the only person i have ever seen not get *A LOT* better after playing 12/hrs a day is me.
thats pretty good odds imo

thats pretty good odds imo

Joey:
"Ya know I luv ya ta bits" (as the Brits would say in a pub). But methinks we're also downplaying the "see no evil, hear no evil" approach to "slipping one in." And I know you're not going to actually deny that takes place on these boards, right Joey?
Aiming system advocates, being on that side on the fence, don't see a problem with it, because "it's getting the word out" afterall. You know, free publicity and all that jazz. Heck, there's nothing wrong with that -- that's capitalism marketing at its finest. Attach a word or phrase to an object, so that it gets eyeballs and eardrums (e.g. "...and we bring you this Lucasi Hybrid match score update for the 2011 Derby City Classic...").
But it was the back-pedaling that got me. The OP wanted to use an example to demonstrate what he meant by "pros being pros precisely because they're holding something back," and he wanted to use an example. This is great -- show by example! I believe in that; I'm listening. But he dropped the "aiming system" bomb. Then, he spends a good portion of the post back-pedaling, stating how he didn't want it to be turned into another aiming system thread, and it was used only as an example. But wait, we're not done yet! To finish with a flourish, this outright pitch was used as a coupe de gras, "In the words of my greatest teacher thus far after he taught me THE aiming system and how easy it was to pocket ANYTHING after he taught me....." It's like stealing aint it?!" Boy, a lot of ground was covered on that one! Tell me that wasn't a Mariano Rivera closer cut-fastball right across the plate?
Do I think pros withhold things / secrets? SURE I DO. And I got news for ya: we all do, in some way/shape/fashion. When we (you and I, Joey) play 1-pocket, am I going to show ya all my moves? Sure I am -- but only after I execute them on ya to show how effective they are. (And yes, after all's said and done, I'll show ya what I was thinking and why I chose that particular move -- but not before that move has first stung.)
Are the amateurs "entitled" to have that pros' knowledge? Hell no. And depending on who that amateur is, we can even make that a "f*ck no!" (Those that whine and complain about pros not sharing "all" their secrets definitely are not even walking on the correct road to deserving them.) What in the h*ll makes an amateur think he/she is entitled to know all the pros secrets? I'll tell ya. Quick fix. Don't want to put the work in to earn it and most importantly, understand it fully. Wants quick and easy satisfaction. Click the fingers, and voila! It's there.
A crystal example of this goes back to that poster that wanted to know which chapter, which page, which paragraph, and finally, which sentence he needs to read in Bob Fancher's Pleasures of Small Motions to get the maximum benefit, rather than reading this small 140-page paperback book (less than the size of today's TV Guide) in its entirety. People like that, and people that accuse the pros of being pros precisely because they don't release everything, are one and the same in my book.
I'll give the shirt off my back to a player that shows not only interest, but INITIATIVE and MOTIVATION to really learn this game. I'd want nothing more than to have that player -- who has earned my respect and trust that he/she will do good for the sport we both love -- to further the knowledge I'd passed on to him/her. I have to be assured, though, that it's not a short-term fad with this person, or otherwise an attempt to end-run hard work to acquire the skills, only to admonish them later with a wave of the hand, "Oh, that was easy." This ain't the Staples red push-button!
There's a nice Thoreau quote about this, but my brain is kind of fried at the moment, and I don't want to misquote it. But I think you know the one I'm referring to.
-Sean
the only person i have ever seen not get *A LOT* better after playing 12/hrs a day is me.
thats pretty good odds imo
![]()
If I remember it correctly,
.
.
.
Sometimes you know things happen, but finding out why can shed quite a bit of light on what's now more possible.
Very true FB but lets not get sidetracked at the root of this thread which is the fact that PROS do keep much of what they've learned in pool secret from the rest.....just the nature of the beast
I keep secrets.......many of them.....about not only pool, but many of life's mysteries.....and I'm not telling you any of them.....ever......unless you show up at my place with a nice cigar and a good scotch.....by the time we hit the end of the bottle, I might tell you something, just maybe....
