question about handicaps?

delsharky

delsharky

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I work at a pool hall and every Friday and sat night, we have a handi cap 8 ball and 9 ball events. My problem is i have 3 guys that take the top 3 spots every week which is the money spots. These same guys are double a and triple a and they still winning spotting people games and balls. The issue is everyone saying they are done shooting because of these three guys. I need help figuring out how to even up the field, other then telling them not to come back, because they are paying customers. Any suggestions?
 
Sounds like the other people need to take some lessons from the guys that keep winning LOL.

This happens in many places, some people are tough enough to keep playing (that happens in Snookers in RI a lot, really only 3-4 people have a great chance at winning or finishing in the top few but there are 20+ people that play anyway, some that may not have cashed in years), some complain.

The handicap may just need to be adjusted more, even if comes up as being silly like 2 games in a race to 4 and the 7 ball or something.
 
This is honestly a very tough dilemma. If you have the ability have two Tournaments a week. One that is OPEN, and one that is HANDICAPPED. You can't please everyone.

If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask.

Black Cat :cool:
 
delsharky said:
I work at a pool hall and every Friday and sat night, we have a handi cap 8 ball and 9 ball events. My problem is i have 3 guys that take the top 3 spots every week which is the money spots. These same guys are double a and triple a and they still winning spotting people games and balls. The issue is everyone saying they are done shooting because of these three guys. I need help figuring out how to even up the field, other then telling them not to come back, because they are paying customers. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Larger handicaps as others have said. I've played at I go to 10 and my opponent goes to 2 at nine ball and 120-15 at straight pool. There is a huge variation of skill levels at pool and if you want everyone to have a chance the spots sometimes need to be pretty big. There are several articles on handicapping here: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html
Also see the system used at Fargo Billiards.
 
I don't like the sit-out rule because it is still telling a paying customer "sorry, you can't play",
just half the time instead of all the time. And the other guys will just avoid the tournament
during the weeks the AAA players are allowed to play.

You definitely need a spot. How about, spot one ball for every documented win they have?

Like if they win the tourney 4 times, they must give the entire field 4 balls (6,7,8, and 9).
A second place finish maybe gives half that, so two 2nd-place finishes = spotting a ball, the 9.

Spots cancel each other out, so a guy with with 4 top finishes, gives the guy with two 2nd-place finishes...
only 3 balls instead of 4.
 
welcome to the world of handicap tournaments. everyone turns into a cry baby if you place better than them in an event. God forbid they go practice or try to get better. It has me about ready to quit a local tour here in town that is the best thing to hit this town pool wise in 20 years.

example - my opponent is rank one level above me and has to spot me one game on the wire. I show up at 10am for an 11am match and start practicing, my opponent shows up 10-15 minutes before the match and loses the match, then goes and crys to the tourny director, tour sponsers , etc that i'm under ranked......but I still have NEVER won the tournament.

cry babys.
 
The chart at the bottom of this page is pretty good for 9-ball.

forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=189966&highlight=handicapping+chart&page=2

It goes all the way up to the breaks, 3 on the wire, and the 5 out. If someone needs more weight than that, then they just need to realize that they need to bring their game up before they can expect a podium spot at the end.

Spots get tough with 8-ball - you may have to lengthen the races to get enough games on the wire (7-2, 9-3, etc.). You could keep the more even matches shorter (5-5, 5-4, etc) to help offset this. Some places have gone to tiered entry fees as well.

Best of luck,
Aaron
 
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We've got the same problem with our local 16-player tournaments; same three guys always win (current handicap system is you have to win as many games as your handicap: a 4-handicap has to win 4 games against an 8-handicap. But unless I make the handicap differential something crazy, like 3-10, the same guys will keep winning).

For this year's tournaments I'm considering ball-spots in rotation games.
 
If it's a weekly, change the format to a chip tournament. Anybody can beat anybody in a race to one. It keeps it fun, educational, draws more people and is good entertainment.
:D
 
When I used to run a local tourney if a player cashed two weeks in a row they would need to take the next week off. Since the pot was being matched it seemed like a fair way to do it.
 
rayjay said:
If it's a weekly, change the format to a chip tournament. Anybody can beat anybody in a race to one. It keeps it fun, educational, draws more people and is good entertainment.
:D
Click to expand...

