Proposed rule change: Is the pool world ready for rack-your-own yet?

[Cuebacca]

I don't know if I like the 9 (or 10) not counting at all, but I like the rule where it doesn't count in the bottom two pockets when playing rack-your-own. It eliminates any possibility that the racking player can fix the rack to have a better chance of making the money ball which, in my opinion, is the only reasonable argument against playing rack-your-own in the first place.

Well said! I'm not 100% decided on those other 4 pockets either. I'm maybe 80% thinking no pockets should count, and maybe 20% for only the bottom two.

I have a theory that there's some funky combination of gaps that creates a rack that will make the 9-ball kick up table, but I have nothing to back it up at this time. I just think I occasionally see it fly up there as the other balls are leaving the rack too.

Either way, just taking away the 9 (10) in the foot pockets (along with rack-your-own) would be tremendous improvement, IMO.

 

[ShootingArts]

well . . .

I don't know if I like the 9 (or 10) not counting at all, but I like the rule where it doesn't count in the bottom two pockets when playing rack-your-own. It eliminates any possibility that the racking player can fix the rack to have a better chance of making the money ball which, in my opinion, is the only reasonable argument against playing rack-your-own in the first place.

I ain't going to say much on this subject but I'll bet pretty large if someone will let me rack my own nine ball with no reracks and the nine in the side pockets count.

Hu

 

[sydbarret]

buyer beware then if that's the case.

winner breaks, loser racks and the money ball should always count just like it always has.

If a guy breaks in 9 in a row during the set then flip the coin or quit. If it's a tournament then shake his hand and move on.

You ever have quads get cracked?

now obv there is much more luck in poker but in pool there are "rolls" and guess what.. they don't always go your way.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Racking your Own

I am tired of breaking my opponents rack only to get 1 or two balls past the side pocket. When my opponent breaks my racks, the rack explodes. This is a huge advantage for the breaker to rack his own racks and am 100% for it. I may not be a world class player but I can hit the break very hard and accruately. I won 2 Sardo racks in Las Vegas a few years ago by beating 30 other breakers each time (mph break speed 24.7 on bar box).

 

[Cuebacca]

buyer beware then if that's the case.

winner breaks, loser racks and the money ball should always count just like it always has.

If a guy breaks in 9 in a row during the set then flip the coin or quit. If it's a tournament then shake his hand and move on.

You ever have quads get cracked?

now obv there is much more luck in poker but in pool there are "rolls" and guess what.. they don't always go your way.

Thanks, Syd. I respect your opinion but I disagree. I don't play poker, but I think you can chalk the cracked quads up to a bad roll, whereas bad racks is more like keeping a few extra cards up one's sleeve as a little insurance policy.

The difference of course is that with pool the bad racks are usually accidental, although there are probably some who slug intentionally.

I don't want to rule all of the rolls out of pool, but I do want a "fair" start to each game without having to nit pick the rack every time.

 

[Cuebacca]

I am tired of breaking my opponents rack only to get 1 or two balls past the side pocket. When my opponent breaks my racks, the rack explodes. This is a huge advantage for the breaker to rack his own racks and am 100% for it. I may not be a world class player but I can hit the break very hard and accruately. I won 2 Sardo racks in Las Vegas a few years ago by beating 30 other breakers each time (mph break speed 24.7 on bar box).

Dang, nice breaks! See this is what I'm talking about... a guy who can break 25 mph and yet sees the rack fizzle apart from a slug. It just ain't right!

 

[sydbarret]

Thanks, Syd. I respect your opinion but I disagree. I don't play poker, but I think you can chalk the cracked quads up to a bad roll, whereas bad racks is more like keeping a few extra cards up one's sleeve as a little insurance policy.

The difference of course is that with pool the bad racks are usually accidental, although there are probably some who slug intentionally.

I don't want to rule all of the rolls out of pool, but I do want a "fair" start to each game without having to nit pick the rack every time.

Yes but it's part of the nuances of the game.. yet it certainly isn't cheating or even bad etiquette to try to give yourself a competitive edge by understanding the rack. You can always ask for a rerack.

More often than not though the the person will just get up there and rack the balls and try to do rack them tight.

Also at a beginner level this plays zero part and at an intermediate level(like a b player) the rack really isn't that big of a deal.. and I'm talking 9 ball..10 ball forget it then only at a high level is it going to matter..

and when the the situation does arise that there is a racking issue between 2 top players(or any 2 players for that matter) is it really that big a deal? Doesn't it leave a little of the "heat of the batte" in the game?

 

[LaTuna]

Rack your own!

ABSOLUTELY! The idea is to keep your opponent in his chair. The very best players would love to rack their own. Ever watch someone like Corey D. meticulously inspect his own rack? The history behind an opponent racking was to allow the loser to manipulate the balls and present a "dead chicken". No more arguments.

 

[Luxury]

As if pool on tv isn't boring enough already lets make it worse by taking away the 9 on the break win. Let's go for more soft breaks to insure a yawnfest. Forget the days of the crowd gasping when the 9 almost falls on the break and eliminate the loud cheers when the 9 goes in on the break. (Remember Souquet's incredible 9 on the break against Alcano in the World Championship match that even the Filipinos cheered loudly for?)

Yes this is the way to go. Make sure no one EVER makes any money in professional pool.

 

[Luxury]

I voted other because I don't like votes that have 2 totally different issues in one vote.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I think it would be ideal for league play, especially since a lot of the players on leagues just throw the balls into the rack and lift it up and have no idea what a bad rack is.

