selling out the players and fans?

The proof that the BCA, who touts themselves as the governing body of pool, is only interested in selling booth spaces rather than actually governing?

Let's see two UPA players, who are arguably, relatively unknown and one of them pretty much unqualified, are going to play in a "World Championship" put on by the WPA with barely any notice on the BCA's website. You remember the BCA, the organization that represents the USA as a board member of the WPA?

Stephen Ducoff is the United States rep for the WPA. So how were these two, out of all the great players we have in the USA, chosen? The UPA nominated them, after no one else wanted to go is my guess. I guess the BCA didn't even know, or care, who the players are.

So, it seems as thought the WPA is already impotent when it comes to getting the best players in the world to show up at their events. The 9-Ball world championships is a MATCHROOM production and it would be EXACTLY the same with or without the WPA.

John

 

[14.1player]

To throw more fuel on the fire, you forgot to mention that the WPA World 8-ball features 16 UAE players, 1/4 of the field, who probably are not even up to the level of Alvarez.

 

[Eydie Romano]

You didn't hurt my feelings one bit. That is my whole point. No one knows how or why these two players ended up being the ONLY male representatives to the "World 8-Ball Championships".

On ability, Max defnitely deserves to be there. There are, however dozens of master-level league players in this country that would have been more fitting players to send than Frank Alvarez. Sorry Frank, if you are reading this, you know I will say the same thing to you as well.

Here is a partial list of relatively "unknown" players who would be well qualified,

Jessie Bowman
Jeff Sargeant
Julio Aquino
Scott Tollefson

And I just don't have time to think of the dozens more.

John

John You forgot Bob Romano LOL

OMG Alverez? You gotta be kidding me? Alverez is on the pro list and is part of the UPA because he is on the board, but (sorry Frank) not a "pro" player from a professional stand point. There is something wrong here. He is going to represent us playing, or is he representing us smoozing? He rates "real Pro" when it comes to smoozing.

Frank get's invited to stuff because he has a great look and talks the talk. He is very presentable. But his game? That's a different story!

 

[Blackjack]

The proof that the UPA is not interested in the well being of ALL of it's players?

First of all, that statement is 100% complete and total BS. Before you tell me I'm wrong, I'll let my experience stand off to the side and I will address the issue that leads you to believe that statement is correct. These are the facts.

The UPA does not owe anybody money. Brady Behrman does. Get that through your head. A lot of work was done to have all parties cooperate to reach a solution on how that money would be paid back. Who got that ball rolling? Was it you? Did you do anything to help any of those players? I doubt it. Like everybody else you sat back and criticized, laughed, pointed fingers, cracked jokes instead of finding a way to help out in the situation. Truth be known, Brady didn't have the money to pay. Did you know that? Did you know why? Are you familiar with the legal stance the UPA took in that issue? If you don't know, keep quiet. Did any of you "UPA bashers" extend a hand to at least help out? No. You sat back and called Brady a crook and said that the UPA was ineffective. None of that was true. Did you call any of these players on the phone and offer assistance? Did you have to deal with Mika and his attitude towards this situation? No you didnt. Let me also make it clear that I am not a "paid" or "unpaid" representative of the UPA. I am not a player representative. I'm just a another professional player who gave a crap enough to get up off my butt and try to help that situation. In doing so, I came away with a lot of respect for all of the people that were involved - Mainly Frank Alvarez - who never sidestepped any of my questions and always responded honestly and did whatever he could with limited resources. At one point I sat back at my desk and wondered why nobody could come with the money that was owed. I offered to pay it out of my pocket in hopes that people like yourself would shut up. In that situation I was not on anybody's side - I was on pool's side. The UPA did everything that they possibly could. When Brady sent the money to the UPA - they had no choice but to divide that money 4 ways - 4 players were owed. The same player I was trying to help was conveniently left off the precious IPT 150 list. Was that the UPA's fault? Think about that and get back with me.

You know nothing about the UPA. You know nothing about the inside workings and politics within the game of pool, but you come on here shooting off at the mouth and talking trash about two players that do a heck of a lot to assist their fellow players. They are the representatives that we are sending to represent our country. Support them or shut up. It amazes me that out of other side of your mouth you say you love the game of pool. I question that.

