PushOut and hit the 1ball?

StormHotRod300

StormHotRod300

BigSexy
Silver Member
The other day this was brought up at the pool hall, When pushing out, can you hit the 1ball?

I've always been lead to believe that it was a foul to hit the 1ball when doing a pushout?

But then someone mention'd they looked up the rules online and found you can hit the 1ball when pushing out. Its just that nobody does it unless its a last resort.

Can someone shed some light on this ????
 
You can do whatever you want unless you do it with your cue + cueball...

You can hit the 1ball, no ball at all or even pocket the 9ball...
 
As long as there is no foul on the stroke (scratch etc), the push out is good. Doesnt matter if they hit any of the balls, including the 1.
Chuck
 
Nothing in WPA Rule 5.6 precludes hitting the 1-ball on a pushout.

I can't imagine why one would avoid hitting the 1-ball except as a "last resort," or what kind of situation would force one to resort to hitting the 1-ball on a pushout. But I can think of any number of reasons to hit the 1-ball on a pushout, or avoid hitting it.

Is that light bright enough? :D
 
i know a guy who always pushes out to a jump shot...

he knows since the other guy cant see the ball.. they automatically give it back and he can jump balls so good.. full cue even, he jumps the first shot and then runs out... works for him almost every time.. he always makes the jump shot though..

chris
 
I only asked, because, I've never seen anyone pushout and hit the 1ball.

I didnt want it to be a stupid question, just was curious.

Most people I know think pushing out and hitting the 1ball is a foul. Only because most people push out to the farthest spot away from the 1ball.
 
I would think that hitting the 1 ball on a push would be legal in any rule book. It's basically a free shot of any kind. I mean, you don't even have to catch a rail with any ball after the shot, and this is where I think you could use this shot. You pocket a ball on the break. You have the 1 ball near or slightly in a cluster of balls. You could push the 1 ball further into the cluster and drift the cue ball away so your opponent doesn't like the shot. He's gonna give it back to you so you'd better have a shot or some kinda safety planned before you do this. Just a thought.

Maniac
 
StormHotRod300 said:
I only asked, because, I've never seen anyone pushout and hit the 1ball.

I didnt want it to be a stupid question, just was curious.
Click to expand...

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers (at least that's what I've heard all my life).

Maniac
 
Just take it for what it is "free shot to do what you want", just dont hook yourself too bad on it.
 
I see so many

Players that are stupid, plain stupid, about push outs:
They need to write down these steps when there opponent pushes out:

1) Can I make the shot?
2) If I make the shot, can I get out?
3) If I can not get out, is there a good safety shot?
4) Can my opponent make this shot?
5) If he does, can he get out or will he run into problem later on? like shape for future ball? or be hooked after making it?
6) If I give it back, will he just shoot a safety? and how would he shoot it?

I see so many players that 'take' every single shot as a result of a push out, when they should turn half of them back to the opponent. And there opponent, very many times, knows they take every push out shot. Evaluate every single one individually, and DO NOT be entirely predictable in your game. Sometimes, your better betting on your opponents 'lack of skill' than you are on 'your skill'. It's similiar to playing a good safety rather than taking a low percentage shot or out. Patience is truly a virtue ... and good things come to those that wait ...... comes to mind.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Players that are stupid, plain stupid, about push outs:
They need to write down these steps when there opponent pushes out:

1) Can I make the shot?
2) If I make the shot, can I get out?
3) If I can not get out, is there a good safety shot?
4) Can my opponent make this shot?
5) If he does, can he get out or will he run into problem later on? like shape for future ball? or be hooked after making it?
6) If I give it back, will he just shoot a safety? and how would he shoot it?

I see so many players that 'take' every single shot as a result of a push out, when they should turn half of them back to the opponent. And there opponent, very many times, knows they take every push out shot. Evaluate every single one individually, and DO NOT be entirely predictable in your game. Sometimes, your better betting on your opponents 'lack of skill' than you are on 'your skill'. It's similiar to playing a good safety rather than taking a low percentage shot or out. Patience is truly a virtue ... and good things come to those that wait ...... comes to mind.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine, Robert Ray, played Bustamante in the finals of the last Masters in Chesapeake. In an article in Inside Pool, paraphrased, Robert basically said that it's impossible to push out against a guy like Bustamante. How do you give him a shot he doesn't like, but you do? Doesn't matter if the next shot is offensive or defensive, if Bustie passes, more than likely it's not a shot you'd want to take on either and you made a mistake with the push out. If Bustie takes on the shot, then you left him something he likes and you made a mistake. Either way, you're screwed.

I think at the pro level, push outs almost always result in a shot which is VERY low percentage, and the incoming player only takes it on if he feels that percentage is in his comfort range (or almost comfort range), or if he's in a position where he needs to make something happen.

-djb
 
StormHotRod300 said:
The other day this was brought up at the pool hall, When pushing out, can you hit the 1ball?

I've always been lead to believe that it was a foul to hit the 1ball when doing a pushout?

But then someone mention'd they looked up the rules online and found you can hit the 1ball when pushing out. Its just that nobody does it unless its a last resort.

Can someone shed some light on this ????
Click to expand...

It's legal, and if you pocket the 1, it stays down and your opponent has a choice of shooting at the next ball or giving you the shot.

This almost never happens because it would take a very unusual situation to want to do this. I can see it where the one is in front of a pocket and another ball is right in front of it, so the one can't be legally made, you might call push and pocket the 1 on a combo and leave a difficult shot on the next ball. I've had this sort of thing happen, but it's a quirky roll.

