Pro's don't need that fancy $5000 crap to do well

[Jack Madden]

when me and our local cuesmith/cuemaker bobby callahan discuss the price of cues,the way a cue plays,cue in general.he always brings up watchin keith mcCready play in a tournament where he didn't have a cue (or didn't want to use his) and just grabbed one and won the tournament.now i do have to say that he probally had the tourny way out classed but it is impressive.i know myself i can play with just about any cue along the lines of an "average" cue (58 in,19oz,13mm shaft)

You have specific things you want in a cue 58in, 19oz, 13mm - even if this is average or standard - it is what makes you comfortable when playing. When I built Keith McCready a couple custom cues (playing, break cue, jump cue) last summer, he was very very specific about the specs he wanted on the cues (balance point, weight, etc). A lot of players would not be comfortable playing with the specs Keith wanted. So even if a good player "can play with a broom handle" and play with "one size fits all cue" --- they are like everyone else and prefer certain specs from tips, shaft size, weight, etc which a custom cue can give them.

 

[bruin70]

However, if you are willing to stake him in a game, on favorable terms, on the condition that he plays with a good house cue, and he's able to warm up sufficiently with it, I think he'd do it. Especially if you sweeten the pot.

Flex

i wouldn't do something that stupid....and he wouldn't do it if he were playing his peers.

 

[bruin70]

what kind of "cheap players cue" are we talking about here?????

a plain jane tascarella

a converted titleist

a mali

a house cue

a no-name from a sporting goods store, next to the fishing rods

WHAT?????

imo, the OP describes two very different cues. first he says 5k cue, which assumes a fancy inlayed cue and therefore ALSO ASSUMES it's counterpart plain jane(ie there is no diff in hit between a fancy tad vs a plain jane tad). then the op mentions cheapest playing cue, and THAT could be one of the last two that i mentioned above. and yes there IS a difference between any tad and any big 5 sporting goods store cue.

 

[cornerstone]

A $5,000 cue isn't going to help your game. You really don't get a pop until you get to around $10,000. You pick up another ball or two at $20,000 but it stays pretty flat until about $50,000. After that, it's hard to say.

Chris

I need to raise the price on the gina about 10.00

 

[berlowmj]

These are exquisite art objects, but do you ever customize cues based upon the physiology & game of the customer?

 

[Flex]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex

However, if you are willing to stake him in a game, on favorable terms, on the condition that he plays with a good house cue, and he's able to warm up sufficiently with it, I think he'd do it. Especially if you sweeten the pot.

i wouldn't do something that stupid....and he wouldn't do it if he were playing his peers.

That's interesting. What's the stupid part you're referring to? And how do you know he wouldn't do it if he were playing his peers? There are some people who can play with anything decent. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out he has that kind of skill.

Flex

 

[cornerstone]

d-26 1986 proto type d-26 2006

the proto and the new

 

[cornerstone]

here you go a 6 point one of 2

this was a proto type found in the factory

 

[Fatboy]

wow a D-26 was my first real cue, i loved it, my dad bought it for me,

 

[6 Pocket Mike]

Well now that I think about it I have a friend who shoots a pretty strong game and even though he has a few thousand dollar Jacoby's and a pretty nice Mcdaniel's he perfers a 20.00 dollar Harvord cue bought at big 5 sporting goods with a 314 shaft that he had the panther removed so it looks like a complete beater. Talk about a 500 dollar saddle on a 50 dollar horse! I can't say anything because he shoots great with it LOL. talk about a perfect road dog

 

[Jack Madden]

These are exquisite art objects, but do you ever customize cues based upon the physiology & game of the customer?

Yes - players game can dictate different specs for different games.

 

[bruin70]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex





That's interesting. What's the stupid part you're referring to? And how do you know he wouldn't do it if he were playing his peers? There are some people who can play with anything decent. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out he has that kind of skill.

Flex

because, flex, in a game that matters, a pro isn't going to putz around in situations where one mistake whether mental, physical, or even equipment, can make a difference in winning or losing. everything has to be "there", and if you can control it, like say the equipment you use, you do it because you want to put your best foot forward. the last thing a pro wants to do is blame something he could've controled.