You can be as excited as you want about the IPT. If you had the bb's to call me on the phone I would have told you why it wont work. Pool has failed miserably up to this point because of people like you. If you want to know why pool has less exposure than Celebrity Poker, go look in the mirror. At every turn people like yourself refuse to work and cooperate or add anything of value into the equation. Its easier to sit back and point fingers and Monday morning quarterback other people's decisions, but what have you ever done to make it better? This is an open forum go ahead and type away. My advice is to get off your butt and off the internet and do something positive like sponsoring a professional player (something our industry is miserable about doing) or infiltrate the UPA/BCA/WPA/IPT board and make a difference. Try networking and getting people together to support ALL of the tours, not just the IPT. Until you do something like that - I will view you as part of the problem - whether or not anybody else notices that.

Have a very nice weekend

 

[randyg]

Yez David, why don't you tell it like it is. Great post

 

[Blackjack]

Yez David, why don't you tell it like it is. Great post

Thanks
Its a view from the frontlines, not the sidelines.

 

[henho]

Blackjack, let me state that I only know you through the internet but I have tremendous respect for you from your writings, posts, etc. However, your die-hard loyalty to the UPA is confusing. I think it is fair to call the organization ineffective, and I don't think that resolving the myriad problems it is mired in (and that you have tried to solve personally, kudos for that) will do anything to better the otherwise miserable state of pro pool. The UPA is burying itself with small-time politics and appears to become less and less effective every year. I have read your posts expressing your viewpoint on the IPT and the UPA, but I still can't understand why the UPA deserves any poolplayer's loyalty. It seems to exist only because it is one of very few viable alternatives for the pros, a fact that I hope will change soon.

 

[Island Drive]

Alvarez

Why? Coz he is the UPAs charge: the UPA exists to send it's favored few to events, under the guise that it is bettering men's pool. It is enviable that the have been so successful in getting others to fund their playing.

So where does Frank get all his money to attend/play/stay/travel to all the UPA events and the like?

 

[Blackjack]

Blackjack, let me state that I only know you through the internet but I have tremendous respect for you from your writings, posts, etc. However, your die-hard loyalty to the UPA is confusing.

I do not have die hard loyalty to anybody except the game of pool. Show in me in my post where I have die hard loyalty. I was merely addressing somebody who has no facts and a big mouth.

I think it is fair to call the organization ineffective, and I don't think that resolving the myriad problems it is mired in (and that you have tried to solve personally, kudos for that) will do anything to better the otherwise miserable state of pro pool. The UPA is burying itself with small-time politics and appears to become less and less effective every year. I have read your posts expressing your viewpoint on the IPT and the UPA, but I still can't understand why the UPA deserves any poolplayer's loyalty. It seems to exist only because it is one of very few viable alternatives for the pros, a fact that I hope will change soon.

The UPA's lack of success accurately mirrors the support they have received. Think about that. The same people that are "praising" KT, are the same people that won't shell out a dime or a positive word to support anything that will advance the sport. If it advances their bankroll,, they are all for it. There are people celebrating because now KT is footing the bill for everything from now on. The truth is, the cheap bas***** wouldn't stick their hand in their own pockets if a gun was pointed to their head. Eydie... you know how hard it is to get added money for tournaments. Come on here and explain the looks these people give when they are asked to support ANY event - including the UPA events. The billiard industry does not want to support the players. So get off the UPA's butt. The UPA is failing the players because the industry is failing the tours. The IPT wont change that. All the IPT money will do is enable for that to continue.

I am not in contact with, nor have I spoken with anyone from the UPA since I started speaking out about this. There is this rumor that I am part of the UPA good ole boys club. That is not true. I'm not in contact with anybody, to include Frank and Tony whom I consider close friends - and IPT players!!!! I have spoken with many people within the UPA as well as other organizations and I have high opinions of those individuals. That is because I went out to meet them on my own time and on my own dime. I believe that I have a very clear understanding about the inside workings of the game of pool. I'm also a person of action. I do not expect anybody on this forum to understand what goes on behind closed doors. I've been there for over 15 years in 4 different tours. I think I might know what I am talking about. Listen clearly - THERE IS NO LOYALTY. There is none at the top - none at the bottom - none in between. The IPT will be no different. Same people - different surroundings, same problems. Until those problems are addressed, they will experience similar problems that the UPA had. The UPA is far from perfect and they understand that. They don't "Suck". They are a non-profit entity and for that reason they should not be compared to the IPT which is obviously a well financed marketing venture for Kevin Trudeau.

 

[Snapshot9]

I have tossed this around a lot ...

Blackjack, let me state that I only know you through the internet but I have tremendous respect for you from your writings, posts, etc. However, your die-hard loyalty to the UPA is confusing. I think it is fair to call the organization ineffective, and I don't think that resolving the myriad problems it is mired in (and that you have tried to solve personally, kudos for that) will do anything to better the otherwise miserable state of pro pool. The UPA is burying itself with small-time politics and appears to become less and less effective every year. I have read your posts expressing your viewpoint on the IPT and the UPA, but I still can't understand why the UPA deserves any poolplayer's loyalty. It seems to exist only because it is one of very few viable alternatives for the pros, a fact that I hope will change soon.