They do it is a way of sharking you. I would love to rack my own.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Thanks, Bob. Is the following regulation the choice that you were referring to? ...

4. Racking / Tapping of Balls
A table is said to be "tapped" when a template is placed in the rack area, balls are placed in the holes in the template and are tapped into place. This procedure replaces the use of the traditional triangle rack, and ensures a quick, tight rack. The choice of tapping over traditional racking with a triangle is at the discretion of the event organizer. Players must never tap balls; only tournament officials should tap or re-tap (if needed) the racking area.
For further information about tapping and the templates, contact the WPA Sports Director.​

That's the one. Most American players have no idea what this is about. It seems to work very well on the Eurotour and avoid arguments and bickering. If you tap the table, it doesn't make much difference who "racks."

 

[Mark Griffin]

rack your own.

FYI - I changed the Jay Swanson Memorial 9- Ball Tournament to 'rack your own" about 10 years ago. It just stops a lot of the crap and the sharking. Is it the whole answer for a world championship - I don't know - but it sure helped out on our event.

Please note that the BCAPL has just recently gone to Rack Your Own in the National event. It just seems a fairer way - especially when the time of each match is very important.

mark Griffin
BCAPL
Jay Swanson Memorial

 

[Bob Jewett]

... The only way to get a perfect 9 ball rack every time is a Sardo rack. ...

Actually, all it requires is a "tapped" table. See above.

 

[Icon of Sin]

They do it is a way of sharking you. I would love to rack my own.

Not in all cases... there is a good chunk of league players that really dont know what a good rack is, and then will take offense to you trying to show them.

 

[Cuebacca]

I voted other because I don't like votes that have 2 totally different issues in one vote.

Thanks, Luxury, for your input. I don't like riders either, but I put them together because I think the two go hand-in-hand. Basically #1 solves one problem and creates another. #2 solves that new problem.

Regarding the idea of hurting TV ratings, I'm not really sure what to say about that. I'll have to leave it up to other posters who are more knowledgeable than I am in marketing research behind pool to corroborate or debunk that idea. I hope that's not true, but if it is, it's really just more evidence that the general public needs more education on what good pool is, IMO.

All I know is that I'd be surprised if that was something that was keeping people tuning in to pool. If I saw a 9-ball go in on the break and the crowd immediately started cheering louder than they do for any other win or good shot, I'd probably turn off my TV and start yelling at the tube, "don't you guys know it only went in because of a bad rack!" LOL.

I know, I take this game way too seriously.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... and when the the situation does arise that there is a racking issue between 2 top players(or any 2 players for that matter) is it really that big a deal? Doesn't it leave a little of the "heat of the battle" in the game?

Sometimes the rack can stop a match for 5-10 minutes per rack. If you don't have an audience and you don't have a schedule, then it doesn't make much difference, except a fistfight may start between the players. That may be an interesting game and you may even get a paying audience for it, but it's not pool.

One time in the Reno tournament they were playing rack your own. One table had divots/craters such that if you racked close to the right place, the nine ball would be dead to the corner. That the table had this "problem" was well known by the players. In one match a player made the nine twice in a row. He seemed genuinely apologetic but the nines still counted -- his opponent had approved the racks. Clearly the rack was not tight on that table.

Nine ball is broken. Play something else if you're serious about the game.

 

[Cuebacca]

thanks, Bob

That's the one. Most American players have no idea what this is about. It seems to work very well on the Eurotour and avoid arguments and bickering. If you tap the table, it doesn't make much difference who "racks."

That's cool that they're going that way. If all the tables I'm ever stuck playing on were tapped, I'd be a happy camper.

Anyone who gets brand new cloth with tapped racks is all set. Maybe my proposed regulation should begin something like, "In the event that a template cannot be used to prepare the cloth, and when there is no referee available to rack the balls....."

 

[Cuebacca]

thanks, Mark.

FYI - I changed the Jay Swanson Memorial 9- Ball Tournament to 'rack your own" about 10 years ago. It just stops a lot of the crap and the sharking. Is it the whole answer for a world championship - I don't know - but it sure helped out on our event.

Please note that the BCAPL has just recently gone to Rack Your Own in the National event. It just seems a fairer way - especially when the time of each match is very important.

mark Griffin
BCAPL
Jay Swanson Memorial

That is awesome! I wish I were going to Vegas this year. This rule change alone gives me all the more reason to go next year.

Last year was my first year attending, and I was amazed to see how many competitors failed to even freeze the lead ball to either of the two balls behind it on their first attempt.

I applaud the change you've implemented. I definitely agree that it will be more fair and speed things up as well. Well done!

 

[sydbarret]

Sometimes the rack can stop a match for 5-10 minutes per rack. If you don't have an audience and you don't have a schedule, then it doesn't make much difference, except a fistfight may start between the players. That may be an interesting game and you may even get a paying audience for it, but it's not pool.

One time in the Reno tournament they were playing rack your own. One table had divots/craters such that if you racked close to the right place, the nine ball would be dead to the corner. That the table had this "problem" was well known by the players. In one match a player made the nine twice in a row. He seemed genuinely apologetic but the nines still counted -- his opponent had approved the racks. Clearly the rack was not tight on that table.

Nine ball is broken. Play something else if you're serious about the game.

Very rarely does it happen when it would last 5 minutes.. 10 virtually ever.Occasionally a neutral racker is needed.


I think people are being way too nitty on this issue imo.

But I also think 9 ball is still a good game so...