Putting down the LD shaft

xianmacx said:
I went throught the exact same thing. The LD shaft masked my crappy stroke and allowed me to get away with flaws that a standard shaft would not. I finally gave up the LD and it took me a year working on my stroke to get back to the level that I played with the LD shaft. My stroke is very straight now and I have passed that LD shaft plauteu.

My suggestion,
Get rid of the LD shaft. Get a quality instructor and ONLY focus on your stroke until it is perfectly straight. At that point you can switch between almost any cue with only a slight drop in your game. When I was addicted to LD, If I went to a bar, I looked helpless with any normal cue. Now that I am finished with Rehab, I can play good with a Homer Simpson Walmart Special.

The other thing I will mention...I used to hear good players/pros talk about deflection/squirt like it was not a huge concern. Now that I have a straight stroke, I agree. It is not nearly as difficult to adjust for when your cue goes back and forth in a straight line.
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Thanks xian, I laughed when I read....

"The LD shaft masked my crappy stroke and allowed me to get away with flaws that a standard shaft would not."

I only laugh because I'm certain it's true. I look forward to getting past the plateau, as you put it. Practice begins today, I'm leaving the LD shaft in the bag. I'll report back in a couple months. Appreciate the input about your experience!
 
RunEmOut08 said:
This is something that i have struggled with too. on my first diveney i bought an OB1 and then an OB2 and really like both of them and played really well with them. I sold my cue to a friend and had to start shooting with a maple shaft and was terrible for a couple weeks. Now that ive gotten use to it I feel like my stroke is 100 times better and im playing better than i ever did w/ LD shafts. that could just be right now but like i said im positive that my stroke has improved since the switch. im going to stick with the maple for a while now and work on my game. just my 2c
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Thanks Run, I'm also looking to bring my game to a higher level than I currently have with my LD shaft, using a standard maple. I'm ready to put in the time practicing and look forward to the day I come to the realization that I've improved.

I can't agree more with the Indian and arrow statements that have been made previously, I'm off to work at becoming a better indian, lol.
 
softshot said:
ok... lemme get this straight...

YOU... are buying high end cues on a whim often enough to have several of them...

YOU choose not to use the entire cue you paid for...


You Choose to pay a fraction of the amount you paid for the ACTUAL shaft for a GIMICK shaft...

and yet somehow cannot FEEL why YOU paid so much money...

Bill Gates CANNOT buy a pool game... you have to earn it.. I don't care how much money you have...

you sound like a rich child with too many legos

they cost a lot

I gave it a half assed effort

but I can't make them work..


THEY are defective....

I am NOT the problem...
\
\





Grow Up..
Click to expand...



YOU are way out of line buddy. Someone with a "gimmick" cue take all your cash last night?

Are you gonna talk to every person like this who has more than one cue?

YOU sound like a poor kid who is jealous he can't have as many nice cues as those evil "rich kids".

Worry about answering technical questions with technical answers, not hate.

HATER-2.jpg
 
leaguedude said:
All I can really say is. I don't know any strong players that can play the same speed with multiple cues. ... I've asked some pros how long does it take to get used to a new cue? Answer= could take up to 6 months depends.
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I remember a story from W. W. Woody's book on Buddy Hall ("Rags to Rifleman"). The year was around 1990 plus or minus one or two. Buddy won a tournament somewhere and a spectator offered him a too-good-to-refuse price for his cue. Buddy sold it. Soon thereafter, Buddy was to play a series of tournaments on the Florida tour. He still didn't own a cue. So what he did was buy a new cue at the start of each tournament and then auction it off after the tournament. He won something like seven tournaments in a row doing this. I guess it didn't take him six months to adjust to each new cue!
 
AtLarge said:
I remember a story from W. W. Woody's book on Buddy Hall ("Rags to Rifleman"). The year was around 1990 plus or minus one or two. Buddy won a tournament somewhere and a spectator offered him a too-good-to-refuse price for his cue. Buddy sold it. Soon thereafter, Buddy was to play a series of tournaments on the Florida tour. He still didn't own a cue. So what he did was buy a new cue at the start of each tournament and then auction it off after the tournament. He won something like seven tournaments in a row doing this. I guess it didn't take him six months to adjust to each new cue!
Click to expand...



nice little added income aswell
 
I agree with some previous posters. LD or solid maple, make your choice and stick with it. They play differently and you can't expect consistency if you switch back and forth.
 
ok. ok I overreacted and learned a valuable lesson about posting while drunk:bash: I apologized to him and topped off his green..

