Question about OB Plus shaft

[Rjmoncrief]

Hello All, I'm sure like any other question, its been a topic before, but I need a few opinions concerning my new OB Plus shaft. I ordered it with a Moori medium tip and I love the shaft. It took a couple of weeks but I'm starting to shoot some shots with confidence now that I am getting use to its playability.
Here's my question. I have noticed on several shots that it seems to throw the object ball off path for no reason (hope that makes sense). Now, the reason I know its not caused by my stroke or striking whitey at a different angle than my practice stroke is this: Run out to the 9, 8 or whatever and have a very simple shot, very little angle say 12-18 inches and miss the shot. Now, I'm no world beater but I'm not a beginner either. I play at a B speed pretty consistently.
I asked a buddy that plays the same shaft about it and he said you need to have the hardest tip that you can handle on the shaft because it will do crazy things with a softer tip on it. So, any validity to this advice? Anybody else experience this phenomenon ?
I know this is a long post but thought I needed to explain thoroughly.
Thanks for reading.....:thumbup:

 

[9Ballr]

I asked a buddy that plays the same shaft about it and he said you need to have the hardest tip that you can handle on the shaft because it will do crazy things with a softer tip on it.

I'm definitely no expert on LD's (hardly ever use them) but when I do use them I have noticed the same thing.

They have done weird inconsistent things to me with the medium or soft tips. By the way they also work the best the harder the tip because the whole idea is to reduce contact time and for the shaft to get out of the way asap. So with the softer tips that grip more the contact time seems a little longer, this is just in milliseconds so I don't know how important it is in real life. But I have noticed they work better with hard tips.

I have Black Kamui Hard on the few LDs I have.
But I do like the tip that comes standard with OB. It works very well.

There's a reason Kamui says they make their hard tips for less deflection.
So if you use a hard tip on traditional shaft you still get very low deflection.
If you use a hard tip on a LD shaft you get even lower deflection.

"Good for a pool cue that is set up for less deflection. The contact time between the tip and the cue ball is minimal."
http://www.kamuitips.com/store/Details.cfm?ProdID=84&category=4


Mostly just use traditional shafts because then I can do whatever I want and things are always the same. Plus with LDs you have to compensate anyway....but that's another threat.

 

[hang-the-9]

Did you go from a regular shaft to the low deflection shaft?

If you did, you are probably aiming with a bit of spin to try to deflect the aim line true since that is how you learned to make a ball with a regular shaft. You may not do that on purpose consciously but just learned to pocket balls that way.

The LD shaft does not deflect as much, so you miss.

 

[9Ballr]

Did you go from a regular shaft to the low deflection shaft?

If you did, you are probably aiming with a bit of spin to try to deflect the aim line true since that is how you learned to make a ball with a regular shaft. You may not do that on purpose consciously but just learned to pocket balls that way.

The LD shaft does not deflect as much, so you miss.

None of this explains the inconsistency in the shaft's behavior.
Did you read the post?

"I have noticed on several shots that it seems to throw the object ball off path for no reason"

and

"Run out to the 9, 8 or whatever and have a very simple shot, very little angle say 12-18 inches and miss the shot."

 

[J SCHWARZ]

I've used an ob+ classic and pro with soft kamui black tip for the last year or so and mine are very consistent. When I hit it good it goes where I want it. It did take a lot of getting used to. It might be different collision induced throw transferred from cueball to object ball than you are used to with standard maple shaft.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Center cue ball

Sure its not you and your not hitting center cue ball, maybe the LD thing just is not right for you.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...he said you need to have the hardest tip that you can handle on the shaft because it will do crazy things with a softer tip on it. So, any validity to this advice?

I don't think so. Tip hardness should make no difference in consistency.

...they also work the best the harder the tip because the whole idea is to reduce contact time and for the shaft to get out of the way asap.

The idea isn't to reduce contact time - that has no bearing on the amount of squirt.

So with the softer tips that grip more

Softer tips don't "grip more".

There's a reason Kamui says they make their hard tips for less deflection.

The reason is to sell more tips. Tip hardness doesn't affect squirt.

So if you use a hard tip on traditional shaft you still get very low deflection.
If you use a hard tip on a LD shaft you get even lower deflection.

Neither of these is true.

Did you go from a regular shaft to the low deflection shaft?

If you did, you are probably aiming with a bit of spin to try to deflect the aim line true since that is how you learned to make a ball with a regular shaft. You may not do that on purpose consciously but just learned to pocket balls that way.

The LD shaft does not deflect as much, so you miss.

This might be the answer. At least it makes some sense.

Sure its not you and your not hitting center cue ball, maybe the LD thing just is not right for you.

This might also be the answer.

pj
chgo

 

[9Ballr]

The idea isn't to reduce contact time - that has no bearing on the amount of squirt.

Contact time has a huge bearing on the deflection of the cue ball.
That's what LD's do. They get out of the way quicker than traditional shafts.
That's the whole point.

Softer tips don't "grip more".

They grip a lot more.

The reason is to sell more tips. Tip hardness doesn't affect squirt.

Tip hardness is a major influence on deflection.
If you ever shoot a few shots with a phenolic tip that's on a very very stiff break shaft you will see that the deflection is very low.

 

[Kaiser Bob]

I thought tip contact time turned out to be the same regardless hard or soft tip?

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[DOMINATOR18]

Ob+ weight

Has anyone had any problem with the weight of the ob+ series. It's a little lighter in weight which feels different and drops weight of whole cue almost 1/2 oz.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Contact time has a huge bearing on the deflection of the cue ball.
That's what LD's do. They get out of the way quicker than traditional shafts.
That's the whole point.



They grip a lot more.



Tip hardness is a major influence on deflection.
If you ever shoot a few shots with a phenolic tip that's on a very very stiff break shaft you will see that the deflection is very low.

None of this is true.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I thought tip contact time turned out to be the same regardless hard or soft tip?

No, tip hardness/softness has a definite effect on contact time. Softer tips compress more and uncompress more slowly, so contact time is longer. But when tested carefully that doesn't seem to have a significant effect on squirt (harder tips seemed to squirt slightly more, but that can be explained by their greater density).

See Dr. Dave's comments about that here:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#hardness

...and his video about it here:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVD-15.htm

"Among the wide range of tips tested in the video, the harder tips did result in slightly more squirt. This makes sense because the harder tips are denser and heavier, creating more "endmass." The shorter contact time seems to be less of a factor than the added weight."

pj
chgo

 

[Kaiser Bob]

No, tip hardness/softness has a definite effect on contact time. Softer tips compress more and uncompress more slowly, so contact time is longer. But when tested carefully that doesn't seem to have a significant effect on squirt (harder tips seemed to squirt slightly more, but that can be explained by their greater density).

See Dr. Dave's comments about that here:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#hardness

...and his video about it here:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVD-15.htm

"Among the wide range of tips tested in the video, the harder tips did result in slightly more squirt. This makes sense because the harder tips are denser and heavier, creating more "endmass." The shorter contact time seems to be less of a factor than the added weight."

pj
chgo

Thanks for the clarification.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[hang-the-9]

None of this explains the inconsistency in the shaft's behavior.
Did you read the post?

"I have noticed on several shots that it seems to throw the object ball off path for no reason"

and

"Run out to the 9, 8 or whatever and have a very simple shot, very little angle say 12-18 inches and miss the shot."

If you can show me a shaft that misses one of 9 shots in it's own, that would be interesting.

In order to know why it's happening someone will have to watch the player for a while and see what happens.

 

[hang-the-9]

Contact time has a huge bearing on the deflection of the cue ball.
That's what LD's do. They get out of the way quicker than traditional shafts.
That's the whole point.

That's now why they work, they do that because the mass pushing on the ball is less. If getting out of the way of the ball would be the reason then the whippy older Meucci shafts would be LD but they are not.

Plus LD shafts jump horribly, to jump well you need to have the cue tip move out of the way of the ball fast, that is why the light cues do better. If the LD shafts moved out of the faster they would jump better.

 

[hang-the-9]

Has anyone had any problem with the weight of the ob+ series. It's a little lighter in weight which feels different and drops weight of whole cue almost 1/2 oz.

Almost all LD shafts are lighter, the OB less than the Predators though.

 

[Rjmoncrief]

Yes, I went from a factory Smelke shaft to the OB.

 

[RBC]

Contact time has a huge bearing on the deflection of the cue ball.
That's what LD's do. They get out of the way quicker than traditional shafts.
That's the whole point.



They grip a lot more.



Tip hardness is a major influence on deflection.
If you ever shoot a few shots with a phenolic tip that's on a very very stiff break shaft you will see that the deflection is very low.

9ballr

Actually, LD shafts reduce cue ball squirt by reducing the tip end mass. It's true that contact time can vary for numerous reasons, the difference between the shortest and the longest contact time is extremely small. Not enough to have a significant difference in cue ball squirt.

I've mostly played with medium tips, but have tried them all, and don't really see any significant differences in cue ball squirt.

As for break shafts, just a phenolic tip won't change the squirt much, but if you're talking about a tip and ferrule combo, it will have really high cue ball squirt.

By the way, I see your from the lone star state. We're in Plano and I play at the Billiard Den. You should stop by if your in the area.

Royce

 

[Rjmoncrief]

Sure its not you and your not hitting center cue ball, maybe the LD thing just is not right for you.

I'm sure its possible but depends on the shot. Its happened with center QB as well as juiced.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

LD shafts jump horribly, to jump well you need to have the cue tip move out of the way of the ball fast, that is why the light cues do better. If the LD shafts moved out of the faster they would jump better.

It sure seems to be true that LD shafts jump like white guys, and I've often wondered why. Getting out of the way faster doesn't compute for me - LD shafts are lighter, yet they jump worse. I've always suspected it might have something to do directly with the reduced end mass itself.

Could it be that less end mass reduces the amount of overall cue mass "involved" in the shot? I suspect this because it seems that when I hit harder my LD shaft jumps better.

pj
chgo