Push Strategy

[HawaiianEye]

What do you consider when you push out on a shot?

My first consideration is "where can I shoot the cue ball to that will ensure I get back to the table."

Next, I'm thinking "what can I do from that position if they pass the shot back?".

If you don't know the answer to the second question, you should reconsider where you are pushing the ball out to.

Lastly, if you are playing someone who plays as well as you do, you have to expect them to be able to do whatever you thought you would do if the shot was given back to you.

 

[Black-Balled]

How can I improve my options?

 

[strmanglr scott]

What do you consider when you push out on a shot?

My first consideration is "where can I shoot the cue ball to that will ensure I get back to the table."

Next, I'm thinking "what can I do from that position if they pass the shot back?".

If you don't know the answer to the second question, you should reconsider where you are pushing the ball out to.

Lastly, if you are playing someone who plays as well as you do, you have to expect them to be able to do whatever you thought you would do if they shot was given back to you.

That is exactly it, that last part that makes me have a v hard time w pushing out. You have to believe at some point you are better and can do something your opponent can't. They hand it back and you can play a safe or maybe a bank better. Maybe there is a cluster somewhere you don't think they can successfully break out or you don't want to chance it.

The push out never made much sense to me. But I must admit I don't play much nine ball.

 

[evergruven]

good thread idea-
it depends somewhat on the competition, but often when I push, I push to a kick I think I can do something with. the way I figure it, I like the kick, and even if I dog it, the shot's on my cue.
if the other guy wants the kick, good luck- see you next inning

 

[HawaiianEye]

That is exactly it, that last part that makes me have a v hard time w pushing out. You have to believe at some point you are better and can do something your opponent can't. They hand it back and you can play a safe or maybe a bank better. Maybe there is a cluster somewhere you don't think they can successfully break out or you don't want to chance it.

The push out never made much sense to me. But I must admit I don't play much nine ball.

If I am pushing, it usually means that I don't like the odds of my current shot. Either I may miss the whole ball or leave my opponent an easy out if I do manage to hit it, because of the table layout.

I push to a shot that I "feel more comfortable with", should it come back to me, but "won't sell out the farm" should my opponent decide to go for it.

They may leave me in a safety worse than what I pushed from, but I am, at least, back at the table.

Should I have shot at the first shot that I was "uncomfortable with" and missed the whole ball, I may not have gotten a chance back at the table.

I prefer playing with a push after the break. Actually, I prefer playing "two-shot push-out" in all rotation games. To me, it makes for a more exciting and strategic game.

Playing with pushes and "intentional" fouls changes the game up a LOT.

 

[Black-Balled]

I am pushing,

I push to a shot that I "feel more comfortable with", should it come back to me, but "won't sell out the farm" should my opponent decide to go for it.

They may leave me in a safety worse than what I pushed from, but I am, at least, back at the table.

You are contradicting yourself there.

And one should NEVER be in the business of making things worse for himself.

You forced yourself to take the worserer of two shots.

 

[Tin Man]

Because the pushing player is at a disadvantage I try to look for a way to execute a good push while making the run out more difficult. Tying a ball up, knocking a ball to the middle of the end rail that was on the long rail by a pocket, etc.

I tend to try to push to easy kick shots that have no reliable safety but a lot of potential, or to safety shots that are 'containing'. For example, I might push to where the best shot is to chip a ball to the side rail and leave a bank with no positional route to the 2 ball, etc. Rarely should a player accept a shot they can lose with and not win with but they are free to shoot. If they pass I can at least buy another inning and force them to earn their opportunities.

I don't really believe in pushing out to difficult shots unless position is absolutely impossible as well. As Buddy Hall said, "If you are playing a top player, and you push to where that top player can pocket the lowest numbered ball and get position on the next ball, that top player will beat you!"

Agreed that the primary goal is to engage in a safety battle in which you start with the worst of it but which hopefully lasts more than one inning, affording you the opportunity to reverse things with great execution and a little fortune.

 

[HawaiianEye]

You are contradicting yourself there.

And one should NEVER be in the business of making things worse for himself.

You forced yourself to take the worserer of two shots.

You don't know if you have left yourself "worse" until the person shoots it.

If I have pushed, it means I didn't like the odds of the first shot.

You don't know the odds of your second shot until your opponent has shot at what you left them. It may have changed the table layout.

You push to a shot where you think they couldn't leave you a shot "as bad" as you are dealing with at the moment.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Because the pushing player is at a disadvantage I try to look for a way to execute a good push while making the run out more difficult. Tying a ball up, knocking a ball to the middle of the end rail that was on the long rail by a pocket, etc.

