I can't believe I've been watching pro pool for so long and never seen a player actually shoot this shot. It's not often we get these rare occurrences.
Push shot foul?
- Thread starter Bob Jewett
- Start date
Thank you. I whatched and I changed my perception as slowmo video made me understand the physics.
Cue didnt have prolongued contact nor double hit.
When balls are frozen they behave as one object so they move together.
So, not a foul.
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same. it looks mental. doesn't matter that i've seen dr daves videos and know the rule, it's still one of the wackiest shots i've seen in pro pool
As a rule of thumb, I never use my ears to judge a shot because it can be too unreliable. Part of that is because I shoot with an older tinky Revo that can make very routine shots sound like miscues sometimes. Circumstance, observation and ball action should be more than sufficient.
If the balls are frozen (which appears to be the case) then it's a legal hit. The referees and Karl Boyes were probably confused, partly because of switching between games and short memories (Karl actually played a fair bit of English pool after he "retired"), and partly because this isn't too common a situation.
The discussion in this thread is quite interesting. I have heard and understand, time and again, arguments that the touching ball rule in snooker/English pool/Ultimate Pool is less controversial. It is indeed less controversial in its implementation - but it is completely illogical, especially in pool. The WPA rule makes sense and is (or should be) easy to implement with a professional referee, a knowledgeable amateur referee, or two knowledgeable players.
The discussion in this thread is quite interesting. I have heard and understand, time and again, arguments that the touching ball rule in snooker/English pool/Ultimate Pool is less controversial. It is indeed less controversial in its implementation - but it is completely illogical, especially in pool. The WPA rule makes sense and is (or should be) easy to implement with a professional referee, a knowledgeable amateur referee, or two knowledgeable players.
Because they are considered being ''one ball'' when struck properly.
I remember watching a bank pool match a couple years ago where this came up, I think w/Billy Thorpe. Or maybe Sky. He asked for rule clarification before shooting, and was amused to be told he could hit right through it..."really? I can shoot like this?"....and proceeded to make a cross-side. Probably US Open Banks. (It would have been YouTube, so it's likely out there somewhere.)
Karl is good with social media!!!!! hahahahaha
Ray Hinton made a pretty good clip just now.
31 shares | The difference between a double hit and a push | Ray Hinton
The difference between a double hit and a push
www.facebook.com
He shows an actual push with the two frozen balls, but I think he should have first shown a push with a single cue ball to teach people what an actual push means.Ray Hinton made a pretty good clip just now.
31 shares | The difference between a double hit and a push | Ray Hinton
The difference between a double hit and a push
I think a LOT of people are confusing push and double hit. Push is when you bring the tip to the cb, leave it there for a second, and then super slowly push them both forward and the tip stays on the ball. Used in prop shots and trick shots, and explicitly banned from the game. A banger would never shoot a push shot in a game because it takes skill to do it, knowledge of how to do it, and knowledge of what it even is. Whereas a banger shoots double hits all the time.
Corey Deuel has a fun push shot in a TAR interview with John Schmidt from their all-around match 15 or so years ago.
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THIS is a PUSH shot. From Corey vs Schmidt TAR interview.
youtube.com
✂️ PUSH shot
5 seconds · Clipped by Nick P · Original video "TAR Podcast #24 with Corey Deuel and John Schmidt" by TheActionReport
youtube.com
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Was the foul issue addressed at all on the broadcast earlier today?
TBH I’ve lost a lot of respect for Karl here. If he had just been ignorant of the rule I could forgive it, but he was incredibly insulting to Pongers for shooting what should have been a legal shot. He should be posting an apology and not making light of it.
I was just saying the same thing. It will be tough for him to admit he is wrong now as he made such a fool of himself and a lot of ego involved. I don't think any proof would be enough for him to admit it now
As was said earlier, it all boils down to whether the ref declared the balls frozen or not. The ref definitely did do the fist bump sign as he stood up from inspecting them, and he was there at Pongers's request, you can see that too. With Pongers asking the ref to confirm the frozen balls, it's seems like he already had a sense as to how he was going to make this shot, and just needed them confirmed as frozen. You can see further discussion at about 0.46 on the first video, showing the ref's hand at the top right corner of the frame as he and Pongers further discuss something. Without audio of the discussion, including the initial call, we'll have to take their word for it. I'm sure they'll be asked about it.
You can see Pongers cueing with right side spin, obviously trying to make something happen, so he did have some picture in his head of what might happen.
I think the best path forward for Karl, who I like and enjoy his commentary, would be to own up to his mistake, and just move on.
I kind of feel good seeing that this stuff happens on bigger stages than our weekly leagues.
You can see Pongers cueing with right side spin, obviously trying to make something happen, so he did have some picture in his head of what might happen.
I think the best path forward for Karl, who I like and enjoy his commentary, would be to own up to his mistake, and just move on.
I kind of feel good seeing that this stuff happens on bigger stages than our weekly leagues.
I think he doesn’t care if he’s right or wrong and has a strong appreciation for the idea that all his shenanigans spur up social media engagement and regardless of the look, it’s good for bringing attention to the production. And with that he’s mostly having fun with it.
Agree. Any news is good news. Look how much everyone is talking about it. Emily loves Karl right now.
I'd also like to add that luck 9 ball rules led to this shot in the first place, and all the attention it has gathered.
Luck rules encourage aggressive play, 2 way shots, and luck itself. It's good for the game!
Stop trying to make pool more boring that it already is. One guy on the FB Matchoom page even made a new thread asking for changing 9 ball to a called shot game due to this shot.
Luck rules encourage aggressive play, 2 way shots, and luck itself. It's good for the game!
Stop trying to make pool more boring that it already is. One guy on the FB Matchoom page even made a new thread asking for changing 9 ball to a called shot game due to this shot.
Trying to get the powers that be to change 9 ball to call shot is likely to go over like a loud fart in church. Besides, 10 ball is already the call shot rotation game to play if you want "more precision" in pool games.
Pongers nearly made the nine in the pocket he would have called if it had been call shot. I think he was playing the bank rather than the kick, though. Of course the speed was to increase the variety of possible shots.
I used to love bad positions in ring games. As long as I could hit the ball, anything was possible.
Being wrong isn’t the big issue to me. It’s being wrong AND terribly insulting to the player. Any casual player or viewer (and all the clueless people who don’t understand the rules) would just accept his comments (amplified by Matchroom) that suggest that Pongers is clueless.
So unfair to Pongers.