Sean, my friend I have to send you a :clapping: and a :canoodle:. LOL
I don't know if the thread starter had the slipping the old aiming system thing planned or not but you do bring up some good points about the continuity of the aiming thing/slip it under the wire. I still don't know if it was intentional or not. If he was being sly, that's just plain wrong. If he was getting in his points that aiming systems are meaningful and this is the only way he thought he could get by the screening crew, I just don't see that much wrong with it. Personally, I prefer the more direct approach in getting a message out but he doesn't have to be :deadhorse::smash::slap: if that is the case either.
I think this thread has given me impetus for a new thread on aiming systems and I'm going to start one and hope that you will join me. Your perspectives, intelligence and civility are always welcome at my table even if we are on opposing sides of an issue and so far, I haven't found even one issue that you and I are on competely opposite sides.
Your perspectives are always fair and honest and especially civil even when they are riding on my turnip truck.
The purpose of the new thread on aiming systems is to detail why the threads create so much heat. Some acknowledgments on BOTH SIDES of the fence are in order. The proponents, the foes, the antagonists and the naysayers will be invited to extend the olive branch to their opposing posters by making one perspective that they can concede. I will start the thread with the infamous "Aiming Systems - Why the PROBLEMS?". Each person will be invited to make a different statement(s) in their own words that acknowledges the position of the other sides point of view.Any person who chooses to use this thread to incite or to push another person's buttons will be RED REPPED by me. Since, I have never red-repped another poster in my years on this forum, some may be wanting to be first. :grin: but I honestly hope that some of the animosity that has become prevalent on this forum can be nullified and even eliminated. We'll see. (BTW, I don't see any animosity in your posts and you don't make an effort to needle any particular individual other than me (but that's ok :grin.
Thanks again Sean. I wish you were a lot closer to give me that spanking at one pocket that I so richly deserve. See you on the next aiming system thread.
To everyone who chooses to participate, try to make only one statement so that others may participate in the process. Thanks,
JoeyA
Sean, my friend I have to send you a :clapping: and a :canoodle:. LOL
I don't know if the thread starter had the slipping the old aiming system thing planned or not but you do bring up some good points about the continuity of the aiming thing/slip it under the wire. I still don't know if it was intentional or not. If he was being sly, that's just plain wrong. If he was getting in his points that aiming systems are meaningful and this is the only way he thought he could get by the screening crew, I just don't see that much wrong with it. Personally, I prefer the more direct approach in getting a message out but he doesn't have to be :deadhorse::smash::slap: if that is the case either.
I think this thread has given me impetus for a new thread on aiming systems and I'm going to start one and hope that you will join me. Your perspectives, intelligence and civility are always welcome at my table even if we are on opposing sides of an issue and so far, I haven't found even one issue that you and I are on competely opposite sides.
Your perspectives are always fair and honest and especially civil even when they are riding on my turnip truck.
The purpose of the new thread on aiming systems is to detail why the threads create so much heat. Some acknowledgments on BOTH SIDES of the fence are in order. The proponents, the foes, the antagonists and the naysayers will be invited to extend the olive branch to their opposing posters by making one perspective that they can concede. I will start the thread with the infamous "Aiming Systems - Why the PROBLEMS?". Each person will be invited to make a different statement(s) in their own words that acknowledges the position of the other sides point of view.Any person who chooses to use this thread to incite or to push another person's buttons will be RED REPPED by me. Since, I have never red-repped another poster in my years on this forum, some may be wanting to be first. :grin: but I honestly hope that some of the animosity that has become prevalent on this forum can be nullified and even eliminated. We'll see. (BTW, I don't see any animosity in your posts and you don't make an effort to needle any particular individual other than me (but that's ok :grin.
Thanks again Sean. I wish you were a lot closer to give me that spanking at one pocket that I so richly deserve. See you on the next aiming system thread.