I tend to try to push to easy kick shots that have no reliable safety but a lot of potential, or to safety shots that are 'containing'. For example, I might push to where the best shot is to chip a ball to the side rail and leave a bank with no positional route to the 2 ball, etc. Rarely should a player accept a shot they can lose with and not win with but they are free to shoot. If they pass I can at least buy another inning and force them to earn their opportunities.

I don't really believe in pushing out to difficult shots unless position is absolutely impossible as well. As Buddy Hall said, "If you are playing a top player, and you push to where that top player can pocket the lowest numbered ball and get position on the next ball, that top player will beat you!"

Agreed that the primary goal is to engage in a safety battle in which you start with the worst of it but which hopefully lasts more than one inning, affording you the opportunity to reverse things with great execution and a little fortune.

You and I are thinking along the same lines.

 

[Bob Jewett]

If you have roughly the same skills as your opponent the standard idea is to push to a place where he is 50-50 to take the shot. If he jumps on the shot without a second thought, the leave was too easy. If he passes it back as soon as the cue ball stops rolling, the leave was too hard.

There are a few shots I feel I do better than most players my level but I find it's rare that I can push out to them without leaving some other nice choice.

 

[Nick B]

All good points. My favorite two moves is push out to a long straight shot that you cannot get shape on the next ball -or- for the jump crazy crowd who almost always overestimate their ability to jump a mid-level jump shot that is best played with a masse or kick but they will take the wrong option.

 

[HawaiianEye]

All good points. My favorite two moves is push out to a long straight shot that you cannot get shape on the next ball -or- for the jump crazy crowd who almost always overestimate their ability to jump a mid-level jump shot that is best played with a masse or kick but they will take the wrong option.

If you have played with someone long enough, you can tell usually what shots they are comfortable with and which ones they struggle with. Overall, they may play as well as you do, but they have some "weak" shots that may be your "stronger" shots, and vice versa.

For example, I sometimes play a guy who can play position fairly well, but can't draw a ball worth a damn. Playing him, I am fairly comfortable pushing out to those long straight in shots because I know he will never get position on the next ball. He will be forced to play some circus shot or a safe of some sort.

Also, I prefer playing on "slower" tables where you have to be able to "stroke" the ball to get any kind of "lengthy" position without being close to a rail. The guys who are used to the "fast" cloth and "bouncy" rails struggle because they now have to rely on "stroke" instead of the faster conditions to get around the table.

Sometimes, intentional fouls can be your best friend. When I know FOR CERTAIN that no matter WHATEVER I do, I'm going to give my opponent BIH or a "run-out" shot if I hit a ball, I'm going to tie some balls up.

Everything is dependent upon the table layout, which is subject to change after each shot.

The key to winning is being AT THE TABLE when the last shot is made. If you have to prolong the game to get there, that is what you have to do. Not every game is won by playing run-out pool.

 

[Nick B]

If you have played with someone long enough, you can tell usually what shots they are comfortable with and which ones they struggle with. Overall, they may play as well as you do, but they have some "weak" shots that may be your "stronger" shots, and vice versa.

For example, I sometimes play a guy who can play position fairly well, but can't draw a ball worth a damn. Playing him, I am fairly comfortable pushing out to those long straight in shots because I know he will never get position on the next ball. He will be forced to play some circus shot or a safe of some sort.

Also, I prefer playing on "slower" tables where you have to be able to "stroke" the ball to get any kind of "lengthy" position without being close to a rail. The guys who are used to the "fast" cloth and "bouncy" rails struggle because they now have to rely on "stroke" instead of the faster conditions to get around the table.

Sometimes, intentional fouls can be your best friend. When I know FOR CERTAIN that no matter WHATEVER I do, I'm going to give my opponent BIH or a "run-out" shot if I hit a ball, I'm going to tie some balls up.

Everything is dependent upon the table layout, which is subject to change after each shot.

The key to winning is being AT THE TABLE when the last shot is made. If you have to prolong the game to get there, that is what you have to do. Not every game is won by playing run-out pool.

Absolutely. The balls tell you what needs to be done. Pushing balls together can be a double-edged sword. Sometimes you make problems that you have to solve. I'm a good controlled swerve and kicking type guy. I love pushing to something I can swerve a good 6 inches and kick full in the face. Others have problems getting there and the cueball takes off. For him it's 50/50. For me it's 90/10. I play left handed (right handed but left eye dominant like Mike S) I also push to places that are bad news for right handed players.