Why am I always the one who has to look like an idiot?

Okay, what's a chip tournament?
 
The chip tournaments I have ran were ring-game style. Put 4 or 5 players on each table with a set number of poker chips (more starting chips for weaker players), and start the ante at 1 chip per game. Ante increases at set intervals, and players drop out as they run out of chips. Consolidate tables as number of players drops to certain thresholds. Pretty fun tournaments, but not all that great for giving a 2 or 3 handicap player a legit shot at winning.

Aaron
 
delsharky said:
I work at a pool hall and every Friday and sat night, we have a handi cap 8 ball and 9 ball events. My problem is i have 3 guys that take the top 3 spots every week which is the money spots. These same guys are double a and triple a and they still winning spotting people games and balls. The issue is everyone saying they are done shooting because of these three guys. I need help figuring out how to even up the field, other then telling them not to come back, because they are paying customers. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Oh...this is Easy!

Make the payout---->

30% for 1st
20% for 2nd
18% for 3rd
10% for 4th
10% for 5th
10% for 6th

Take money away from the top three spots.
Share the money so the top three isn't so greedy.:thumbup:

I've been saying this for years, but no one ever listens. It's all for fun and not all for the money.
 
Where I play 9 ball handicaps they use a rating systme a little different than most places. Dont know what it's called. I'm rated a 7. If play a guy who is a 7+ he gives me the last 2. If I play a 8, I get the 8. 8 plus gives me the 8 and the last 2. It just goes from there. A 7 in a average player in this hall. The very best guys that usually play in these Mac Combs and Tim Miller are rated 13. They have to give me the 3 out. Now this still doesn't stop them from winning some, but not every week. We had Nick Hickerson show up at a $1000 added tourney and they made him a 16. He hasn't been back as far as I know. But in a race to 5 guys like that can put a 5 pack on you from time to time on a bar box.
 
bdorman said:
Why am I always the one who has to look like an idiot?

Okay, what's a chip tournament?
Click to expand...

You buy in, say $10, and are given 6 numbered poker chips. To start, the TD assigns players to all the tables by number...say on table 6, #31 plays #14 followed by #18, 9, then 4, etc. It's king of the hill. Win and keep the table, lose and turn in a chip and move to the next table. It will wind up with one person on each table with some chips left. They then draw numbers for matchups, and the last person with chips wins. Can pay up to 6 places regularly. It needs somebody reliable to run it. It's lots of fun!
:thumbup:
 
Changing the payout: I don't like this because it doesn't stop the same 3 guys from winning every week.
playing to win back your entry fee and tell your friends "I got 4th" doesn't excite anyone.
It won't stop people from quitting if they had no chance to win. It's not about the entry fee.
As you said, nobody's really in it for the money.


No, you gotta change it so it's not a predictable winner.
Predictability = boring = nobody wants to play.

Instead of handicaps, you can do something like the chip tourney.

There are actually 2 fun formats I've seen that add a lot of random luck
to it, which helps guarantee the same people don't win every week.

Format 1

Get a deck of cards, set aside 2 of each card, lay them down randomly on the table.
Everyone picks up a card. The two jacks play each other, the two 9's play each other,
the 2 6's play each other, and so on. Random draw.

They can play 1 rack or a very short race (race to 2).

Losers report their loss at the counter and wait for all the races to finish.
Then the card process is repeated.
After 3 losses, a player is out.

Keep repeating the card thing, using a joker as needed for byes
(when there's an odd number of players).
Last man standing is the winner.

Format 2

Similar idea, but you are immediately assigned to play whoever is available.
Winners stay at their same table, which kind of helps you stay in stroke.
Losers don't have to wait for their next match.

It's maybe a little less fair because it rewards slower players,
the guys who finish faster have more opportunities to lose.
But I've seen this format done with one-rack matches, and that sort of
limits how much someone can stall.
 
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