Q: Should pro-types be allowed?

If you want to get better
D play a C player not a pro

C play a B not a pro

B play a A player not a pro

A player play whoever the hell you want.

C players playing pro's= makes no sense unless you think their Gods and you just want to be as close to them as you can get.

Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
If you want to get better
D play a C player not a pro

C play a B not a pro
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I'll agree with these two, because players at that level have so many huge gaps in their game, they won't be able to implement many thingsa they see a pro doing.

B play an A player not a pro
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This one, I do not agree with. A B player can improve massively by playing a pro. A B player can do quite a few things the pro player can do, just not as consistently. The same applies for an A player. Only by playing pros can either one of them recognize the need for a more consistent level of play.

Russ
 
Well if the Pro Type are interested in them big money tournaments that most bar have that pay 50-65 bucks for first place well they need the money more than me,
drinkbeer.gif
 
Neil said:
Isn't that the truth! Some of you may not know the 'high' you get when the whole room bursts into applause because you just beat someone that was supposed to walk all over you.

Keep them out, and you will never know that feeling.
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You are 100% correct on that one.

The first time I ever won a tournament was like that. I was at best a c or c+ at the time and he was probably an A- or so. He had already broke and ran 2 four packs that night and he started off on me by doing 3 b&r's and won the 4th game also. This was in the finals, race to 7, no handicap. I came back with a couple good wins by playing safe and then a break and run; at that point he started to take me a little more seriously.

We went back and forth for a couple games with him scratching at some very bad spots in the games and then it was hill/hill, my break. There were about 20 people standing around watching this game. He was from out of town and I was the underdog regular who managed to make a match out of it despite the odds. When I won the game that put me on the hill the place was cheering and going nuts. As I'm standing there getting ready to break, my buddy yells over to me, "Hey, have you ever won this thing before" I shouted back, "No, never" Then I broke and made the 9 :D . The place went crazy. I'll never forget that and it's probably why I still play so much today. LMAO, all of that for a $110 payout, but it was some of the sweetest money I ever made.
 
Hell those who don't want to deal with Pro caliber players, move to Arizona where there are few open tournaments, and most are rated/handicapped.

Meaning you have a Az Rating Card that allows you to play in certain tournament depending upon your rating.

After a while you will be griping how how bad the rating system is and will in all likeliness want to move home.
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We used to have it set up where if you were a "B" or "C" player, you played in the Thursday night tourney. "C" players got the eight. "D" players could play also. They got the eight from the "C" players, and two games and the eight from the "B" players. All races to seven. Once you place in the money twice, you move up..period. No moving back, ever. Once you placed twice as a "B" player, you moved to "A" status.

The "A" player tourney was on Monday night with $500 added. I can remember many nights with these names there: Cliff Joyner, Johnny Archer, Mike Coltrain, Greg Brooks, Tony Ellin, Tony Watson, Sparky Ferrell, Brian Ezell, Scott Wright, Peanut, "Fat Harold" Dollar, Earl Strickland, Jimmy Faircloth, Roger Jackson, Wade Crane, Mike Fuller, Charlie Brinson, Jaybird, Johnny Dew, Joe Root, etc. etc.

The thing is, everyone wanted to be an "A" player. That's where the money was. Now, there is so much sandbagging and ranking that unless you don't have a resume', you're screwed. That is when I just planned to be out all night. 48 players every Monday night, almost guaranteed. That setup is for "players," and not some guys that will donate a match just to stay a "D" player. Ain't like the ol' days. But, I will say, those days are when you better be world class to come around this area. Most people just avoided it here, or got beat.
 
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Vinnie said:
I think the key to this topic is "simple weekly tournaments". Lets say that you do draw Efren in a 9-ball race to three. I don't think that you would get more than one or maybe two chances to shoot, which means that you paid to be one of the spectators. I don't know how much one would actually learn from playing a pro in a simple weekly tourney. jmo.
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I have been made to feel like a paid spectator by many non-pros as well... that's the nature of the game.
 
