Pros not telling you everything.....

PistolPat said:
Hahahahah....First thing is...finding a pro that's gonna pass the knowledge ( NOT EASY ) Mike Dechaine tried getting Shane to share his secret for breaking and SHANE wouldnt give it up for anything...Looks like Mikey is gonna have to watch a lot of Accustats videos. Theres a reason a lot of us arent at that level and it's because we don't even possess the knowedge so that we may get there. Some say there is NO secret...well hot damn...then THEY must play at a pros level and beyond if there is no more knowledge for them to gain from playing. Wish I knew that much..well you know what? Ask me anything..if it's anything about pool, that's one my brother knows :cool:
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This reminds me of the time I was at the track with Usain Bolt. I kept asking him to share his secret for running so fast and he kept just brushing off the question! Same thing happened when I was jammin' with Eric Clapton. I asked him what his secret was for playing guitar so well and he just shrugged it off. After a while he said something about playing hour after hour, day after day, for year after year. It was then that I realised he was never going to tell me his secrets and I left.
 
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jcrack_corn said:
there are no secrets, its a game of absolutes.

there are a given number of angles/contact points that will get a given ball to a given pocket, either you can reliably/repeatedly make that happen or you cant.

There is no magic. CTE does work for a large number of shots, but not all of them and is just another approximation system.

Keith McCready told me 10-12 years ago that it was real easy to play at his level, he said play 12 hours a day for a decade and you will be there.

I cant imagine how much pro's who lurk these forums laugh at these threads, thinking "you cant get better debating aiming systems on the internet, lol." It all comes down to table time, put in 12 hours a day and you will learn the secret.
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If Keith told you this (and I'm sure he did), he was either mistaken, trying to get you off his back or just pulling your leg.

The VAST MAJORITY of people could play pool 16 hours a day for a decade and they still would never become champions.
 
JoeyA said:
If Keith told you this (and I'm sure he did), he was either mistaken, trying to get you off his back or just pulling your leg.

The VAST MAJORITY of people could play pool 16 hours a day for a decade and they still would never become champions.
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And I'm sure if they had all the pool secrets ever discovered, the vast majority would still never become a champion, either.

Fatboy pretty much nailed it - natural ability, coupled with plenty of experience makes a champion.
 
Its easier to claim there's a secret instead of admitting the truth, you have reached your top speed that your ability allows you! Equality is impossible!
 
PistolPat said:
This thread MAY catch some heat but it's not in ANY way speaking on behalf of all pros or experienced players....it's just a truth with some I have met...

I was reading an article from Roger Long ( certified Instructor as well as columnist for AZ ) about CTE ( This isnt about CTE ) and his statement in there about how Hal Houle's claims of Pros using this method and the reason they do not admit it to any of us is because WE the " regular " pool player are seen as the enemy. Again this has NOTHING to do with ANY aiming system/s the pros use...it is just to confirm what is true about the statement of pros keeping what they know secret from the rest of the pool community. The point is it's NOT true....but yet again it IS true... Not true in the sense that we arent seen as the enemy at all, just some are seen as undeserving of the knowledge that they all have earned on their own through their own trials and tribulations. TRUE in the sense that there are a LOT of secrets they keep from us. It IS very much a secret society of pool knoewledge, it's just a simple fact. If in their eyes they like your personality and see that you have a desire to play better...they will assist you by revealing some of their secrets...sometimes even without you asking for it. I have LUCKILY come across some great pro and top tier players who have greatly assisted me in my game and most assuredly boosted my game up beyond those around me who have been playing seriously a LOT longer than I have by bestowing knowledge upon me that I had NO idea about until they revealed it to me that very moment. And the truth is...a lot of it IS kept as a secret..how do I know?? Because I was instructed not to reveal anything that was to taught me as well from ALL of them..........In the words of my greatest teacher thus far after he taught me THE aiming system and how easy it was to pocket ANYTHING after he taught me....." It's like stealing aint it?! ".....My reply...." Just a look of astonishment back at him "....He just smiled back.
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If you see Al Romero, he'd give it to you for $20.:eek::wink:
 
Yes there are secrets. There are tricks, little things that make a huge difference. But the idea that pros are worried that letting everyone know will threaten their own game is ridiculous. Even if you give a random player all of the best information there is, he STILL has to go practice it hour after hour, day after day, year after year. And then he still may not have the co-ordination to execute consistently enough to get past an A level.