Allow me to re articulate my position with a tad more civility.

IMO the reason one purchases a custom cue is for the increased craftsmanship and higher standards of precision. and feel.

A cue made as a cohesive unit. A high end cue maker may reject perfectly good shafts because the balance is slightly off or the pivot point is not perfect..

the time and care it takes to do those things is why the best customs cost so much.

nothing that comes off of an assembly line half a world away will EVER meet those kinds of standards

It would be like buying the Mona Lisa and then changing her hair color with a crayon..

It's almost sacrilegious
 
I don't know much, but here is an advice given to me by a fellow member. He told me, being a beginner player, if I get a custom cue made by a good cuemaker (you have great cues already) stick to the stardard shaft made by the cue maker and play with it and get good before I go with an LD shaft. I thought about it and it made a lot of sense to me. Much like what you have said, if you can play good with a stardard shaft, your game would likely be elevated by switching to an LD shaft and it would affect your game even if you switch back to the standard shaft. Than again, you have been playing a lot longer than I have, I have only been playing for a few months and what I say might not be absolutely correct, but I know there are many on here that would give you great opinions and advices.

Happy shooting! :)

Chino
 
softshot said:
ok... lemme get this straight...

YOU... are buying high end cues on a whim often enough to have several of them...

YOU choose not to use the entire cue you paid for...


You Choose to pay a fraction of the amount you paid for the ACTUAL shaft for a GIMICK shaft...

and yet somehow cannot FEEL why YOU paid so much money...

Bill Gates CANNOT buy a pool game... you have to earn it.. I don't care how much money you have...

you sound like a rich child with too many legos

they cost a lot

I gave it a half assed effort

but I can't make them work..


THEY are defective....

I am NOT the problem...
\
\





Grow Up..
Click to expand...




Ever since when is a OB1 shaft a gimmick? What is wrong with sticking a LD shaft on a nice cue? Why would you tell this guy to grow up?

I hate to read opionated posts like this...
 
I dunno, I disagree with several of the things posted here, which I've seen posted several times. I don't think LD shafts are a "gimmick"; they're a natural progression of the technology of the game. Remember, tires used to be made of solid rubber, now they're radial. (Yes, I know that some tires are still solid rubber even today, but you get my point.) And forget the "I passed the plateau" remarks; as stated, just about every pro out there uses LD shafts. If there really were a "plateau" that LD shafts had (and consequently, non-LD shafts do not, for whatever reason you think), wouldn't those people also be switching back to solid maple shafts to play with? Maybe they would...or maybe, just maybe, LD shafts are better. Yes, if you have a straight stroke, you'll shoot well. If you have a straight stroke AND an LD shaft, you'll (probably) shoot better than with a non-LD shaft. Welcome to the 21st century. Older is not always better (think rails, felt, balls...do you really want to shoot with clay balls?)

Seems like common sense to me.

As has been said, no matter what, any new cue will take getting used to. Even Efren has said that when he was shooting with a new cue, he needed to get used to the feel of it. We all know how well he can shoot. If HE needs to "get used to" a new cue, what makes you think you wouldn't? We can't all be great, and certainly, we can't all be Buddy Hall. He's not call "the Rifleman" for nothing. But I bet Budy, Efren, or a dozen other pros could pick up a house cue and beat 99% of the people on this board, or in the world for that matter. The fact that Buddy could buy a new cue and win a tournament with it, no matter how many times in a row, isn't a good example of anything other than "it's the indian not the arrow" (which is true IMO.) For us mere mortals, we need to get used to our equipment. If you don't need to...you probably should be playing on the pro circuit.

FWIW, I don't think my LD shaft "masks" any problems I have. I still shoot like crap, make stupid mistakes, and get lucky sometimes. But you know what? That corner pocket bank I made last night? I called it, and I could do it with my non-LD-standard-maple shaft, and I can still do it with my LD shaft. I've left my cue at home and played with a house cue on more than one occassion. I still shoot the same, still make the same shots, and still miss the same ones I miss with my high-dollar cue equipped with an LD shaft. At least I'm consistent.

I think the bottom line is this: shoot with what you like. If your goal is to pick up any stick and shoot well, all you need to do is practice your stroke. For the next 10 years, probably. LD shafts are great, they do help a small bit, but in the end, all that matters is your stroke.
 
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I always felt that LD shafts masked imperfections, for example a large percentage of shots go awry because of unwanted english and or not striking the cue ball where intended, this will be covered up with the LD shaft.

