Depends on how you look at it, no?
How many games had to be played for $ to be won, vs. how many one must finish ahead of the other to win?
Pulling up in the middle of a set when score is tied
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
Depends on how you look at it, no?
How many games had to be played for $ to be won, vs. how many one must finish ahead of the other to win?
Well said. Much of what you say has some merit.
You are partially right; some of what I stated was not accurate. Worse, it was deliberate. Let me correct those statements that were inaccurate and explain.
The statements, whereby I castigated Dennis as being without grace, without maturity and without dignity, were not accurate. I do not know Dennis so how could I comment on him in this way. I deliberately did this in such an over the top, ill tempered manner in the hope that you would call me on it and you did. I felt that if I put into blunt language the things that you were inferring about Dennis you might realize that you were not really being fair. It seems to have worked. You read my statement and you called me on it as being inaccurate; you were right to do that. It seems we are in agreement now that Dennis was not at fault for anything other than trying to escape from a trap with little or no cost, other than that to his dignity, reputation or the respect you no longer have for him which he clearly seems willing to pay.
You hooked him good with him giving up far more of a handicap than your skill level would need. However, instead of simply blowing him away, taking your money and either walking away or giving him another match on renegotiated terms you decided to toy with him. That is what allowed him to tie up the match and then attempt to get out of it. Again, Dennis cannot be faulted for recognizing that he had been caught and then trying to mitigate the monetary damage.
At first, I admired that you were able to set the hook and fish in a player like Dennis Orullo. I was also solidly behind you in the way that you initially responded to his trying to call things off when he realized that you had got him. I couldn’t exactly hear what was said on the video, but you seemed to say no way when Dennis first suggested he wanted to call it a tie and quit with no money changing hands. When he broke his cue down you seemed to stick to your guns and took possession of the money. I think your response was correct up to that point. However, you then made the decision to negotiate a settlement. I cannot understand why you would do that, I think you should have kept the $1000, but I accept that it was your decision to make. You then, in a private conversation in the hallway (I think you mentioned hallway) decided to let him off for $150. That was solely your choice. Whether Dennis’ negotiating style was to whine and/or plead and that moved you to do this is not our business. I simply do not agree with your choice to take a private negotiation public.
I think that the high road would have had you come back into the room and into this conversation by simply saying that Dennis realized that he had made a bad game, wanted to pull out and that you made a settlement with him that allowed him to do that. You might even have mentioned that you set him straight on the etiquette involve.
I cut you some slack on this because it would appear that you came back into the room with an ego erection of biblical proportions eager to indulge in the self pleasure that it afforded you when you announced to one and all that you had bested the “best money player in the world” and made him whine and beg.
I do not know Jay Helfert other that through his posts. I am simply taking him at his word that he corrected Dennis in terms of it being improper etiquette to try to quit when tied and the fact that someone else had done it to him did not make it right. I believe he was sincere in making the offer to up the settlement to $500. The high ground would have been to graciously accept or reject his offer. To instead turn it into an, I don’t think that Dennis Orcollo, the world’s greatest money player, has learned his lesson, I need to school him some more moment.......well ...see prior comment about ego erection.
That said, again, you do make some very good points. I might even be inclined to accept your version of why you kept making the many references to the world’s greatest money player in the context that you have presented except that would have taken away from the effectiveness of my using the phrase “an ego erection of biblical proportions” and I just couldn’t do it.
Let me clarify some of things that you are off base on. First off I didn't start this thread, JAM did. Everyone was wondering what happened so I came on here to explain so there were no misunderstandings. I let Dennis' out of the set because I felt bad, plain and simple. That would have been the end of it accept 10 minutes later he acted like a little ***** to me and 6 other people. He blatantly lied saying that in the Philipines when the score is tied and the money posted any player can quit and get their money back.
Do you really believe that Dennis Orcullo who has gambled all over the world thinks it was alright to quit in the middle of a set with the money posted? I would really like you to answer that question.. If your answer is YES you think he really believed its alright than I guess there has never been a double hill match finished in the Philipines.. Obviously the person not breaking would unscrew everytime it gets to double hill because they are an underdog., If that is what you truly believe you are the most naive person on this forum.