This reminds me however of a guy who was complaining to me that most of the top snooker players in my area won't tell anyone anything. They'd only gamble, no lessons. He talked a lot of crap about a bunch of guys who actually helped me out quite a bit. It seemed like this guy felt as though the top players owed him something, that they HAD to help him get better. And y'know after that speech....I didn't much want to help him either.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Yes there are secrets. There are tricks, little things that make a huge difference. But the idea that pros are worried that letting everyone know will threaten their own game is ridiculous. .
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Tap tap tap.
Everytime someone asked Efren how he shot some wicked shot, he was always gracious enough to show it.
But, it's just like Sugar Ray Robinson teaching some fool to hook off his jab.
You gotta have the skills .
 
There are a lot of secrets in pool, have you not learned a few on this board, do you not have just a couple you have not told anyone. JoeyA is always trying to pry them out of the Pros in his booth. Go play some banger that you use to play, that plays as much as you do, but never tried to learn anything new, and see how much better than him, you are now. You might say these things aren't secrets, not now, but at one time they probably were. It may not be, but it's just the way I see it.
 
PistolPat said:
Heres an example...say you didnt know how to power draw the ball. you had no access to anything to teach you except you and your own discoveries on the felt.....lets say that it takes you xxx amount of dollars for table time till one day when you were testing every damn thing in the world and BAM you figured out how to do it...after how many hours days and months of trying and xxx amount money spent as well as pushing your frustrations to its limits you FINALLY know how to power draw...it has become YOUR little secret.....next day you see some new kid trying to do what you NOW know how to do....Are you you just gonna walk up to him and show him how to do it just like that without that kid working hard FIRST himself so that he can earn that knowledge??? I'm a nice guy but I aint nice and dumb.....I would hint to someone how to do something but never right out deal all teh info unless I liked the person and I saw them struggling JUSt as bad as I had with whatever I was trying to learn.... And that's the point Im getting across...Pros have many " secrets " that they arent telling you cuz you have to work hard to earn that knowledge yourself...
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The flaw in your logic is that all of these pros automatically have the ability to transfer their knowledge to the new person, which is certainly NOT the case. Often a top player would be more than happy to share his (or her) 'secrets' but lacks the ability to put those secrets into words or concepts that a student will understand.

It's like, I'm sure if you went up to Earl or someone and said to him, "How do you make shot x?" his answer would probably be something akin to, "I'm not sure. You just do it." And then even if you kept at him and asked him to break down his thought process he probably wouldn't even be able to do it. That's sort of the nature of pros, namely that they don't dwell on stuff -- once they learn something they just move on to the next thing. It's not like they're trying to keep a secret, it's just that they don't have the answer themselves. I know I'm like that. I 'forgot' all my aiming systems a long, long time ago. Now I just make the balls. One day you will too.

Meanwhile if you're looking for someone to adequately explain the how and why of playing great pool, what you're looking for isn't a pro player, it's a pro instructor. Those are the people that spend their time analyzing how the game works and how to explain it to others. Pro players on the tournament or gambling scene just don't do that, pure and simple.

/my two cents
 
Again for THOSE who dont thoroughly read threads......

gromulan said:
The flaw in your logic is that all of these pros automatically have the ability to transfer their knowledge to the new person, which is certainly NOT the case. Often a top player would be more than happy to share his (or her) 'secrets' but lacks the ability to put those secrets into words or concepts that a student will understand.

It's like, I'm sure if you went up to Earl or someone and said to him, "How do you make shot x?" his answer would probably be something akin to, "I'm not sure. You just do it." And then even if you kept at him and asked him to break down his thought process he probably wouldn't even be able to do it. That's sort of the nature of pros, namely that they don't dwell on stuff -- once they learn something they just move on to the next thing. It's not like they're trying to keep a secret, it's just that they don't have the answer themselves. I know I'm like that. I 'forgot' all my aiming systems a long, long time ago. Now I just make the balls. One day you will too.


Meanwhile if you're looking for someone to adequately explain the how and why of playing great pool, what you're looking for isn't a pro player, it's a pro instructor. Those are the people that spend their time analyzing how the game works and how to explain it to others. Pro players on the tournament or gambling scene just don't do that, pure and simple.

/my two cents
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This is NOT speaking on behalf of ALL pros and top tier players as I had previously stated over and over and over and over and over and over again..but it does pertain to the general truth that there ARE pros and great players alike who CAN and ARE able to teach what they have " discovered " on the felt BUT choose not to.........Simple as that. C'mon fellas I know you guys can read but maybe it's proof right here that comprehension is something beyond some people's capabilitites. Read the ORIGINAL thread thoroughly fellas and dont just read random parts of the thread..
 