I went back to a solid maple shaft from a Z, but it is well made and is relatively LD as far as they go. Took some time but the feel is back and my stroke has come back to very straight (still a slight push to the left that I am working out :) )

Make sure you get well through the ball as straight as possible and the deflection issue will be minimized.
Good luck
 
for me, a maple shaft masked imperfections in stroke. my bridge was short, and happened to be around the pivot point i guess. Many times I would hit the ball off center unintendedly and still make a shot. with LD, and little deflection, a little pivot makes the ball go a little bit more whichever way I pivot, and I miss.

it's made me work on my stroke more, the LD shaft.
 
007 said:
I dunno, I disagree with several of the things posted here, which I've seen posted several times. I don't think LD shafts are a "gimmick"; they're a natural progression of the technology of the game. Remember, tires used to be made of solid rubber, now they're radial. (Yes, I know that some tires are still solid rubber even today, but you get my point.) And forget the "I passed the plateau" remarks; as stated, just about every pro out there uses LD shafts. If there really were a "plateau" that LD shafts had (and consequently, non-LD shafts do not, for whatever reason you think), wouldn't those people also be switching back to solid maple shafts to play with? Maybe they would...or maybe, just maybe, LD shafts are better. Yes, if you have a straight stroke, you'll shoot well. If you have a straight stroke AND an LD shaft, you'll (probably) shoot better than with a non-LD shaft. Welcome to the 21st century. Older is not always better (think rails, felt, balls...do you really want to shoot with clay balls?)

Seems like common sense to me.

As has been said, no matter what, any new cue will take getting used to. Even Efren has said that when he was shooting with a new cue, he needed to get used to the feel of it. We all know how well he can shoot. If HE needs to "get used to" a new cue, what makes you think you wouldn't? We can't all be great, and certainly, we can't all be Buddy Hall. He's not call "the Rifleman" for nothing. But I bet Budy, Efren, or a dozen other pros could pick up a house cue and beat 99% of the people on this board, or in the world for that matter. The fact that Buddy could buy a new cue and win a tournament with it, no matter how many times in a row, isn't a good example of anything other than "it's the indian not the arrow" (which is true IMO.) For us mere mortals, we need to get used to our equipment. If you don't need to...you probably should be playing on the pro circuit.

FWIW, I don't think my LD shaft "masks" any problems I have. I still shoot like crap, make stupid mistakes, and get lucky sometimes. But you know what? That corner pocket bank I made last night? I called it, and I could do it with my non-LD-standard-maple shaft, and I can still do it with my LD shaft. I've left my cue at home and played with a house cue on more than one occassion. I still shoot the same, still make the same shots, and still miss the same ones I miss with my high-dollar cue equipped with an LD shaft. At least I'm consistent.

I think the bottom line is this: shoot with what you like. If your goal is to pick up any stick and shoot well, all you need to do is practice your stroke. For the next 10 years, probably. LD shafts are great, they do help a small bit, but in the end, all that matters is your stroke.
Click to expand...

You should really stop making so much sense. Before long, you won't fit in anywhere....
tim
 
nice post

007 said:
I dunno, I disagree with several of the things posted here, which I've seen posted several times. I don't think LD shafts are a "gimmick"; they're a natural progression of the technology of the game. Remember, tires used to be made of solid rubber, now they're radial. (Yes, I know that some tires are still solid rubber even today, but you get my point.) And forget the "I passed the plateau" remarks; as stated, just about every pro out there uses LD shafts. If there really were a "plateau" that LD shafts had (and consequently, non-LD shafts do not, for whatever reason you think), wouldn't those people also be switching back to solid maple shafts to play with? Maybe they would...or maybe, just maybe, LD shafts are better. Yes, if you have a straight stroke, you'll shoot well. If you have a straight stroke AND an LD shaft, you'll (probably) shoot better than with a non-LD shaft. Welcome to the 21st century. Older is not always better (think rails, felt, balls...do you really want to shoot with clay balls?)

Seems like common sense to me.

As has been said, no matter what, any new cue will take getting used to. Even Efren has said that when he was shooting with a new cue, he needed to get used to the feel of it. We all know how well he can shoot. If HE needs to "get used to" a new cue, what makes you think you wouldn't? We can't all be great, and certainly, we can't all be Buddy Hall. He's not call "the Rifleman" for nothing. But I bet Budy, Efren, or a dozen other pros could pick up a house cue and beat 99% of the people on this board, or in the world for that matter. The fact that Buddy could buy a new cue and win a tournament with it, no matter how many times in a row, isn't a good example of anything other than "it's the indian not the arrow" (which is true IMO.) For us mere mortals, we need to get used to our equipment. If you don't need to...you probably should be playing on the pro circuit.