 

[Flex]

because, flex, in a game that matters, a pro isn't going to putz around in situations where one mistake whether mental, physical, or even equipment, can make a difference in winning or losing. everything has to be "there", and if you can control it, like say the equipment you use, you do it because you want to put your best foot forward. the last thing a pro wants to do is blame something he could've controled.

Very, very, very interesting.

I suppose one could focus a bit on what a "pro" is... but I'll not go there right now.

Tell me, do you not think there are players, or "pros" or whomever, who would agree to use a house cue as a spot in a match?

I bet there are...

In any case, thanks for your opinions.

Flex

 

[bruin70]

Very, very, very interesting.

I suppose one could focus a bit on what a "pro" is... but I'll not go there right now.

Tell me, do you not think there are players, or "pros" or whomever, who would agree to use a house cue as a spot in a match?

I bet there are...

In any case, thanks for your opinions.

Flex

but flex,,,,you are now CHANGING the parameters of the game to include the use of a lesser cue as part of the gamble. IT IS PART OF THE HANDICAP. it is what he is giving up to square the odds,,,in other words, by your example you have just admitted that the cue makes the difference.

i don't believe the op has answered my earlier question about just exactly is a "cheap hitting cue" in this discussion. page 7

 

[memikey]

As with putting in golf, a lot of it is in your head.

If you genuinely believe you have in your hands a cue of a size, weight and nature which helps you stroke well......you probably will, end of

 

[Flex]

but flex,,,,you are now CHANGING the parameters of the game to include the use of a lesser cue as part of the gamble. IT IS PART OF THE HANDICAP. it is what he is giving up to square the odds,,,in other words, by your example you have just admitted that the cue makes the difference.

i don't believe the op has answered my earlier question about just exactly is a "cheap hitting cue" in this discussion. page 7

Of course the cue makes a difference. However, if someone really believes that there are no house cues that can play jam up, well, I humbly submit, they are most likely mistaken...

If that person really believes the house cue is inherently inferior, then using it, in certain circumstances, is a handicap, and therefore equivalent to a spot.

I don't see how saying that fundamentally changes the terms of the debate.

Now, finding such a house cue may not be very easy. However, just think for a moment about a situation where custom cues were forbidden in a tournament, as some propose should happen to jump cues, and require that no two or more piece cues are permissable, and that house cues of the Dufferin, Valley and so on make, need to be used to play.

Don't you think that if the purse was large enough that you'd have pros from all over getting in it for the cheese?

Flex

 

[bruin70]

Of course the cue makes a difference. However, if someone really believes that there are no house cues that can play jam up, well, I humbly submit, they are most likely mistaken...

If that person really believes the house cue is inherently inferior, then using it, in certain circumstances, is a handicap, and therefore equivalent to a spot.

I don't see how saying that fundamentally changes the terms of the debate.

Now, finding such a house cue may not be very easy. However, just think for a moment about a situation where custom cues were forbidden in a tournament, as some propose should happen to jump cues, and require that no two or more piece cues are permissable, and that house cues of the Dufferin, Valley and so on make, need to be used to play.

Don't you think that if the purse was large enough that you'd have pros from all over getting in it for the cheese?

Flex

before you make this a loaded question because you're not asking the players to give anything,,,,it is essentially a "freebie" competition/experiment,,,howz about a large purse,,,you come in a pick a cue off the wall,,,AND there's a huge entry fee.

in order to make this work there has to be a risk the players must take to switch to a house cue. otherwise it's just a "what have i got to lose" scenario.

anywho,,,cue distinctions are always made. "i ran xxx in 14.1 WITH A HOUSE CUE" how often have you heard that or seen that asterick on a pool run as if implying the feat were done with lesser equipment. obviously, that pool player went around the room looking for a good hitting house cue or one that felt good to him....may have even found the perfect cue, yet even then THAT distinction will always be made. "oh, yeah, i saw ginky run 8 racks...and he used a house cue"

whether it's mental or did it really make a difference, perception becomes reality. it is what it is.

