Proposed TAR - TOI VS NO AIMING SYSTEM

I Stand Corrected

pt109 said:
Anytime you push, I can say 'shoot again'.
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That is correct, that's why we called it "SHOOT OUT"....because someone was always saying either "shoot, or shoot again".

The "Roll Out, or Push Out" is when you actually rolled or pushed the cue ball to a particular place on the table......then your opponent would have the choice to "SHOOT" or make you "SHOOT AGAIN".

I know you know this, pt109, just verifying if for anyone that wants to learn the game. At least we all agree that it is the best way to gamble playing 9 Ball and 10 Ball.

Wait a minute, there's a few that will not agree with anything I say.....I stand corrected. :thumbup:

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a very strategic move....especially if your opponent has certain weaknesses.

BeiberLvr said:
Somebody can clarify. But I'm pretty sure you can't roll out after someone just rolled out.

That would just be pointless.
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It's actually a very strategic move....especially if your opponent has certain weaknesses.


The main difference between "One Foul" rules and "Two Foul" rules is you get ONE rollout, and you can take after your opponent rolls out if you choose. This keeps one player that banks, cuts or makes long shots REALLY well from putting his opponent at a complete disadvantage on the "Shoot Outs"(roll outs).

When I was matching up a game I would TRY to get the other player to play "any two fouls" which meant you COULD NOT roll out after a roll out......this would allow me to roll out to jump shots, long, end rail shots, or other shots I could make, but my opponent couldn't.....some of them would go for this, and others wouldn't......either way, it's worth a try 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
the choke factor

overlooked is the CHOKE factor. Numerous dead eyed dicks (Roberts, Florence, etc.,) couldn't hit the end rail playing 1P because of increased perceived pressure when a chance to let their stroke out presented itself in conjunction with the difficulty associated with getting into the "zone" because of a lack of pace.
 
Push vs One

With all the "biz" about push out 9 and one pocket a friend and I decided to give it a try.
The 9 ball game we had covered, and the addition of the push was easy to incorporate.
One pocket on the other hand was not one of the games that we played and it took some getting use to with the help of some old timers to point stuff out.
9 ball is not at the top of my game list but it is great for practice and a fun game sometimes. 9 ball with the push turns it into a whole new game. I wish I could describe it better but it's like starting a new game with every shot. It jumped up two spots on our lists and we both said it is the only way to play this game now, one foul is dead to us now. But that's just our opinion.
The game of one pocket, WORE. US. OUT. Our first serious game took over an hour.
It was defensive shot after defensive shot till all the balls are at the other end of the F'n table. Then it was a mental game of not making the mistake that lets the balls loose. We like this game and will be playing a lot more of it.
As for the argument witch one is more difficult and takes more skill, it would be the 9 with the push. It changes faster. Your strengths and weaknesses are on display every shot. We knew how each other plays so that made it worse. One pocket is a deep game that takes tons of patience and concentration. If Job played pool, he would play one pocket. There is so much more to it it almost isn't fair to compare but I thought I'd give it a try.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Why does a better shot maker win in Shoot Out and not One Pocket? Because the shots are more challenging, that's one of the reasons....and the situations are more difficult because you are usually shooting the length of the table off the end rail.

Too bad you've not played the game, I really think you would enjoy it...you know what they say "rejection prior to investigation" makes life much less interesting. ;) 'The Inner Game is Your Teacher' (once you Real Eyes is)
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Your still going to have the same shot's in pocket apiece .You also have a little luxury of letting whitey go a little.One pocket not only are you trying to pocket the ball but whitey has to be on a string all the time.Get a bad roll in one pocket your probably done.push out ...good thing you can.;)

I also think there's a little pressure added to certain situations when trying to score in one pocket.Running balls while your opponent has balls around his hole.This can be a little unnerving .

Been so long ago I think I might of played it.....the game would've been to slow for me.I was always in to big of a hurry to get rid of my money.


