Push-out decision process

[Black-Balled]

You can't always follow general principals. The only place to leave you opponent long is on the end rail straight in! Tying up balls is always a good idea to consider. I will always let my opponent shoot a long rail bank to win the game since he will miss it probably 75% of the time. Most of the pros will place safe instead of shooting a long rail bank on a 9 foot table (they will bank the ball to the middle of the end rail and hook you if possible).

Not sure why you are talking about long rail banks...I interpereted your push thought to result in this, optimally:

CueTable Help

Though, in my experience, it would realistically look more like this:

CueTable Help

Or:

CueTable Help

I believe a good player will shoot the bank from the lower 2 WEIs, or take the easy safe behind 3.

That is why I choose
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1985159&postcount=24

with thought being http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1985050&postcount=17

And yes, I never miss on the WEI.

And yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.:wink:

 

[tom mcgonagle]

I try to push the cue-ball to a place my opponent will find undesireable, but I have a plan for. This is one of the most overlooked shots, in the game.

 

[Andrew Manning]

I try to push the cue-ball to a place my opponent will find undesireable, but I have a plan for. This is one of the most overlooked shots, in the game.

I find it very difficult to locate such a place, most of the time. If I have a plan for it, then my opponent probably won't find it undesirable enough. If my opponent finds it undesirable enough that he hands it back, then my plan is probably doomed to failure.

-Andrew

 

[tom mcgonagle]

This is a great question for a politician. It's very easy to be vaque. I grew up playing push-out on every shot. You kinda got the feel for what you should do and learned people's strengths and weaknesses a lot quicker.

Today's game, with Texas express rules and people jumping over balls. It's not that easy anymore.

Every situation and person you play are different. Lately I've pushed-out so I can skim the side of the object-ball and play to at least leave my opponent a small range of things he or she can possibly do to me. Leave the cue-ball close or on the rail. It's harder, for your opponent, to manuever that way.

Remember, you are vunerable, at this point.

Watch people better than yourself. Think what you would do, and see what they do. It's the best way to learn.

 

[mapman72]

Okay, so what's your thought process on deciding where to push out after this break, playing a player who would run out from here if you gave them an easy shot on the 1?

CueTable Help

-Andrew

Assuming that I'm playing a player close to my skill level, I want to leave a high risk/high reward shot. Your layout presents the option to shoot into the 4 ball and let the cue ball follow and lay on the rail. This will leave a difficult cut shot on the 1 into the left pocket. Your opponent may shoot it or may give it back to you. If he/she takes the shot, they're going to earn a runout if they make it. If they give it back to you, cut the 1 ball, making sure to overcut it if you miss, thus leaving your opponent somewhat safe. Just my $.02

Edit: I fouled on a push shot in my last tournament (double hit the cue ball) so you might not want to listen to me.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

I also try and leave a tough shot OR tough shape on the next ball. If you push out to a tough shot AND tough shape you will probably get the shot back.

 

[klockdoc]

A shot is a push out if and only if it is declared as such by the shooter on the shot immediately after a legal break. On a push out, two foul rules are suspended: "bad hit" and "no rail." In addition, no ball pocketed counts, and if the nine is pocketed it is spotted. The push out is the same as any other shot except for those factors.

Bob's answer pretty much covers any question about whether or not hitting the ball is legal. On a push, you can hit any ball, or no ball at all. It becomes a push when the shooter declairs it to be a push.
Steve

I emailed the WPBA for a rule clarification regarding rule 2.4 push out since the rule Bob quoted was similar.

The question was as follows:

"I have a question concerning the rules of 9 ball. Ref. 2.4 of your rules. Push Out. If I break, make a ball and declare a push, then hit the lowest numbered ball on the table...is this still considered a push and an option for both players on the next shot, or, because I made a legal hit on the lowest ball, is it considered a legal shot and it is the incoming players turn and no option exists for me? (even though I declared it a push?) Thank you“

Here was the response I received...

In this situation, since a push-out was called, the incoming player has the right to hand the table back to the shooter. When you call a push-out, you may not hit the lowest numbered ball first; but it is also not forbidden to do so.

My question is....why do they state that you MAY NOT hit the lowest numbered ball on the table, but do not inflict a foul when doing so.

Your thoughts Bob or Steve

 

[MarcusG19]

"may not" just means you you're not obligated to.
so its like saying "you dont have to hit it, but you can if you want to"

 

[pooltchr]

That response may not be worded in the clearest way, but the point is, it is not necessary to hit the lowest numbered ball, nor is there a penalty if you don't. There is also no penalty if you do.

Steve

 

[jjr183]

Okay, so what's your thought process on deciding where to push out after this break, playing a player who would run out from here if you gave them an easy shot on the 1?

CueTable Help

-Andrew

This would be a case where I push for a better kick. I would hit the 4 straight on hoping it will tie up with the 6 and 9 and stop the cue ball leaving only the kick off the short rail. Not a much better shot, but more controllable than coming off the long rail from the current location. My plan would be to kick the 1 straight up table and maybe hook the opponent on the 8. This is a low enough percentage shot that you are pretty much guaranteeing that you are going to get to shoot it and I feel pretty good about my kicking game.

The reason I would not push out to around the 3 is because it is too easy and obvious that you can just bank the 1 up table and play the cue ball behind the 2, 8 and possibly the 7 as well. It's tempting if you bank good because you can use the 8 to hold the cue ball for the 2 on the cross-corner on the 1. The problem is that your opponent is almost 100% to play the safety or take the bank themselves.

 

[Bob Jewett]

"may not" just means you you're not obligated to.
so its like saying "you dont have to hit it, but you can if you want to"

I think this is the correct interpretation of the ambiguous WPBA response. (But: the WPBA does not determine the rules or how they are applied except for WPBA events.)