David ... I pretty much agree with the above. I did not come away
with a good feeling from my emailings back and forth with Frank Alverez
after my offer to help them. I have worked in corporations and have dealt
with several executive types who presented themselves in the same fashion
as Frank did. I can tell the sincere from the insincere (beaucratic bs).
Bottom line ... They have had time to do something noteworthy for the sport
and THE PLAYERS. There accomplishments, if any, are taking too long and
they are a dollar short, so to speak. People that are effective GET THE JOB
done, no matter what problems they encounter. Bill Lear had a vision of
building a business jet, hell and high water, he got it done, and better than
he hoped for. He moved from Switzerland to Wichita, Ks. built a plant, and
got the plane done on time. There are many colorful stories about him in
regards to his personality and habits.

The UPA may be fighting 'the good fight' for all I know, but I, and the average
poolplayer out there with any knowledge of Pool organizations, are not seeing
the results we all want for our sport. We can only be told wait a few more
years so many times. There lack of providing any 'real' advancement for the
sport indicates to us that perhaps they are 1. Unqualified to hold the position
they do 2. They are concerned with items they should not be 3. They
are bogged down with beaucracy, and thus rendering them ineffective for
all practical purposes. All of the UPA problems are not 5-10 year problems,
and they should be resolving them much more expeditely than they have
shown so far.

And when Frank Alverez gets chosen to represent our country in the
world 8 ball championships, it just serves to reinforce one's opinion of
the UPA in a negative light, and that the organization is not run in an
objective light.

Bottom line ... When it's time for the plane to fly, it either flys or it doesn't,
and people don't want to be told they are still waiting on parts.

Success is measured by results.

 

[Island Drive]

Nothings Changed

Blackjack, let me state that I only know you through the internet but I have tremendous respect for you from your writings, posts, etc. However, your die-hard loyalty to the UPA is confusing. I think it is fair to call the organization ineffective, and I don't think that resolving the myriad problems it is mired in (and that you have tried to solve personally, kudos for that) will do anything to better the otherwise miserable state of pro pool. The UPA is burying itself with small-time politics and appears to become less and less effective every year. I have read your posts expressing your viewpoint on the IPT and the UPA, but I still can't understand why the UPA deserves any poolplayer's loyalty. It seems to exist only because it is one of very few viable alternatives for the pros, a fact that I hope will change soon.

The UPA only seems to look at whats ahead for the next year, not whats ahead for the sports future, there is no true vision, that only comes from someone who covets/protects the sport first.

 

[Island Drive]

Operations

David ... I pretty much agree with the above. I did not come away
with a good feeling from my emailings back and forth with Frank Alverez
after my offer to help them. I have worked in corporations and have dealt
with several executive types who presented themselves in the same fashion
as Frank did. I can tell the sincere from the insincere (beaucratic bs).
Bottom line ... They have had time to do something noteworthy for the sport
and THE PLAYERS. There accomplishments, if any, are taking too long and
they are a dollar short, so to speak. People that are effective GET THE JOB
done, no matter what problems they encounter. Bill Lear had a vision of
building a business jet, hell and high water, he got it done, and better than
he hoped for. He moved from Switzerland to Wichita, Ks. built a plant, and
got the plane done on time. There are many colorful stories about him in
regards to his personality and habits.

The UPA may be fighting 'the good fight' for all I know, but I, and the average
poolplayer out there with any knowledge of Pool organizations, are not seeing
the results we all want for our sport. We can only be told wait a few more
years so many times. There lack of providing any 'real' advancement for the
sport indicates to us that perhaps they are 1. Unqualified to hold the position
they do 2. They are concerned with items they should not be 3. They
are bogged down with beaucracy, and thus rendering them ineffective for
all practical purposes. All of the UPA problems are not 5-10 year problems,
and they should be resolving them much more expeditely than they have
shown so far.

And when Frank Alverez gets chosen to represent our country in the
world 8 ball championships, it just serves to reinforce one's opinion of
the UPA in a negative light, and that the organization is not run in an
objective light.

Bottom line ... When it's time for the plane to fly, it either flys or it doesn't,
and people don't want to be told they are still waiting on parts.

Success is measured by results.