Anthony
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YubaCushion said:
With all the "biz" about push out 9 and one pocket a friend and I decided to give it a try.
The 9 ball game we had covered, and the addition of the push was easy to incorporate.
One pocket on the other hand was not one of the games that we played and it took some getting use to with the help of some old timers to point stuff out.
9 ball is not at the top of my game list but it is great for practice and a fun game sometimes. 9 ball with the push turns it into a whole new game. I wish I could describe it better but it's like starting a new game with every shot. It jumped up two spots on our lists and we both said it is the only way to play this game now, one foul is dead to us now. But that's just our opinion.
The game of one pocket, WORE. US. OUT. Our first serious game took over an hour.
It was defensive shot after defensive shot till all the balls are at the other end of the F'n table. Then it was a mental game of not making the mistake that lets the balls loose. We like this game and will be playing a lot more of it.
As for the argument witch one is more difficult and takes more skill, it would be the 9 with the push. It changes faster. Your strengths and weaknesses are on display every shot. We knew how each other plays so that made it worse. One pocket is a deep game that takes tons of patience and concentration. If Job played pool, he would play one pocket. There is so much more to it it almost isn't fair to compare but I thought I'd give it a try.
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Since you and your friend are willing to try new things, the next step would be to try 14.1. Running ball after ball is addicting. And just like in the Hustler, you look at a rack and just see that dead ball, buried in the rack, that will go in a pocket, and wham you hit it right, te ball goes and the rack opens up to keep your run going......you have to experience it to understand. Or doing 2-3 combos in a roll to keep going.....give it a try. Instead of play safe where you only have to consider one pocket to avoid, playing safe requires you to consider 6 pockets to avoid.

There is no hide and seek like 9 ball or 8 ball as any ball is open......no push out bullshit.

Something I learned recently research pool games history is that 1 pocket has been around a very long time, longer than 14.1.

I believe those that limit themselves to one discipline of the pool games are inhibiting themselves from being the best pool player they can be.
 
'Two Shot Shoot Out' makes "One Foul" pale in comparison.

YubaCushion said:
With all the "biz" about push out 9 and one pocket a friend and I decided to give it a try.
The 9 ball game we had covered, and the addition of the push was easy to incorporate.
One pocket on the other hand was not one of the games that we played and it took some getting use to with the help of some old timers to point stuff out.
9 ball is not at the top of my game list but it is great for practice and a fun game sometimes. 9 ball with the push turns it into a whole new game. I wish I could describe it better but it's like starting a new game with every shot. It jumped up two spots on our lists and we both said it is the only way to play this game now, one foul is dead to us now. But that's just our opinion.
The game of one pocket, WORE. US. OUT. Our first serious game took over an hour.
It was defensive shot after defensive shot till all the balls are at the other end of the F'n table. Then it was a mental game of not making the mistake that lets the balls loose. We like this game and will be playing a lot more of it.
As for the argument witch one is more difficult and takes more skill, it would be the 9 with the push. It changes faster. Your strengths and weaknesses are on display every shot. We knew how each other plays so that made it worse. One pocket is a deep game that takes tons of patience and concentration. If Job played pool, he would play one pocket. There is so much more to it it almost isn't fair to compare but I thought I'd give it a try.
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Yes, without question 'Two Shot Shoot Out' makes "One Foul" pale in comparison.

I really like One Pocket, but it's a very different type game and although it's strategic, it's far more defensively designed than the SHOOT OUT> the Two Shot enables you to see the absolute finest in shot making, where as in One Foul you may just see run outs and safeties most of the time......no real "Sparring".....it's more like great boxers hitting a speed and heavy bag with no real "hand to hand" combat to enjoy......that's actually a good analogy.

'The Shoot Out is the Teacher'
 
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duckie said:
I believe those that limit themselves to one discipline of the pool games are inhibiting themselves from being the best pool player they can be.
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While I do agree with your statement 100%. I do hope you understand the hypocrisy of you saying such a thing.
 
one pocket players know how to get behind the "trouble" balls.

8pack said:
CJ Wiley said:
Your still going to have the same shot's in pocket apiece .You also have a little luxury of letting whitey go a little.One pocket not only are you trying to pocket the ball but whitey has to be on a string all the time.Get a bad roll in one pocket your probably done.push out ...good thing you can.;)

I also think there's a little pressure added to certain situations when trying to score in one pocket.Running balls while your opponent has balls around his hole.This can be a little unnerving .