I agree that they should get to play. It is alot of fun playing them because it is difficult, but my biggest problem is that when a handicap tournament doesn't make it difficult enough on them.

Recently I have had to play Jerry Slivka 3 weeks in a row at a local tournament. He won all 3 weeks he was there. I am not complaining about this except that the pro rank doesn't do justice. The ranks go from 4-8 Then AA and Pro. There seems to be a few Skill levels missing there. And its not just him Doug Young was in town for a month won all 4 weeks, Adam Smith was in town 1 week and won, the list goes on.

He spots me 7-5 and all the breaks. I play as a 7 so C+/B- player somewhere around there. I can tell you he missed 1 ball in the three matches that he tried to pot. I lost because I simply don't have the runout speed to win.

It probably sounds like I don't want them to play but that isn't it at all. I really enjoy getting the chance to play them, and I am not affraid of them but I would like a chance to win. Let them play but if its handicaped make sure its fair.
 
Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.... That's the way it oughta be.
If'n ya can't hang with the big dogs...best keep yer cash in yer pocket.
I ain't afraid to play anyone...even if I think I'll be a donor I'll step up and give er my best shot

Banger
 
Hmmm...

The first tournament I ever played in had the following in the field..and it was a weekly tournament.

Danny Dileberto
Roger Griffis
Steve Knight
Babe Thompson
Louie Roberts

I drew Louie Roberts and never really shot the entire match....

What it did was inspire me to want to play like them.

I doubt I would have ever been inspred to improve my game had I only played againnst other bangers.

I played in a weekly tournament last night...and although I did not play as good as the above mentioned players... I did have a few good moments.

I actually played a match against a very novice player and pretty much ran him over...He said at the end of the match..."You have got to be one of the best shotmakers I have ever seen"

I was taken back a bit by that comment as (my perspective) is that I am not that great a shotmaker (compaired to again the above mentioned players)

However...today reading this thread makes me think that perhaps I inspired someone to want to become a better player by running them over.

I think if someone signs up for a OPEN weekly tournament and draws a top gun...One of two things is going to happen...They are either going to be inspired to get better....or quit..

If they quit they were not meant for competetive pool in the first place.
 
BRKNRUN said:
Hmmm...

The first tournament I ever played in had the following in the field..and it was a weekly tournament.

Danny Dileberto
Roger Griffis
Steve Knight
Babe Thompson
Louie Roberts

I drew Louie Roberts and never really shot the entire match....

What it did was inspire me to want to play like them.

I doubt I would have ever been inspred to improve my game had I only played againnst other bangers.

I played in a weekly tournament last night...and although I did not play as good as the above mentioned players... I did have a few good moments.

I actually played a match against a very novice player and pretty much ran him over...He said at the end of the match..."You have got to be one of the best shotmakers I have ever seen"

I was taken back a bit by that comment as (my perspective) is that I am not that great a shotmaker (compaired to again the above mentioned players)

However...today reading this thread makes me think that perhaps I inspired someone to want to become a better player by running them over.

I think if someone signs up for a OPEN weekly tournament and draws a top gun...One of two things is going to happen...They are either going to be inspired to get better....or quit..

If they quit they were not meant for competetive pool in the first place.
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1/2
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Curtis Smith said:
This may be a stupid question to some of you but what determines a "professional" player?? What must one do to be considered a professional player?? Sorry, I don't mean to ask questions on someone else's thread, but I'm curious. Thanks!!
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Here in Japan you take a test and are certified as a professional. Once that happens you're basically barred from playing local amateur tournaments. Pros can still join house tournaments but amateur ones that are sanctioned, no.

The U.S. should start something like that. Make players pass a test and give them a card.
MULLY
 
BRKNRUN said:
I think if someone signs up for a OPEN weekly tournament and draws a top gun...One of two things is going to happen...They are either going to be inspired to get better....or quit..
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There's a fellow in Chicago who plays jam up, won't mention his name here. Suffice it to say he's favored to either take 1st or 2nd in a weekly 8 ball tournament, round robin, race to two, format.

However............

Drew him in the 9 ball tournament some time ago, not in the money section, but even so, he's very dangerous.