 

[Flex]

before you make this a loaded question because you're not asking the players to give anything,,,,it is essentially a "freebie" competition/experiment,,,howz about a large purse,,,you come in a pick a cue off the wall,,,AND there's a huge entry fee.

in order to make this work there has to be a risk the players must take to switch to a house cue. otherwise it's just a "what have i got to lose" scenario.

anywho,,,cue distinctions are always made. "i ran xxx in 14.1 WITH A HOUSE CUE" how often have you heard that or seen that asterick on a pool run as if implying the feat were done with lesser equipment. obviously, that pool player went around the room looking for a good hitting house cue or one that felt good to him....may have even found the perfect cue, yet even then THAT distinction will always be made. "oh, yeah, i saw ginky run 8 racks...and he used a house cue"

whether it's mental or did it really make a difference, perception becomes reality. it is what it is.

Great post. I agree wholeheartedly with it.

One of the variables, and it isn't a small one, is whether the house cue that is available will be good enough to do the trick.

However, if we're not talking about taking a cue off the wall and playing, but bringing in your own house cue type cue, such as Dufferin or Valley or whatever, and it's the traditional cue, with a tip of your choosing, and a shaft that has been tapered to your liking, and so on, and you've played with that cue and love it, then it's a whole different ball game. I know a pretty good player in Chicago who plays jam up with his own house cue that he brings with him to play in tournaments and so on. I'm told he plays about Larry Schwartz's speed...

Gotta say though that I'm a sucker for a really handsome cue. One of these days I'll probably splurge and get one.

Flex

 

[ShootingArts]

hard to find a case

However, if we're not talking about taking a cue off the wall and playing, but bringing in your own house cue type cue, such as Dufferin or Valley or whatever, and it's the traditional cue, with a tip of your choosing, and a shaft that has been tapered to your liking, and so on, and you've played with that cue and love it, then it's a whole different ball game. I know a pretty good player in Chicago who plays jam up with his own house cue that he brings with him to play in tournaments and so on. I'm told he plays about Larry Schwartz's speed...Flex

The only handicap to a cue like that is that it is hard to find a case for it. The cue will outplay most of the two-piece sticks in the average group of pool players. A good one piece stick set up for you is magic. I kept one behind the bar at a friend's place and seriously considered buying a half-dozen to seed the places I played regularly.

Hu

 

[skins]

Funny story about cues. An old friend of mine used to play really well. He would win very consistantly using an old beat up Dufferin that rolls straight but looks like it is used as a regular weapon in bar fights. One year he decided to get a new cue. It was a beauty $600 cue that played great for me. He never won another event. To him the Dufferin was exactly what he needed and best fit his game. Once someone finds what works best for them the price is secondary.

imo the biggest misconception about cues is thinking that any cue will perform better than any other cue to it's specific user. a great player can play with just about any cue and can succeed if played with long enough. over time their stroke will "learn" the certain characteristics of the cue and be able to work with it. but on the other hand if the player changes cues that doesn't mean that their "stroke memory" will be affected if 1. they know what makes their cue play it's specific way and find one that plays similar and if buying a custom 2. knowing what specs for the new cue need to be addressed to make it perform similar to the old one. this is not that easy to do and too many players couldn't tell you why their cues play the way they do and wouldn't know the first thing about what to change in the new cue to make them play similar. this is one of the reasons they keep playing with the same cue for a long time, though maybe wanting a change, and is probably the reason for the players issues in the previous post. he probably bought a "rack" cue or one not made specifically for him by a custom cue maker to his specs and needs and as mentioned might not of even been able to tell a cue maker what those needs are anyway. all that said this doesn't mean that you can't pick up any cue and it not work relatively quickly for you because you can but it can be a crap shoot and waste allot of time and create allot of headaches. if your game is solid and you want to keep it that way but also want to "upgrade", it's a good thing to know some of the criteria needed for your next cue and contact a maker than can work with you and craft one that will perform similar and probably even feel better as well. good cue makers know what characteristics make cues play the way they do and can somewhat adjust their build accordingly to accommodate a players needs. depending on some of the materials used the "hit" can feel slightly different, allot of times much better, than their other cue but the playability of the cue will be very similar and the player will get used to the cue's new feel relatively quick because of it's similar performance to the previous cue. if the player in this post were to have a good idea of what made his Dufferin play the way it did he could have searched for another cue similar, which for reasons previously mentioned may not be the best road to take (as was in his situation), or went to a good custom maker that could have made a cue that played very similar and even felt better. my .02