I have seen F/A in action, he prefers the high position and is always looking for the next lady to glance his way, he likes his position and flaunts it to get his fix. He is not there for the sport/game/its future, you can take that to the bank, he just happens to have a silver spoon and a silver tongue that will get him by for only so long. Wonder how he got there in the first place.???

 

[Blackjack]

David ... I pretty much agree with the above. I did not come away
with a good feeling from my emailings back and forth with Frank Alverez
after my offer to help them.

Scott
Frank and I discussed your "offer" more than once. You did not have a phone, therefore he was unable to reach you. I couldnt reach you either. You started running a regional tour shortly after that. This is the 3rd time I have said this to you publicly. Stop blaming Frank for that. He does not run the UPA. He does not hire or appoint people to positions within the UPA. The UPA has an executive board. Call them and plead your case. It is imperative that people are able to get in contact wth you when you hold a position, no matter what that position might be. You are also required to travel frequently to perform your duties - on a voluntary basis - yes I said voluntary - non profit -no paid employees. You didnt have a phone - just a contact number. That's the truth. Stop blaming Frank.

 

[beetle]

Welcome back Blackjack. My turn to respond. I've tried to use your same language to better show the parallels and irony:

Did any of you "UPA bashers" extend a hand to at least help out? No.

Have any of you IPT bashers extended a hand to at least help out? No.

You sat back and called Brady a crook and said that the UPA was ineffective.

You sat back and called Trudeau a crook and said the IPT was doomed to failure before it even started.

The same player I was trying to help was conveniently left off the precious IPT 150 list. Was that the UPA's fault? Think about that and get back with me.

OK, I've thought about it, and it's just another attempt to try and find fault with an organization that had to choose 150 names from thousands and therefore obviously had to exclude a bunch. Trudeau addressed this.

If you had the bb's to call me on the phone I would have told you why it wont work.

If you had the bb's to tell us on the forum what you so eagerly want to discuss on the phone, your position might gain some credibility, but I doubt it.

 

[Str8PoolMan]

Max Eberly (USA)
Frank Alvarez (USA

These are the two players who are going to represent the United States in the World 8-Ball championships.

Any idea how this came about? I don't know, no one else wanted to go??? No one cares about playing for a trophy in another country? No one plays 8-ball?

Regardless, Frank Alvarez has NO BETTER qualification to represent the United States as a pool player in any discipline than I do. Wait, I take it back, he is a "pro" player. Kevin was right, you can take any player and dress him up in a "pro" costume and the public will buy it. Ilike Frank, I like his enthusiasm for pool, but he is no more talented for it than I am.

Max Eberle - funny that they can't even spell his name right, is certainly qualified when it comes to pool ability. I wonder how he was chosen though? Was there some qualifier somewhere? Some national tournament to determine who the best 8 player in America is?

The WPA is a joke, the UPA and the BCA are also bad jokes.

Remember, these organizations are supposed to be making sure that the very best players make it to the world stage. But, in the end, it's disorganization ad good 'ole boy politics which decide.

John

Quite right! What were they thinking?! They should have chosen Mike Sigel and Loree Jon Jones. After all, Mike Sigel is the reigning World 8 Ball Champion and Jones was the runner-up!

 

[pooltchr]

Quite right! What were they thinking?! They should have chosen Mike Sigel and Loree Jon Jones. After all, Mike Sigel is the reigning World 8 Ball Champion and Jones was the runner-up!

Based on skill at the game, you may very well be correct!!!

I think John's point was to question the selection process that determined that Frank and Max were the two best players to represent our country in competition. If we want to send the best, wouldn't it make sense to start at the top of the UPA rankings?
Max is currently ranked 26th. Frank is ranked 30th. It just seems like even in the UPA ranks, there are a couple of dozen players who would be more obvious choices.

 

[Cornerman]

I have seen F/A in action, he prefers the high position and is always looking for the next lady to glance his way, he likes his position and flaunts it to get his fix. He is not there for the sport/game/its future, you can take that to the bank, he just happens to have a silver spoon and a silver tongue that will get him by for only so long. Wonder how he got there in the first place.???

I don't know about this. I've met Frank Alvarez a few brief moments, and he was simply one of the most pleasant pool players with whom I've ever had the pleasure of speaking. I never got the impression that he was on a pedastal, nor did I think he was looking over my shoulder trying to impress the ladies.

On the other hand, I could only see the top of his head from my pedestal, and I couldn't help but notice the tattoo on that red-head's left breast....