Chris
 
DoomCue said:
I think at the pro level, push outs almost always result in a shot which is VERY low percentage, and the incoming player only takes it on if he feels that percentage is in his comfort range (or almost comfort range), or if he's in a position where he needs to make something happen.

-djb
Click to expand...

That's what I see, pushes to a difficult safety, like a kick safety, or a hard jump shot. Everybody is so good at kicking now, you just don't see that many push outs anymore.

Chris
 
DoomCue said:
I think at the pro level, push outs almost always result in a shot which is VERY low percentage, and the incoming player only takes it on if he feels that percentage is in his comfort range (or almost comfort range), or if he's in a position where he needs to make something happen.

-djb
Click to expand...

This is the reason why many times I've decided to take a kick at the lowest ball if I'm hooked on the break against a top player. I might be a huge underdog if I go for the pushout, but might have a better success rate if I pass the pushout and try to kick myself out of the situation. Against a world-class shooter you need to take more risks during a safety battle, you can't play it too safe, like you could do against a regular ballbanger. Against a world-class player you're going to have fewer chances at the table, you must use them well.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Players that are stupid, plain stupid, about push outs:
They need to write down these steps when there opponent pushes out:

1) Can I make the shot?
2) If I make the shot, can I get out?
3) If I can not get out, is there a good safety shot?
4) Can my opponent make this shot?
5) If he does, can he get out or will he run into problem later on? like shape for future ball? or be hooked after making it?
6) If I give it back, will he just shoot a safety? and how would he shoot it?

I see so many players that 'take' every single shot as a result of a push out, when they should turn half of them back to the opponent. And there opponent, very many times, knows they take every push out shot. Evaluate every single one individually, and DO NOT be entirely predictable in your game. Sometimes, your better betting on your opponents 'lack of skill' than you are on 'your skill'. It's similiar to playing a good safety rather than taking a low percentage shot or out. Patience is truly a virtue ... and good things come to those that wait ...... comes to mind.
Click to expand...


That is excellent advice, Snapshot!

On the flip side: the object of a pushout is to lead one's opponent to take a shot that he should not take. A good pushout yields irresistibly tempting results. Of course, one must know what tempts one's opponent irresistibly. :D
 
If you can hit the one ball, why not play safe instead? Your opponent would not have the option to hand the shot back. I agree, it would be legal to hit the one on a pushout, but I can not think of a good reason to do it. Can anyone diagram a situation that would warrant such a strategy? I can think of shooting a combination to pocket the one on a pushout, if the one is in the jaws of a pocket and hitting it directly were impossible.

Tracy
 
RSB-Refugee said:
If you can hit the one ball, why not play safe instead? Your opponent would not have the option to hand the shot back. I agree, it would be legal to hit the one on a pushout, but I can not think of a good reason to do it. Can anyone diagram a situation that would warrant such a strategy? I can think of shooting a combination to pocket the one on a pushout, if the one is in the jaws of a pocket and hitting it directly were impossible.

Tracy
Click to expand...
I agree, and this is exactly what I thought when I read this thread. IMO, if you can get a clean hit on the low ball and move it somewhere difficult like into a cluster, behind a ball(s) or middle of the distant end rail, this would be better. This way you safe the object ball rather than the cue ball. Thing about a safe is that no matter what happens the opponent can't hand it back, which puts all the pressure on them. Most pros only employ the push out when they can't see the low ball.

As for trying to kick at a blocked low ball after the break, this is probably more risky than a safe or push out. If you make a good hit but fail to pot a ball, you could knock the low ball out into the open for your opponent's convenience. The rolling low ball could be potted accidentally or carom into another OB and pot that. The cue ball is also moving and could scratch. There's just too many variables to make the kick option viable. When a kick backfires, you're stuck having to play your way out of your own safety. Unless you're Efren Reyes at the '95 Sands Regency, not recommended procedure.:D

If you play the low ball as a "shot to nothing" it's considered a miss and the opponent must take the table whether they like it or not. If the words "Push out" pass your lips, the opponent has options. I've always been taught when I must walk away from the table, leave my opponent as few options as possible. Forcing their hand is a strong message that they better be bringing their best game out tonight.
 
Last edited:
you give him a shot that is hard to get on the second ball,or a kick shot on the 1 that you are sure you can make or get safe and he will give you back to you.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Players that are stupid, plain stupid, about push outs:
They need to write down these steps when there opponent pushes out:

1) Can I make the shot?
2) If I make the shot, can I get out?
3) If I can not get out, is there a good safety shot?
4) Can my opponent make this shot?
5) If he does, can he get out or will he run into problem later on? like shape for future ball? or be hooked after making it?
6) If I give it back, will he just shoot a safety? and how would he shoot it?

I see so many players that 'take' every single shot as a result of a push out, when they should turn half of them back to the opponent. And there opponent, very many times, knows they take every push out shot. Evaluate every single one individually, and DO NOT be entirely predictable in your game. Sometimes, your better betting on your opponents 'lack of skill' than you are on 'your skill'. It's similiar to playing a good safety rather than taking a low percentage shot or out. Patience is truly a virtue ... and good things come to those that wait ...... comes to mind.
Click to expand...

Whoa, this probably the most sensable thing I have ever read on AZ!
Except for stuff I write of course :D
 
ChrisOnline said:
i know a guy who always pushes out to a jump shot...

chris
Click to expand...

Yep, Mr. Putnam. I learned a lot that day.

It seems that most that are replying to this thread are not looking at all aspects of the game of 9 ball. 9 Ball is a game of shoot, or be shot, period.

As is most of the billiard sports, stay at the table as long as you can. Thinking otherwise, you're only fooling yourself.

doubt only comes in one flavor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top