PistolPat said:
This is maybe WHY pros dont like to divulge their secrets. More competition to worry about? IMHO it's really not even that....I truly believe that its due to the fact that they've worked so hard to learn what they've learned that they think..WHY should I just GIVE you info that I worked so hard to find out on my own....Becasue to be honest with all of you....Some of the things that I've figured out on my own I have and will NEVER just come out and tell someone......I've spent too much money practicing hours on end at the table to just give that info away to just anyone......
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I totally agree with most of what your saying. It's like any other craftsman. For example I'm a glassblower, you could beat your head against the wall for years trying to figure out a certain technique or application. Am I gonna show my trade secrets to just anyone, no. I will pass them on to those that have the same passion for the trade. Each craftsman is different-Some may be open about everything, some nothing, some just fear any new competition. I don't think pool would be any different in that regard. It's nothing personal just "tricks of the trade".
 
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PistolPat said:
As far as that aiming system or anything else I learn from pros...sorry I have NO idea what you are talking about. I'm just a banger:rolleyes:
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"Because I was instructed not to reveal anything that was to taught me as well from ALL of them..........In the words of my greatest teacher thus far after he taught me THE aiming system and how easy it was to pocket ANYTHING after he taught me....." It's like stealing aint it?! ".....My reply...." Just a look of astonishment back at him "....He just smiled back. "
 
All thise who say there are no secrets obviously have never spent time around a pro or even a good instructor because just being around them and listening carefully you'll pick up things that will definitely improve your game. The thing is that you have to be humble and respectful. I'm not saying it will make you a champion but it you will have more tools in your arsenal to pull out when you need them. If they trust you enough to share their hard earned knowledge, then it is only right to respect their wishes and keep the information to yourself.
 
NhocCuteGirlUK said:
you cant train in what God left out. All the words in the world will never, ever take a person with little talent and turn them into a solid player. Never




Sure knowlege is power and can make the best of a person, but some people have more potential than others no matter what they know. I'm living proof. If you cant execute but you know everything about the shot-it just aint gonna happen. You must be able to execute, period.

This is true but there is a saying " don't cast your pearls to swine " meaning you will not give wisdom to fools. Having said this I believe in the original thread he was talking about pros not telling secrets.
A pro would know the difference between a potential threat and a banger. So, sharing something with someone who lacks good playing ability is moot.

Now if you have a talented dummy that cant play, then knowlege will take that person much farther than a no talented person.



------------------SO--------------------------



Like i said:



YOU CANT TRAIN IN WHAT GOD(or who ever)LEFT OUT.







Cheers,

Fatboy

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This is true , but there is a saying " don't cast your pearls to swine '. Meaning don't give wisdom to fools. I am not calling anyone a fool. What I am saying is referring to the thread. Which was pros not divulging secrets. A pro would know the difference between a potential threat and a banger. He might share ideas with someone that already knows, but would not with a player lacking talent. As, God said "what does light have to do with darkness ".
 
Lost in translation.................

It's not at all surprising that this thread has definietly been misinterpreted by the masses....to the handful that UNDERSTOOD the thread from the get go, I thank you for your appropriate posts according to the orginal post of this thread which is...say it with me now everyone...THAT SOME PROS DON"T LIKE TO SHARE ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE ACQUIRED FROM TIME SPENT AT THE TABLE. This has nothing to do with talent or a secret that will make a champion out of anyone...it's just simple information that to a pro/top player is a secret and therefore chooses not to share with the the general audience.....for what reason would they keep their so called secrets? Its anyone's guess...but one thing IS for sure is that this fact is common and goes on till this day whether ANY of you choose to believe it or not....
 
PistolPat said:
It's not at all surprising that this thread has definietly been misinterpreted by the masses....to the handful that UNDERSTOOD the thread from the get go, I thank you for your appropriate posts according to the orginal post of this thread which is...say it with me now everyone...THAT SOME PROS DON"T LIKE TO SHARE ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE ACQUIRED FROM TIME SPENT AT THE TABLE. This has nothing to do with talent or a secret that will make a champion out of anyone...it's just simple information that to a pro/top player is a secret and therefore chooses not to share with the the general audience.....for what reason would they keep their so called secrets? Its anyone's guess...but one thing IS for sure is that this fact is common and goes on till this day whether ANY of you choose to believe it or not....
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Pat I understand your whole point about this thread . :thumbup:
 
PistolPat said:
THAT SOME PROS DON"T LIKE TO SHARE ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE ACQUIRED FROM TIME SPENT AT THE TABLE. This has nothing to do with talent or a secret that will make a champion out of anyone...it's just simple information that to a pro/top player is a secret and therefore chooses not to share with the the general audience.....for what reason would they keep their so called secrets? Its anyone's guess...but one thing IS for sure is that this fact is common and goes on till this day whether ANY of you choose to believe it or not....
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Probably true and not very surprising. I think an observant student of the game can learn a lot of "secrets" by just watching some matches.
 
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