I got a chuckle reading some of these...especially 10 and 11.
Proposed TAR - TOI VS NO AIMING SYSTEM
- Thread starter HawaiianEye
- Start date
I got a chuckle reading some of these...especially 10 and 11.
It was considered an "old man's game" when I was growing up and working in a pool hall too (late 60s, early 70s). NOBODY under 45 even talked about a game of one-pocket.
I worked in a pool hall in Southeast Missouri and saw all kinds of pool and played all kinds of pool. When I was 15 (1969), I had played snooker,and one-pocket with the best players in our area for $100 a game. At around 16, I had played numerous people in numerous bars throughout the region (SEMO, KY, TN) and I was allowed in the bars to play, even though the sign said you had to be 21 to enter. By the time I was 18, there was nobody who would spot me anything, playing anything. Some tried a time or two, but I busted them in a hurry.
I played pool in Taiwan when there wasn't a pool table to be found outside a military base or club. The Taiwanese played nothing but snooker at the time. I was the pool champion of Taiwan for two consecutive years (75-76) playing 14.1 and I won tons of money playing in the military clubs.
I also lived in the Philippines for three years and played in the bars downtown and nobody ever got my money. We didn't play for big money over there, but I can remember winning hundreds of dollars in a night when we played ring games of 9-ball.
And like CJ mentioned, I think the MAIN reason I was able to beat some of the experienced one-pocket players at my early ages was that I had the ABILITY and WOULD bring out the firepower if I needed to. MOST of the one pocket players at that time played VERY conservative and concentrated on DEFENSE. 90% of them would NEVER go for an 8-count on somebody...they would bang them around the table and get them ball by ball, one by one. Some of the games took days...they would try to grind you down.
When someone takes me up on the offer to do the explanative and demonstrative example
That's a great summery and cool stories, it was GREAT back then - I can relate to what you're saying. One pocket was played by the older generation that couldn't execute the demanding shots required playing 9 Ball....this is still true, that's why 'Two Shot Shoot Out' is the most demanding game.
Some of these people don't "real eyes" that in one pocket the object is to NOT shoot any tough shots, and that drastically reduces the difficulty levels. In 'Two Shot Shoot Out' you MUST shoot difficult shots regularly to win and the strategy is just as challenging because THE SIDE POCKETS ARE ALSO A TARGET that bring in a multitude of variables.
And remember, AT ANY TIME you can make any ball and it spots playing 'Shoot Out', when this is put in the equation it tips the scale in the direction of Shoot Out over One Pocket. It's true that you can also do this in one pocket, but it's not near as strategic.
In one pocket there's just ONE POCKET to shoot at or guard against, but in Two Shot Shoot Out there's 6 POCKETS.......and you have to roll out to protect yourself against 6 times the amount of pockets EVERY TIME.
When someone takes me up on the offer to do the explanative and demonstrative comparison on the table on video or streaming video it will be a virtual massacre. 'My Game will be their Teacher'
That's a great summery and cool stories, it was GREAT back then - I can relate to what you're saying. One pocket was played by the older generation that couldn't execute the demanding shots required playing 9 Ball....this is still true, that's why 'Two Shot Shoot Out' is the most demanding game.
Some of these people don't "real eyes" that in one pocket the object is to NOT shoot any tough shots, and that drastically reduces the difficulty levels. In 'Two Shot Shoot Out' you MUST shoot difficult shots regularly to win and the strategy is just as challenging because THE SIDE POCKETS ARE ALSO A TARGET that bring in a multitude of variables.
And remember, AT ANY TIME you can make any ball and it spots playing 'Shoot Out', when this is put in the equation it tips the scale in the direction of Shoot Out over One Pocket. It's true that you can also do this in one pocket, but it's not near as strategic.
In one pocket there's just ONE POCKET to shoot at or guard against, but in Two Shot Shoot Out there's 6 POCKETS.......and you have to roll out to protect yourself against 6 times the amount of pockets EVERY TIME.