FWIW, I don't think my LD shaft "masks" any problems I have. I still shoot like crap, make stupid mistakes, and get lucky sometimes. But you know what? That corner pocket bank I made last night? I called it, and I could do it with my non-LD-standard-maple shaft, and I can still do it with my LD shaft. I've left my cue at home and played with a house cue on more than one occassion. I still shoot the same, still make the same shots, and still miss the same ones I miss with my high-dollar cue equipped with an LD shaft. At least I'm consistent.

I think the bottom line is this: shoot with what you like. If your goal is to pick up any stick and shoot well, all you need to do is practice your stroke. For the next 10 years, probably. LD shafts are great, they do help a small bit, but in the end, all that matters is your stroke.
Click to expand...


I don't necessarily sit passionately on either side of this issue, but that's a good post outta you 007!
 
I think if someone is used to shooting with a LD cue, they stick with it, and if they are used to shooting without one, they stick to shooting without. The way our brain works, all those little aiming points for various cuts are memorized based on shots we've seen and made before. That's valuable data, and by switching to a cue that deflects drastically differently (either less or more) you are throwing away that data and having to learn it all over again.

Also, I dunno your skill level but I think the subtleties of different cues are lost on anyone less than a strong B. If a 100 dollar cue is straight, feels good to you, and has a decent tip, then the number of racks you run and games you win will be strictly down to your skill level. You won't be losing any due to the stick. I see a lot of people agonizing over cues when they should be agonizing on their game (no offense... you could be a strong A for all I know... it's just a pattern I see).

Or to sum it up, what greenman said.
 
Like others here, I have some regular maple shafts but now use a LD shaft (OB1).

My thoughts:

1. If you often employ English on long shots with some force, the LD shafts are great. I have to think a regular maple shaft will have different amounts of deflection depending the position of the cue in your hand. It doesn't seem like the grain would be the same all around the shaft but it might not make a difference. Of course, if I THINK it might make difference if often does in my case.

2. The LD shafts seem to be little less forgiving.

3. If you don't use a lot of English (mostly sticking with center ball, follow, or draw shots) then I think a regular maple shaft is as good as any LD shaft.

4. The "hit" of many maple shafts seems better to me in comparison to the LD shafts.
 
I happen to think that LD shafts are great - but I value high end custom cue makers' maple shafts equally. I agree that LD construction - flat lamination, radial lamination, use of inserts, composites, etc. - are just the natural progression of the game. In the end, it really is just what you're comfortable and confident with.

Just a little story to share with everyone:

Last month I went to the tables to shoot around and things were going pretty well for the first hour or so. Usually I get stressed out too easily after missing shots and my game deteriorates from there. However, on this day, I was super relaxed and my mechanics were solid. I was switching shafts around but to no avail.

I'm a pretty spontaenous person so I just looked up at the wall after missing another frustrating shot and said "what the hell" and just grabbed the first wooden house cue I saw with a non-mushroomed tip on it. Surprise surprise I started shooting lights out. I didn't pick up my shooting cue for another 45 min but I was still using my j/b for breaks and unsurprisingly my break jumped up a level too.

After a fleeting moment in which I daydreamed that I had happened upon the greatest conversion prospect of all time I finally examined what I was shooting with:

A one piece Mueller's snooker cue - 14oz, 10 or 11mm tip, wobbled like crazy when rolled (for comparison, I only own wrapped cues and prefer something around 19oz and obviously straight).

That experience really gave me a lasting reminder to focus on hitting center ball and while I'd like to say that my game improved since then, I just recently got a gf and that was the last time I played :o

Billiards date on Sunday though! :thumbup:
 
dr_dave said:
Low-squirt (low cue ball deflection) shafts do have potential disadvantages for different people. I have a good list of most of them here:


Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Great list, and a result of the unnatural pivot point, imperfect strokes will have worse results and send the cue ball further from the intended target, since the bridge is closer than the real pivot point, it will go to the direction that your tip pivoted towards. So, on real bad days, I pick up a house cue and do much better.
 
Stay with what you feel comfotable

I think you should stay whatever you like, because it will be the best option for you. If it is a LD shaft, then go for it, because you purchased a cue to play with that and most likely you will not use other (maple) cue. However, if you like the maple more than LD shaft, then you should change to that shaft and start synchronizing with it.

Other benefit of LD shaft is if your shaft is broke, you can easily find a replacement which has the similar performance.

Good luck with the choice.
 
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