Now then if you answer NO and you think he knew it was not ok to quit in the middle of the set but did it anyway, then it was a move plain and simple. So which is your answer?
As far as the huge pool ego, once again you are completely wrong. You see I know exactly how I play, EXACTLY.. So who had the huge ego? the guy asking for the break and ball in hand or the guy thinking he could give someone he wasn't sure how they played break and ball in hand.
Imagine if I would have kept the money like in hindsight I should of. If I walked out of the room and Dennis hurriedly put his cue back together which he did. Guys like you would all be saying that Rob stole the money off the light with the score tied in the middle of the set while Dennis wanted to finish the set. You see that is what happens online when YOU are not there. Things gets misunderstood and twisted around. I made sure I cleared that up.
Mine and Dennis' money dealings came to an end in the hallway when I let him buyout. I didn't come on here asking for anymore money (like I already said, I had the money in my pocket if I wanted to keep it all) It was the 10 minutes later when he acted like a ***** that I knew he didn't give 2 shits about what he did and won't for a second hesitate to do it again.
Finally I noticed you glanced right over how Dennis was on his way to Jay's house after just winning $ 6000 and Jay was going to ask Dennis to give him the money because Dennis knew he was wrong after "Jay talked to him and explained everything".. If Jay really cared about making Dennis look good why didn't Jay just say "Dennis gave me the money to give to Rob" even if it was Jay's money nobody know the difference... but then again maybe that's why.. because nobody would know the difference
Like I said I learned something from this and thats ok
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Point taken. I originally must have missed the part about him acting like a **** 10 minutes later. Also missed the part where you felt bad and decided to let him off lightly, again, point well made. Enough said
I am thinking of games played. The money posted is only what they agree to play to.
In other words the minimum amount of games played would have to be 15 to get the 1000 and the maximum would be 29, which works out to be between 66 and about 33 a game.
Still though $1000 is too cheap to blow your cover against a super strong player if you really have the dead nuts.
JB I really wasn't blowing any cover. I had already played 3 matches on that table and one while Dennis was in the room. I had a feeling if I would have said bet $ 5000 he probably wouldn't have played. Who knows maybe I didn't have the nuts and just thought I did.. However I would take the same spot again (break, ball in hand) race to 25 for whatever they could bet and I will even give Dennis the last 2.... oh yeah... and no quitting in the middle.. can't believe I had to put that stipulation in
I can't of course say anything about what was going on but if Dennis was already aware of how you played and he wanted to play then I still think you let him off too cheap. I am guessing Dennis didn't see you playing the ghost and only saw you playing other people without break-ball-in-hand.
Anyway it's all done and I think you are right about just about everything. Dennis is flat out wrong about being able to quit even in races anywhere on the planet. He knows better than that.
To me he should have let it go after you allowed him to buy out for $150. Why $150 anyway? Seems like an odd number.
I had a guy reach up and simply take his stake off the light when he didn't like the game he made. Being in is home pool room among all his friends there was nothing I could do but complain for a while.
As they say winning the money is only half the job. Getting out and away safely is the other half.
What a Joke! @ Dennis. I knew there was something I didn't like about that guy. The rest of the killers are gentlemen it's only this guy I had mixed feelings right from the start. And his fellow countrymen feels the same way. Shame on you Rob for letting this weasel off! You're a great guy, Dennis is a Hyena you're suppose to kill those animals when you have a chance. 
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You know, I'm not a big time gambler like some people around here, but here's what I think...
If you make a bet, you shake hands and you post cash, it's a done deal. Winner take all. If you screwed up and made a bad bet, too bad, take your medicine and don't do it again. That's on you. If you can't afford to lose your bet, you can't afford to gamble. Simple.
If you make a bet, you shake hands and you post cash, it's a done deal. Winner take all. If you screwed up and made a bad bet, too bad, take your medicine and don't do it again. That's on you. If you can't afford to lose your bet, you can't afford to gamble. Simple.
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