When someone takes me up on the offer to do the explanative and demonstrative comparison on the table on video or streaming video it will be a virtual massacre. 'My Game will be their Teacher'
I am sorry who are you again? I missed the memo where you get to dictate to everyone how a conversation goes. You seem quite angry. No one hijacked "your" thread here. It is going along just fine.
Have your people contact my agent.
I'll play him even One Pocket
Tell his agent I'll play him even One Pocket and use a "jump cue".
Tell his agent I'll play him even One Pocket and use a "jump cue".
After reading through CJ's points and thinking about Jay's infinite possibilities comment the question occurs to me that if a player has infinite shots when its their turn in one game and extremely limited choices in another game then the one with less choice seems harder.
Any rotation game forces the shot on the player and dictates what shots out of a very limited number of choices must be executed.
How many times have people said that 8 ball is much easier than 9 ball precisely because of the amount of choices and yet if it is one pocket vs 9 ball the same criteria makes the game harder?
I am not really on one side or the other here since I play all games at a low level. But I do find it interesting that the choices argument goes both ways.
Any rotation game forces the shot on the player and dictates what shots out of a very limited number of choices must be executed.
How many times have people said that 8 ball is much easier than 9 ball precisely because of the amount of choices and yet if it is one pocket vs 9 ball the same criteria makes the game harder?
I am not really on one side or the other here since I play all games at a low level. But I do find it interesting that the choices argument goes both ways.
No one gives a rat's ass how you play or played we are talking about pros here
LMAO! That is TRUE! I was using it as a REFERENCE point to VALIDATE CJ's statement that one-pocket was considered an "old man's game" back in the day when pool was pool.
I couldn't very well substantiate it without explaining that I could make a ball or two back in my day and I wasn't trying to blow smoke up somebody's ass like you and Lou are about making a game with each other.
When you miss as less as pros do, all games are easy.
I will say that I think 8-ball is WAY easier than 9-ball for me. I have run thousands of racks of 9-ball in my life, but have run WAY more 8-ball racks than I have 9-ball.
I played in an 8-ball league for only two years in my life, back in 1987/88, in Grand Forks, ND and I was the highest rated player in the league and I was drunk 90% of the time. I had almost perfect scores (10s) in every category; wins, break and runs, 8 on the break, etc. and there is no way I could have done the same percentages playing 9-ball.
If you think I am blowing smoke then let's bet on whether I will play or not. My $2000 to your $1000 says that IF Lou posts the money then I will post the money. I can't offer more than that. Maybe you have me confused with a nit you met somewhere but I assure you that you are wrong.
And actually, yes, you could have simply said one pocket was an old man's game when I was a young player in the 60s...we didn't need the bio to go with it.
As for being an old man's game, well my experience has been since first seeing it in Oklahoma City as a teenager that players of all ages play it.. Pool room players not bar bangers who beat up on tourists. In the pool room one pocket is a game you graduate to, not because it's "harder" but because it's interesting and more people will play for money BECAUSE it requires less offensive firepower. The common thought in the pool room is that movers beat shooters and the older folks are thought to be better movers because of all their experience and knowledge.
And that does play out that way UNTIL the shooter learns the moves. At that point the shooter wins because when it's time to shoot they can and do.
The first game of one pocket a local woman here in Xiamen played me she ran 8 and out. I left her a good 80 degree cut shot that no serious one pocket player would consider with a gun to their head. She made it like a hanger, ran into the stack splattered the balls in both directions and ran out with two more banks in there. Give this woman some training in the right moves and she could play really good one hole.
All games have their nuances and moves.
29 in a row is better....much, much, better.
29 in a row is better....much, much, better. 'The TOI Game is the Teacher'
29 in a row is better....much, much, better."See 29 Balls in a ROW Pocketed in ONE POCKET <------CLICK THIS LINK
29 in a row is better....much, much, better.