Been so long ago I think I might of played it.....the game would've been to slow for me.I was always in to big of a hurry to get rid of my money.


Anthony
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Yeah, your points are not exactly stellar.....it appears that you've not played enough.. The pressure you speak of is not a factor, one pocket players know how to get behind the "trouble" balls....also the "rolls" you speak of don't really apply to one pocket that much, it's more of a controlled game unless the player doesn't know how to go into the "nest".
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.the "key balls" are the other part of the equation.

duckie said:
Since you and your friend are willing to try new things, the next step would be to try 14.1. Running ball after ball is addicting. And just like in the Hustler, you look at a rack and just see that dead ball, buried in the rack, that will go in a pocket, and wham you hit it right, te ball goes and the rack opens up to keep your run going......you have to experience it to understand. Or doing 2-3 combos in a roll to keep going.....give it a try. Instead of play safe where you only have to consider one pocket to avoid, playing safe requires you to consider 6 pockets to avoid.

There is no hide and seek like 9 ball or 8 ball as any ball is open......no push out bullshit.

Something I learned recently research pool games history is that 1 pocket has been around a very long time, longer than 14.1.

I believe those that limit themselves to one discipline of the pool games are inhibiting themselves from being the best pool player they can be.
Click to expand...

Yes, straight pool is very challenging indeed, it takes at least two weeks to prepare for a major tournament. Understanding the "break balls" is the key, and speaking of "key"........the "key balls" are the other part of the equation.

14.1 is a really good practice game to get ready for one pocket and 9 Ball tournaments and many of us (Johnny Archer, Earl, etc) will use it for training to improve concentration and touch for delicate ball running situations.
 
real eyes realize the real lies

BeiberLvr said:
While I do agree with your statement 100%. I do hope you understand the hypocrisy of you saying such a thing.
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Wow, does he "real eyes" when he contradicts himself like that? :eek:

"practice what you preach, and learn TOI before you teach" - then practice all games. ;)

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These are the general rules of 'TWO SHOT SHOOT OUT".

prad said:
Where I can find the rules for 2-shot shoot out ?? I recently started playing pool so this is the first time I have heard of it.
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*It's played just like "One Foul" except you can "roll out / push out" after any shot you choose.

*When you come to the table and you're "hooked" you are allowed to "roll out" (it's also called push out...they are the same thing)

*When your opponent rolls out you, in tern can roll out as well, if this happens you are both on "ONE FOUL" and if someone fouls or scratches the next shot it's "ball in hand" (exactly like today's ball in hand).

*If the player scratches the opponent has "ball in hand" behind the line which is straight across the table, two diamonds up from the breaking end of the table....it's also called "in the kitchen" in slang terms.

*If the object ball is "in the kitchen" it spots up and the incoming player must shoot a "spot shot" OR pass the shot to his opponent that's now on "ONE FOUL".....if they scratch again or foul it's ball in hand anywhere on the table.

*Typically ALL balls spot, but we also played "only spot the ball before the money ball"....which was the usually the 9 ball unless there was a handicap involved, then it could be the ball before the 8 Ball, or 7 Ball, etc.

These are the general rules of 'TWO SHOT SHOOT OUT".....they are without a doubt (imo) the best rules for 9 Ball and 10 Ball every used and should be brought back to a now withering game......before it's too late. :( The Game is the Teacher
 
CJ Wiley said:
8pack said:
Yeah, your points are not exactly stellar.....it appears that you've not played enough.. The pressure you speak of is not a factor, one pocket players know how to get behind the "trouble" balls....also the "rolls" you speak of don't really apply to one pocket that much, it's more of a controlled game unless the player doesn't know how to go into the "nest".
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Yes there are times when scoring you will be faced with selling out if you miss.
I've played enough to understand getting behind balls.

Lucky for you I'm not a top player,you would get played.;):p

Anthony
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sfleinen said:
However, just even thinking about the sheer size of "wall real estate" needed to display CJ's "I love me!" wall boggles the mind. Yowzers! :yikes:

-Sean
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There is one in China... but I think it might be too small.
 
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