Question about tables
- Thread starter 9BallPaul
- Start date
9BallPaul
Banned
I can't rebuild a GC to make it play better than a Diamond anymore, at this point...all I can do is tie the Diamond
Nice to see RKC responded to my thread. The reason I created the thread is because I rebuilt my home table, a Presidential 8-footer, with Simonis 760 and Artemis. I'm not so naive as to think I've created a 5K table with a 600-buck improvement to a table that cost half what a Diamond does, but I'm curious as to the differences.
I knew I could count on this forum for some serious answers. So thanks, all.
When I get done working on the tables I'm fixing, I'll respond to this a little more in detail
As I mentioned earlier - the goal is to make your table play correctly which is something Diamond has come close to achieving. As for differences - Diamond doesn't put Artemis on their 8' tables nor do they use 760 (as a standard) so out of the gate your table will play differently. Glen may comment on the metrics, angles and subrail bevel as these are the dimensions needed to make the table play its best with those top quality parts you picked up.
I can't rebuild a GC to make it play better than a Diamond anymore, at this point...all I can do is tie the Diamond
I will settle for a tie...:wink:
Paul I may have missed it in a earlier post but have you played on a 9ft Diamond pro yet? I have been reading your threads for sometime now and I know you have played on everything else but I am curious. If not... I am not to far away from Golden and you are welcome to check out mine. Let me know I would be glad to help you out. Mine banks correctly and as far as balls picking up speed after they leave the rails....I hit a shot before typing this and the damn ball is still ricocheting around the table
Interesting choice to put 760 on an 8 foot table- you're going to develop quite a soft touch! I think that if you play on your table for a long time, and then go play on a GC and a Diamond you will be pleased with how your table compares.
-Mike
"60's National Top Line"
Although, there is an overlooked table that can be made to play "exactly like a Diamond." It's a "National Top Line," from the sixties. The sub-rails have to be extended, re- undercut, and cut to the proper pocket opening sizes. You also have to beef up the frame with modern structural beam material. You then you can change the rail-anchor number to 4 instead of three (more good news, these tables have the 4-screw round anchors, stock, so you only need 6 more anchors for this conversion) and the good news here is if you like the rails to play like a Diamond these come at 1 29/64" standard from the factory. Usually the slates are Italian from the 60's, so they're superior to a lot of slate today, although you do have to increase shelf size. And if the table has been in a home environment with moderate care the rails on these tables stay in good condition. There is one difference here in the rails, though, the sub-rail material is poplar (like the GC) and not Oak(like the Diamond) so there is a slight difference in over-all rail weight.
Like most everything else, the tables from the mid-sixties are the best. Usually, these tables can be bought "cheap" and once you've made the changes you and I have mentioned here, to the slates, rails, rubber, and pocket dimensions of the table, it does play with the same feel off the rails and banking characteristics as the Diamonds. The Italian slates that came on these tables have excellent surface speed (they were polished). Bad news is, you'll still have about $1800 initial cost and recon-work, not to mention the delivery, set-up, cloth, and new rubber, so all in, your still gonna have $3000. in the table. And the bad news is, "regular folks (non pro's) won't think it's playing as well as a Diamond just because of the name plate!"
I've done 5 of these over the years and the playability will fool even a great player in a blind test (no name plate or table identification)! One of these tables was right next to a PBT table and most players in that room liked the National, better. Now it's hard to believe that's a possibility, but certain tables can be made to play better than the pre-98 Diamonds! All in though, if you ever want to sell the Table, no matter what era the Diamond is, their re-sale value is excellent, like a Harley. However, if you really just want a table that can be made to play "GREAT," this is a little known, but really good way to go!
In basic bits and pieces, the answer to your question is, the weight of the rails, no. of rail-anchors per rail, and the finish on the slates.
Although, there is an overlooked table that can be made to play "exactly like a Diamond." It's a "National Top Line," from the sixties. The sub-rails have to be extended, re- undercut, and cut to the proper pocket opening sizes. You also have to beef up the frame with modern structural beam material. You then you can change the rail-anchor number to 4 instead of three (more good news, these tables have the 4-screw round anchors, stock, so you only need 6 more anchors for this conversion) and the good news here is if you like the rails to play like a Diamond these come at 1 29/64" standard from the factory. Usually the slates are Italian from the 60's, so they're superior to a lot of slate today, although you do have to increase shelf size. And if the table has been in a home environment with moderate care the rails on these tables stay in good condition. There is one difference here in the rails, though, the sub-rail material is poplar (like the GC) and not Oak(like the Diamond) so there is a slight difference in over-all rail weight.
Like most everything else, the tables from the mid-sixties are the best. Usually, these tables can be bought "cheap" and once you've made the changes you and I have mentioned here, to the slates, rails, rubber, and pocket dimensions of the table, it does play with the same feel off the rails and banking characteristics as the Diamonds. The Italian slates that came on these tables have excellent surface speed (they were polished). Bad news is, you'll still have about $1800 initial cost and recon-work, not to mention the delivery, set-up, cloth, and new rubber, so all in, your still gonna have $3000. in the table. And the bad news is, "regular folks (non pro's) won't think it's playing as well as a Diamond just because of the name plate!"
I've done 5 of these over the years and the playability will fool even a great player in a blind test (no name plate or table identification)! One of these tables was right next to a PBT table and most players in that room liked the National, better. Now it's hard to believe that's a possibility, but certain tables can be made to play better than the pre-98 Diamonds! All in though, if you ever want to sell the Table, no matter what era the Diamond is, their re-sale value is excellent, like a Harley. However, if you really just want a table that can be made to play "GREAT," this is a little known, but really good way to go!
Just about any quality table can be turned into a great playing table depending on who's doing the work, but tables made better in the 60's vs tables built today?...Not a chance, the Diamond ProAm is the best built table to ever hit the market, far better than any tables built in the 60's or any other years. Reason being, 50 years from now, when all other tables show their age...the Diamond ProAm will still be able to be sold as in almost new condition....and still command top dollar:grin: as far as Diamonds playability off the rails being in question...hmmmm...