He had to win 6 games more than me to beat me.

I played my best, and got lucky, very lucky in fact, and entirely unintentionally two 9 balls fell for me when it was unexpected.

I won against him.

Another top Chicago player later told me I gave the other guy nightmares.

Since then, that other fellow, the one I won against, plays me -- every game -- as if it's hill-hill.

I love it.

He's way better than me, but guess what? I'll get him again. I just know I will.

Pool's awesome.

Flex
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Hell those who don't want to deal with Pro caliber players, move to Arizona where there are few open tournaments, and most are rated/handicapped.

Meaning you have a Az Rating Card that allows you to play in certain tournament depending upon your rating.

After a while you will be griping how how bad the rating system is and will in all likeliness want to move home.
flyingbrick.gif
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That's pretty much what Donnie Brown did. BTW, Did you know Donnie when he lived in Arizona, he won some tournaments down there. He moved back to Oklahoma City, but Donnie is from Wichita originally. I have a couple of stories about Donnie.

And back when the men had a pro tour, I believe that Pro cards were given out, and anyone designated as a pro could not play in local tournaments, but could in Open tournaments.

Until Pool has legimate rankings in Pool (Banger, Novice, Intermediate, Semi-Pro, Pro), it will never go anywhere. Allowing Pros to play in Semi-Pro tournaments is okay once in a while, but not all the time. If Pros could earn a legimate living salary, many of these problems would go away.
 
It seems pretty obvious that it all depends on the area/tournament you play in.

If you were to walk into a weekly tournament at Master Billiards in Queens, NY you would most likely find a handful of pros you can expect there. Shin Park, Mark Vidal, Joey Korsiak, Ginky are just a few quick names that come to mind. And if there is a big tournament in the area, more pros will be on hand. A few months ago I came to watch and I just happen to see Jose Parica and Dennis Orcullo entering in the weekly Wednesday 9-ball tournament (no handicap). And if memory serves correct, Parica didn't even cash! That's because there are a lot of strong players in the area, and I have to believe that the reason for the strong level of play is the interraction between D/C/B/A/Pro level players on a weekly basis.

However, if something like the above scenarios intimidates new players, there is a handicapped tournament on Mondays for people to play in. It's great for newer players to the game, except for the fact that it usually doesn't end until 5am. It gives even a C player a chance at winning a weekly tournament against such a strong field (assuming they can stay awake through the end).

I guess I wish every area had the "problem" or pros playing in weekly tournaments. I think those who take the game seriously who aren't surrounded by higher-level players would kill to be around top talent to raise their game. For those who are in weekly tournaments with pros and have a problem with it, my biggest suggestion is two take notes and up your game. Maybe in a few years you can have a chance at hanging with them.
 
should pro types be allowed...continued

It seems that most people responding believe that playing top / pro level players will make them a better player if only through insight.

Are you sure this is what you want?

Consider the following and discuss:

When you get to be a top level player all you will face is stiffer competition and higher and higher handicaps not to mention being disallowed from playing in local tournaments simply because your game is just too good.

In the state of pool: You can play good but you better not play too good because you will, figuratively get your thumbs broke!

Popman.
 
Beware_of_Dawg said:
My wheelhouse.

I gotta tell you getting a chance to play against Tony Crosby last night was one of the biggest thrills I've had in pool (and I took a game from him! WOOTWOOT). Crazy to miss that kind of experience, and opportunity over a couple bucks. R U kidding??? Most A level playeres wont even play with you unless its for $50 sets... getting a shot at a pro for a $10 buy in??? I'M IN ALL DAY.
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Bottom line---- any tour.,weekly or otherwise, will have the same players winning most of the time. If there pro-caliber players there, then, they are the odds on favorites. If not, then the local short-stop or a strong B player or two usually dominates week to week. It's these players that are most vocal about keeping out the stronger players. Realisticaly, the majority of tour. players don't have a chance of winning anyway. They enjoy playing the stronger players is why they play. No matter what the level of competition, there will always be a top to that level.
 
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