'The TOI Game is the Teacher' 29 in a row is better....much, much, better."See 29 Balls in a ROW Pocketed in ONE POCKET <------CLICK THIS LINK
Last edited:
when younger people play it they actually shoot AT their hole, not away from it.
No one is even close to guessing why '2 Shot Shoot Out' is more difficult than One Pocket......I guess because not too many people have played it, but there's another factor that makes "Two Shot" have an almost infinite amount of challenges that one pocket simply doesn't have.
One Pocket is an "Old Man's Game" played occasionally by younger people.....and when younger people play it they actually shoot AT their hole, not away from it.
I watched one "legendary" one pocket player and he was banking balls BACK in the stack.......there's plenty of champion caliber players that NEVER shoot a shot they can possibly miss......let them try to do that playing '2 Shot Shoot Out' and they will bet barbecued......EVERY TIME.
No one is even close to guessing why '2 Shot Shoot Out' is more difficult than One Pocket......I guess because not too many people have played it, but there's another factor that makes "Two Shot" have an almost infinite amount of challenges that one pocket simply doesn't have.
One Pocket is an "Old Man's Game" played occasionally by younger people.....and when younger people play it they actually shoot AT their hole, not away from it.
I watched one "legendary" one pocket player and he was banking balls BACK in the stack.......there's plenty of champion caliber players that NEVER shoot a shot they can possibly miss......let them try to do that playing '2 Shot Shoot Out' and they will bet barbecued......EVERY TIME.
Like the story in Buddy's book about him and Grady playing one hole and Grady whining that Buddy didn't know how to play one pocket and kept taking the wrong shots and running 8 and out.
BUDDY was verbally abused with alarming redundancy
he beat Efren 4 games in a row to win the set, the match and the ca$h!!!
I have a friend that I staked to play Efren Reyes for several thousand at my pool room in Dallas.
He was getting beat really bad (the first 3 games) and he came up to me and said -
"I've figured out how to win...I've figured out how I can beat Efren at this game".
....I smiled (thinking "yeah, right") and ask "ok, how are you going to do that"...he said
"I'm going to figure out what the {right} shot is, then shoot something different, it will confuse him, throw him off his game and I'll beat him".
I thought this was the craziest thing I had ever heard UNTIL he beat Efren 4 games in a row to win the set, the match and the ca$h!!!
'The Game is the Teacher'
I have a friend that I staked to play Efren Reyes for several thousand at my pool room in Dallas.
He was getting beat really bad (the first 3 games) and he came up to me and said -
"I've figured out how to win...I've figured out how I can beat Efren at this game".
....I smiled (thinking "yeah, right") and ask "ok, how are you going to do that"...he said
"I'm going to figure out what the {right} shot is, then shoot something different, it will confuse him, throw him off his game and I'll beat him".
I thought this was the craziest thing I had ever heard UNTIL he beat Efren 4 games in a row to win the set, the match and the ca$h!!!
'The Game is the Teacher'
EDIT: Meant to quote Johns post "Like the story in Buddy's book about him and Grady playing one hole and Grady whining that Buddy didn't know how to play one pocket and kept taking the wrong shots and running 8 and out."
In 98 or so, me and Alex Pagulayan were walking into the Camel pro tourney here in town and ran into Grady as we were walking to the tourney arena. Grady stops us and tells Alex how he plays so good and he's heard that Alex was wanting to learn one pocket. So Grady offers to play Alex some one pocket, "you know.... Cheap, like $200-300 a game", to help him learn (Grady was thinking free money).... I tell Grady that we were just leaving and we would meet him at the poolroom... LOL.
Long story short, Alex wins 4 games at $300/game in less than 20 minutes.... IIRC, 3 of the games Alex ran 8 and out. One game Grady broke bad and left a tough back cut that Alex drilled, went to the rail and slammed the pack and ran out and the other two Alex found a dead one in the stack, fired, and ran out. Grady was LIVID!!! "This is no way to learn the game!!!" Alex was just like "You leave me a shot and I run out???" and something about don't be mad at me, you left me something to shoot at....