Fred

 

[vader93490]

You know nothing about the UPA. You know nothing about the inside workings and politics within the game of pool, but you come on here shooting off at the mouth and talking trash about two players that do a heck of a lot to assist their fellow players. They are the representatives that we are sending to represent our country. Support them or shut up. It amazes me that out of other side of your mouth you say you love the game of pool. I question that.

You can be as excited as you want about the IPT. If you had the bb's to call me on the phone I would have told you why it wont work. Pool has failed miserably up to this point because of people like you. If you want to know why pool has less exposure than Celebrity Poker, go look in the mirror.

Mr. Blackjack, I must agree with you on this statement. I'm sure you know that I smiled through the mask when I read your posting to John Barton addressing his egomaniac mumblings regarding the UPA. It's amusing to me that he had the audacity to make that sort of an ill-informed statement but it seems rather obvious that's just how the egomaniac windbag big-mouth half-cocked mentality works.

Max Eberle & Frank Alvarez have been selected to represent the United States; they should be congratulated on the honor instead of being bashed, insulted or otherwise cut to ribbons. Hopefully they will do well in the upcoming event.

With regards to the IPT, I've made my feelings known about that in the "Blackjack's Buzzkill" thread. My opinions have not changed one iota.

It is interesting & amusing to me that some folks on this forum still choose to misquote Mr. Blackjack stating that he called Kevin Trudeau a "criminal". I don't recall seeing where he posted that statement. However, I have made the statement in the past that I feel he is a con-man & a hustler. Why? Because that's what he is: a scamming criminal con-man & a hustler.

The links below were posted on this forum previously. I have re-posted them as I found them to be interesting reads:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0826051trudeau1.html

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/09/trudeaucoral.htm

It is saddening & disheartening that so many people blindly trust this guy & think he is the savior of professional pool even to this day. It's obvious that's what greed does to folks in that it blinds them to the truth about a guy like Kevin Trudeau & excusing him & other criminals from their past behavior.

Mr. Blackjack has made known his e-mail address on this forum. He has also made his phone number available. I would suggest giving him a call so that you can speak to him about a situation like this one regarding the UPA & IPT before you lash out at him.

 

[pete lafond]

With all the mixed feelings about different organizations, the one problem everyone has is that there exists no single organization overriding pool. Everyone pulls for their favorites. It really does not matter today as to who has the best organization or really how they pick players. This is up to each organizations discretion, period. These organizations are doing fine by themselves and there are many, so I say let time figure it out what will happen.

IPT just by their appearance has caused chaos and rumblings among organizations and players, and just maybe we will see unselfish improvements in these organizations as a result. So at the least the IPT caused all these organizations to look at themselves which is about time. In the end the ones that are best for the players are the ones that will remain.

Who knows, in the end a much bigger organization will appear as a result of IPT's efforts. Remember IPT is for making money and this is not a gift to pool players for the sake of gift giving. If the IPT is successful at making money, then so will pool be successful.

 

[Rude Dog]

Mr. Blackjack, I must agree with you on this statement. I'm sure you know that I smiled through the mask when I read your posting to John Barton addressing his egomaniac mumblings regarding the UPA. It's amusing to me that he had the audacity to make that sort of an ill-informed statement but it seems rather obvious that's just how the egomaniac windbag big-mouth half-cocked mentality works.

Max Eberle & Frank Alvarez have been selected to represent the United States; they should be congratulated on the honor instead of being bashed, insulted or otherwise cut to ribbons. Hopefully they will do well in the upcoming event.

With regards to the IPT, I've made my feelings known about that in the "Blackjack's Buzzkill" thread. My opinions have not changed one iota.

It is interesting & amusing to me that some folks on this forum still choose to misquote Mr. Blackjack stating that he called Kevin Trudeau a "criminal". I don't recall seeing where he posted that statement. However, I have made the statement in the past that I feel he is a con-man & a hustler. Why? Because that's what he is: a scamming criminal con-man & a hustler.

The links below were posted on this forum previously. I have re-posted them as I found them to be interesting reads:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0826051trudeau1.html

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/09/trudeaucoral.htm

It is saddening & disheartening that so many people blindly trust this guy & think he is the savior of professional pool even to this day. It's obvious that's what greed does to folks in that it blinds them to the truth about a guy like Kevin Trudeau & excusing him & other criminals from their past behavior.

Mr. Blackjack has made known his e-mail address on this forum. He has also made his phone number available. I would suggest giving him a call so that you can speak to him about a situation like this one regarding the UPA & IPT before you lash out at him.

Yea yea yea, blah blah blah, we've heard it all before from your big phucking mouth. BTW, how's your new tour shaping up? Come up with your own ideas instead of quoting BlackJack all the time.