In short if you don't want to get punched in the face then stay out of his wheelhouse but in yours.

 

[ChrisinNC]

What do you consider when you push out on a shot?

My first consideration is "where can I shoot the cue ball to that will ensure I get back to the table."

Next, I'm thinking "what can I do from that position if they pass the shot back?".

If you don't know the answer to the second question, you should reconsider where you are pushing the ball out to.

Lastly, if you are playing someone who plays as well as you do, you have to expect them to be able to do whatever you thought you would do if the shot was given back to you.

I like to push out to a spot I I know I can play a safety from, that may likely not be that obvious to my opponent in hopes that he might pass it back to me. Also, if I'm playing an aggressive player, I like to push out to a spot that leaves a very tough shot that I think he'll be tempted to shoot, but not likely make or even if he does make it will not likely get him positioning for the next ball.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

I usually push to a kick and tie up a ball.
My opponent lets me shoot.
I kick that ball in like chuck norris, strut around
the table, run the $&@# out of a few more balls,
and screw myself on the ball I tied up.
My opponent then knocks in the last couple
and smiles.

Moral of this story is my opponent is a jerk.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I like to push out to a spot I I know I can play a safety from, that may likely not be that obvious to my opponent in hopes that he might pass it back to me.

If you are playing someone who plays "well", what makes the safety "obvious" to you and not to him?

His lack of experience?

His fear of shooting it?

I've played for over 50 years and I think I've probably encountered pretty much every shot on the table at one time or another.

I can't see as well now and don't shoot nearly as well as I did in my prime, but I know which shots I'm comfortable with and what the outcome more than likely will be.with the shot after the push before I push out to begin with.

I know my opponent has the same "opportunity" to shoot it the way I would, I'm just hoping he doesn't have the comfort factor with it that I do or the skill to do what I think I can do with it.

This is where it is advantageous knowing your opponents "weaknesses".

 

[Tin Man]

Back when I was a kid I always dreamed that maybe one day this would be my secret weapon.

Earl would be feared for his shot making.
Johnny for his break.
Efren for his kicks.

Me? Everyone would fear my push shot. "I was playing great, hitting him with 3's and 4's, but then he just started putting me in these marginal spots, again and again, I just didn't know what hit me, before you knew it I couldn't draw my rock anymore..."

 

[HawaiianEye]

Back when I was a kid I always dreamed that maybe one day this would be my secret weapon.

Earl would be feared for his shot making.
Johnny for his break.
Efren for his kicks.

Me? Everyone would fear my push shot. "I was playing great, hitting him with 3's and 4's, but then he just started putting me in these marginal spots, again and again, I just didn't know what hit me, before you knew it I couldn't draw my rock anymore..."

That is funny.

Some people are world champion laggers, some are world champion coin flippers, some are world champion rackers and others are world champion pushers.

The push today doesn't carry the significance that it once did when it was the way the game was played. Now it is only used after the break.

Back when two-foul push-out was the norm, there were reasons that Buddy Hall, CJ Wiley, and all the other big money players preferred playing it that way. Not only could they out-shoot the majority of the people, they could "out smart" them when they needed to.

 

[ChrisinNC]

If you are playing someone who plays "well", what makes the safety "obvious" to you and not to him?

His lack of experience?

His fear of shooting it?

I've played for over 50 years and I think I've probably encountered pretty much every shot on the table at one time or another.

I can't see as well now and don't shoot nearly as well as I did in my prime, but I know which shots I'm comfortable with and what the outcome more than likely will be.with the shot after the push before I push out to begin with.

I know my opponent has the same "opportunity" to shoot it the way I would, I'm just hoping he doesn't have the comfort factor with it that I do or the skill to do what I think I can do with it.

This is where it is advantageous knowing your opponents "weaknesses".

What you stated is pretty much exactly what I was saying. Yes, it is usually attempted against a player who is likely not quite as experienced as myself.

 

[Black-Balled]

You don't know if you have left yourself "worse" until the person shoots it.

If I have pushed, it means I didn't like the odds of the first shot.

You don't know the odds of your second shot until your opponent has shot at what you left them. It may have changed the table layout.

You push to a shot where you think they couldn't leave you a shot "as bad" as you are dealing with at the moment.

I think you left out indication that the shot you returned to the table for was not your push. If so, that is where we went different ways. If so, then that is the luck "of "the draw.

Who cares? If you don't like the shot at anytime, just "roll" """"out". That's "r"eal" pool.