To everyone who chooses to participate, try to make only one statement so that others may participate in the process. Thanks,
JoeyA
This is all so true Joey!
I'm sure you remember when I had my conversation with Hal about 8-10 years ago and IMMEDIATELY improved by 2 balls in 9 ball. (literally, after a 2 hour phone call I could now pot any ball on the table....still couldnt think straight or move the que ball to where it needed to go, but getting the ball to the hole was no longer a problem).
Unfortunately i think i platuead there! lol....
Aiming systems/knowledge pro's have (i had been playing for 5 years before i learned about outside english for cuts), etc can all RAPIDLY get a bangers game to C level pool. After that, Getting to B/A level requires putting the hours in and nothing else IMO.
(((something for you new thread could be Aiming system vs. game.....I think hal's system/cte is best suited for straight pool....8'ball/9'ball requires too many cheating shots/or english/follow/draw to get whitey where you need it and in 1p CTE has almost no value whatsoever...again IMO)))).
How good does the scotch have to be?
Can we start at Glenlivet, or do we need to step up to MaCallan?
(God I miss drinking ScotchThe things we do to stay married...)
I'm cheap......don't care about brands, just taste.....if it's good, it can be any price....if you are man enough to make that drive down, I'll drink whatever you bring :grin:
Don't forget the cigars :wink:
This is all so true Joey!
I'm sure you remember when I had my conversation with Hal about 8-10 years ago and IMMEDIATELY improved by 2 balls in 9 ball. (literally, after a 2 hour phone call I could now pot any ball on the table....still couldnt think straight or move the que ball to where it needed to go, but getting the ball to the hole was no longer a problem).
Unfortunately i think i platuead there! lol....
Aiming systems/knowledge pro's have (i had been playing for 5 years before i learned about outside english for cuts), etc can all RAPIDLY get a bangers game to C level pool. After that, Getting to B/A level requires putting the hours in and nothing else IMO.
(((something for you new thread could be Aiming system vs. game.....I think hal's system/cte is best suited for straight pool....8'ball/9'ball requires too many cheating shots/or english/follow/draw to get whitey where you need it and in 1p CTE has almost no value whatsoever...again IMO)))).
Thanks for that clarification. And it is your final sentence that interests me most: knowing what's possible.
The reason I got hung up in this thread is that I am always fascinated (and amused) when there are claims of 'secrets' to doing something. Or to doing it well or better than others. My favorite is the "secrets of weight loss". Sound familiar?
The kind of mentality suggested by the OP harkens back to the days of the Guilds, when there really were secrets to doing some of the things governed by a particular Guild, e.g. glass blowing, masonry - not Masonry, the art of the patina, etc. That pocket billiards would share qualities of those secretive fraternities is humorous to me.
The bottom line is that, if one were to spend less time on pondering the secrets, and more time on practicing what you do know (cf. sleinen above), you wouldn't need any 'secrets'.
And, if that's the case, then what is the point?
Now, back to your response, and, knowing what is possible. The description of the shot you give, is the sort of thing I was looking for; and, as you say, there are probably techniques that could be applied that would make it easy (or easier) to execute. The principles governing the technique (i.e. the physics involved), however, aren't secret. They've been spelled out many times in many places. One simply has to try them out... over and over...
The only secret, would be in knowing whether what you want to do is even possible. And I contend that anyone can find out that answer.
I think I can tell by this post that you did not order Stan Shuffett's Pro One/CTE aiming video? Am I right on that?
I think part of it is some aren't so inclined to give away knowledge for free or to those that they just don't want to give it to..
.
.
.
..
That last one is one of the most important. We all say "I wish I could play like that," or "I desire to be the best player I can possibly be." But really, do you? Saying it, meaning it, and actually doing something about it are three different things.
- desire
Yeah, all you guys are right, there are no secrets. That's why Freddy never sold a book, why Brumback won't sell any DVD's, why no one ever goes to Dr. Dave's site. Yep, there are no secrets. Everybody already knows all there is to know. :thud: