Question about Shane and latest TAR podcast

T

thubosky

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At around 45 min on the TAR 37 podcast Mark says something about how he remembers how Shane used to break and shoot with a plastic ferrule and plastic tipped cue. What is he talking about??

Wish they would have asked my question I types in that one thread, I asked if either player have ever played with a phenolic tipped cue? I ask because I am pondering just what level one can get to with playing with one. Because I have been off and on playing with a phenolic tip for some time now. Seems like I always go back to it. I love the loud hit and pure energy I get from it. Usually a bk2 was my preferred shooter.
Thanks,
Tim
 
I don't think the tip decides what level you get to in pool.

But if you're wondering if weird tip can hold you back, then... probably, yes.
I guess you could shoot with a rock-hard tip if you're totally zealous about applying chalk
and not getting too extreme with spin. But why put yourself through the worry and doubt?
Just shoot with a normal tip and concerns about "is the tip hindering my progress?" vanish.
 
CreeDo said:
I don't think the tip decides what level you get to in pool.

But if you're wondering if weird tip can hold you back, then... probably, yes.
I guess you could shoot with a rock-hard tip if you're totally zealous about applying chalk
and not getting too extreme with spin. But why put yourself through the worry and doubt?
Just shoot with a normal tip and concerns about "is the tip hindering my progress?" vanish.
Click to expand...

Well I really like shooting with the phenolic tip and I definitely make more balls and shoot more consistent. That's why I ask. I can draw the ball and follow just fine. Occasionally ill have a miscue from trying to get some crazy draw. So I'm wondering if this will hinder me getting to a more advanced level. If I know that a pro was shooting good in competition with a phenolic tip then I know it's possible.
 
I'm not aware of a single pro who is using a phenolic tip.
If there is one, there are still hundreds of others who wouldn't if you put a gun to their head.
It's like playing baseball with concrete bat.

In fact, SVB once gambled with someone and he had to give the guy a spot.
The spot was, Shane was forced to shoot with a phenolic tipped cue.
That should tell you it's a disadvantage.

The phenolic will deflect a lot more than a regular tip.
So you'd have to aim heavy sidespin shots differently. That's not a good thing.
Most pro players are buying equipment looking to decrease deflection.

Those miscues you get with crazy draw? What you consider "crazy" draw may change
once you switch to a normal tip. You will be able to hit lower with less risk of miscue.

You gotta be honest with yourself... that's crucial in pool.
You might like the feel or sound or "hit" or whatever, but it doesn't make balls any better than a regular tip.
Why would it? It's not like you aim shots better with different tips.
Your ability to make balls consistently 100% comes from your skill, not the tip.

Check out one of the ultra-hard (but not phenolic) tips out there.
Here's a chart listing softest to hardest:
http://www.pooldawg.com/article/pooldawg-library/the-ultimate-pool-cue-tip-guide
 
CreeDo said:
I'm not aware of a single pro who is using a phenolic tip.
If there is one, there are still hundreds of others who wouldn't if you put a gun to their head.
It's like playing baseball with concrete bat.

In fact, SVB once gambled with someone and he had to give the guy a spot.
The spot was, Shane was forced to shoot with a phenolic tipped cue.
That should tell you it's a disadvantage.

The phenolic will deflect a lot more than a regular tip.
So you'd have to aim heavy sidespin shots differently. That's not a good thing.
Most pro players are buying equipment looking to decrease deflection.

Those miscues you get with crazy draw? What you consider "crazy" draw may change
once you switch to a normal tip. You will be able to hit lower with less risk of miscue.

You gotta be honest with yourself... that's crucial in pool.
You might like the feel or sound or "hit" or whatever, but it doesn't make balls any better than a regular tip.
Why would it? It's not like you aim shots better with different tips.
Your ability to make balls consistently 100% comes from your skill, not the tip.

Check out one of the ultra-hard (but not phenolic) tips out there.
Here's a chart listing softest to hardest:
http://www.pooldawg.com/article/pooldawg-library/the-ultimate-pool-cue-tip-guide
Click to expand...

Honestly it feels like there is less deflection. I aim to make the ball center pocket with cueball center, then move the cue parallel to the left or right and still make the ball. It's like it transfers the energy so well that it forces the cueball off the tip before it has time to deflect the cueball off track. I know it really doesn't make sense I guess but I can deny how much better I shoot with it. The Renfro also used to use a bk2 to shoot with as well and said that the energy transfer was just so great and made it effortless to get English, which I like as well.

I'm curious if Shane thought that way at one time too and was shooting with a plastic tip as Mark said during the podcast?
 
CreeDo said:
I'm not aware of a single pro who is using a phenolic tip.
If there is one, there are still hundreds of others who wouldn't if you put a gun to their head.
It's like playing baseball with concrete bat.

In fact, SVB once gambled with someone and he had to give the guy a spot.
The spot was, Shane was forced to shoot with a phenolic tipped cue.
That should tell you it's a disadvantage.

The phenolic will deflect a lot more than a regular tip.
So you'd have to aim heavy sidespin shots differently. That's not a good thing.
Most pro players are buying equipment looking to decrease deflection.

Those miscues you get with crazy draw? What you consider "crazy" draw may change
once you switch to a normal tip. You will be able to hit lower with less risk of miscue.

You gotta be honest with yourself... that's crucial in pool.
You might like the feel or sound or "hit" or whatever, but it doesn't make balls any better than a regular tip.
Why would it? It's not like you aim shots better with different tips.
Your ability to make balls consistently 100% comes from your skill, not the tip.

Check out one of the ultra-hard (but not phenolic) tips out there.
Here's a chart listing softest to hardest:
http://www.pooldawg.com/article/pooldawg-library/the-ultimate-pool-cue-tip-guide
Click to expand...


Are you referring when he played John Morra and Shane used a BK2?
 
That was definetly the match... Svb versus Morra at the expo. Great to watch. Shane ran him over !!
 
Cool... I only saw someone refer to a match here on the forums but they didn't name Morra.

Thubosky, you sound really determined. If you honestly enjoy pool more with a phenolic tip,
then go for it. Enjoyment is the point.

If you reach a point where you feel like you are limited and not playing as well as you could,
you might look first to the tip. If you never reach that point then don't worry about it.
Personally I'm positive a phenolic tip is not as good as a regular tip for normal playing
and it will cause issues when trying to do certain shots.

Maybe Shane once shot with a plastic tip, and that tip was a phenolic tip... but he doesn't anymore.
Believe me, he is competitive and wants to win. If he felt a plastic or phenolic tip helped him win,
he'd stick with it. But he decided at some point to go to a regular tip.
So probably he realized it wasn't going to work at a certain level anymore.

I will say though you may be right about deflection. I was incorrect (I think).
Dr. Dave did a video on this and they tested a phenolic among with a few other tips (soft, medium, hard).
What they found is the tip didn't affect deflection much.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVD-15.htm

On average, the difference between a very soft tip and a rock-hard phenolic was only about 1/4 inch shooting
across 7ish feet with hard sidespin. In fact harder tips should deflect less "on paper" than other tips,
but they also curve/swerve less due to more immediate transfer of spin.

I guess if you decide to stick with it... chalk up :P
 
CreeDo said:
Cool... I only saw someone refer to a match here on the forums but they didn't name Morra.

Thubosky, you sound really determined. If you honestly enjoy pool more with a phenolic tip,
then go for it. Enjoyment is the point.

If you reach a point where you feel like you are limited and not playing as well as you could,
you might look first to the tip. If you never reach that point then don't worry about it.
Personally I'm positive a phenolic tip is not as good as a regular tip for normal playing
and it will cause issues when trying to do certain shots.

Maybe Shane once shot with a plastic tip, and that tip was a phenolic tip... but he doesn't anymore.
Believe me, he is competitive and wants to win. If he felt a plastic or phenolic tip helped him win,
he'd stick with it. But he decided at some point to go to a regular tip.
So probably he realized it wasn't going to work at a certain level anymore.

I will say though you may be right about deflection. I was incorrect (I think).
Dr. Dave did a video on this and they tested a phenolic among with a few other tips (soft, medium, hard).
What they found is the tip didn't affect deflection much.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVD-15.htm

On average, the difference between a very soft tip and a rock-hard phenolic was only about 1/4 inch shooting
across 7ish feet with hard sidespin. In fact harder tips should deflect less "on paper" than other tips,
but they also curve/swerve less due to more immediate transfer of spin.

I guess if you decide to stick with it... chalk up :P
Click to expand...


Yea thanks for the info and advice. Maybe ill give it a whirl for a little bit and see how I do. And I'm definitely going to look into Dr. Dave's testing and articles, that stuff seems prett neat and informative. Thanks again for the information! And yes ill def be chalking a lot! Lol
And Im still curious as to what exactly Shane was shooting with and why? If anyone knows. It sounded like it was for more than one match that he used the plastic tip for .
Tim
 
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