Question about the various aiming systems

mullyman

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
You know, I'm pretty open minded when it comes to these things. I'll actually take the time to read up on whatever system is coming down the pipe. But one thing always comes to mind when I'm reading these things.

If a person can't aim at the time tested ghost ball contact point and put the cue ball there then how on God's earth do they expect to stand behind 2 balls that are 6 feet away from each other, eyeballing the shot and breaking the object ball down to fractions, lining edges up here and there etc... all without any tools whatsoever?

I read about some of these systems and it sure seems like a lot of work. And to be honest, I don't think I've ever read one post anywhere where someone has actually moved from a C to a B or a B to an A all because of their new system. Also, if these systems are so great then why do people still continue to miss balls? I'm sure I'll get various replies on that one like "Nothing is perfect" or "Maybe they lined it up wrong" etc... but let's take a step back from those comments for a second. If that's the case doesn't it stand to reason that that is exactly why any shot is missed regardless of the system?

I'm really curious about this stuff. This post isn't meant to be cocky. I'm a person that doesn't put much faith into a lot of systems but I'm also very open minded and willing to listen. I'm just stating how I think about these things.
MULLY
 
There's more to pool that aiming

mullyman said:
sniipped:>>

Also, if these systems are so great then why do people still continue to miss balls? I'm sure I'll get various replies on that one like "Nothing is perfect" or "Maybe they lined it up wrong" etc... but let's take a step back from those comments for a second. If that's the case doesn't it stand to reason that that is exactly why any shot is missed regardless of the system?

MULLY
Click to expand...
There's more to playing pool than just an aiming system. Many people make stroke errors that result in them not hitting the cueball where they intended to and as a result they hit the object ball in a different spot than they aimed at also.

Their alignment could be off which could change how they see the shot. Some people also change their eye patterns from shot to shot or they take a shot for granted and stop using their pre shot routines.

There is much more to playing pool than just how you aim.

Frustrating yes... but isn't it a wonderful game?
 
The straight in shot, center to center, and the 30 degree cut, center to edge is a given.

I too cannot see the ghost ball all that well for it can't always imagine it's diameter and then it's center. Instead I double the distance.

I am looking for a way to aim thin cuts from 35 to 90 degrees where the point of aim using double the distance is off of the edge of the OB on the felt or along the rail.

I hoped to find that in CTE but the explanations for CTE, to me, are vague and not precise. I find that 90/90 helps for near shots but I can't estimate accurately where the line from the pocket enters the OB.
 
You're onto one of the main complaints about these systems.

There is ALWAYS something that must be guesstimated. To say otherwise is wishful thinking. Light and physics don't conveniently mesh in a way that allow us to sink balls on a pool table without making a single judgment call. The player will always be asked to judge/estimate an invisible ball, line, or contact point.

If a player can't handle one imaginary variable (such as a ghost ball) why should they be able to handle a different variable (such as 1/4 slice of a faraway OB)? How about SEVERAL variables?

It can be argued that people's brains are just wired differently, and some guys can envision an invisible ball better than an invisible point, while others see invisible lines best. I can buy that. But where it gets ugly is when a player is asked to guesstimate more than one or two things. The more moving parts you put in a system, the more likely it is to break down; there are more things to screw up.

Rather than beat around the bush, which comes off as passive aggressive, I'll just say it outright - this is a problem I see with CTE.

With ghostball you have one variable. Two if you want to count the location of the bridge hand, which would fall on a straight line from the center of the ghostball to the center of the CB.

With CTE, the bridge hand placement is calculated differently, and it seems to be involve more judgment and estimation than the method described above, so it becomes a moving part. So's the length of the bridge, the center of the pivot point, and even the CTEL (not as simple as I once though, as apparently you pick out the edge you want while standing. It's not the literal visual edge of the ball you get when your head is down on the shot. And if it was, how do you get your head in the right place? Head location has now become another moving part. I've also seen a tangent involving foot placement. That's another moving part).

I don't fault any system for requiring estimations. I just prefer to keep my estimations down to one manageable variable. I estimate the aiming line (using ghost ball or contact point) and let my body and mechanics conform themselves to that line. I might need to hit a million balls to judge where that line is, but at least it's just a single contained variable. If I stroke properly but still miss, I know exactly where I went wrong.
 
Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. Let me add to my first post that I believe these systems work, not trying to discredit them, it just seems like a helluva lot of work just to shoot a ball into a pocket. When I'm having a bad alignment day the one thing that has helped me is just putting my cue out across the line of the shot and going with that line.
MULLY
I need to get some video up
 
some excellent questions here mully. i really believe aiming systems work for their practioners b/c the system forces them really concentrate on the shot infront of them and learning the new system may make time spend on practice/training more productive. the system itself is somewhat irrelavent as long as it forces that concentration shot after shot. so aiming systems do work, but just not the way most proponents say they do.

you really wouldnt expect an aiming system to help you jump a level by itself. obviously making a shot and staying at the table is important, however aiming systems do not help you with all the other things that need to go into improving your overall game-cb control, position, speed control, shot selection, pattern play, etc...

brian
 
Mully

Your 2 preceding posts in this thread express my own thoughts much better than I could have expressed them myself.

It's just a good thing that I really like the game or I would have quit long ago.

Dave Nelson
 
My question is , if you are not imagining where the cueball goes after collision, how do you know where the cueball goes?
If you are imagining the collision, you have just used the tangent line/ghost ball and contact point ( one of them or all ) "system".
 
Aiming Systems

I have stayed off these aiming systems threads more than I really wanted mostly to pratice some patience and take a look at the different things people are considering when they aim the ball.

Im not a proponent of any mechanical aiming system but I understand what it does for the player and what it can do and why some people just dont see the shot.

As a young man I saw the shot, as an older man back in the game I had no idea how I was aiming the ball but I was doing it and I had days I could get out on you pretty quick and other days I just didnt have any idea what in the world I was doing. So I began a study of the subject of Aim. Not from the standpoint of a mechanical aiming system but from the standpoint of natural aim in pool. I decided to write down my findings and catalog them as I learned and relearned the art of aiming in pool. Basically at this point Im done with it except for deciding on the best way to represent it, sell it or give it away. Its a dry boring subject but Ive managed to insert enough entertainment, and solid subject manner to make me about as proud of it as I can be. Ive done all this myself at home but my product just isnt half bad. I proport my findings as a course in the acquisition of natural aim in pool and I take the reader on the journey delivering him to a place where his game is much better because of his understanding of the process but also his ability to develop the clues you need to suceed. As for aiming systems there really only is one true aiming system and we all have it. Your eyes are the best allies you have in aiming shots,they take in more information that you can possibly process so the trick is to learn to limit the area on which you use them and once you get that you learn to see the visual clues you need, to be on track and stay on track. Regardless of the identification of the proper visual clue you still have to make adjustments to hit the right spot. So enters the degree of difficulty. Just because you know the proper process or protocol does not mean you are going to do well. You still have to get position--apply spin, you still have to give yourself better chances to succeed. No aiming system can fix that for you. I find myself now many times having to take a deep breath sometimes and then just do what I know is right to do, get lined up right, stroke straight and trust the aiming protocol I use. If everything is done right then the percentage of success is much higher.

No matter what method you do: You have to decide how to hit the ball and you have to make yourself adjust until you can do that. No aiming system can fix that it is a personal issue entirely.

So Ive decided here recently not to knock someone elses methods but I know I like my own because in the end that is what we all have to do.
So you do what you do to make it work for you. If its right and you know it you have as much there as anyone has with any aiming system that is commercially available. When you get to shooting long shots your percentage of success drops plain and simple. You method is your aiming system and learning to perfect your method for me is what it is all about.
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com is my email address. Im not quite ready to turn loose of the information if youre interested shoot me an email and I will put you in the contacts and maybe soon I can show you some things that will help your game. With aiming taken care of your game becomes position. That is the truest skill in pool, you just have to get right.:thumbup:
 
pocketspeed said:
some excellent questions here mully. i really believe aiming systems work for their practioners b/c the system forces them really concentrate on the shot infront of them and learning the new system may make time spend on practice/training more productive. the system itself is somewhat irrelavent as long as it forces that concentration shot after shot. so aiming systems do work, but just not the way most proponents say they do.

you really wouldnt expect an aiming system to help you jump a level by itself. obviously making a shot and staying at the table is important, however aiming systems do not help you with all the other things that need to go into improving your overall game-cb control, position, speed control, shot selection, pattern play, etc...

brian
Click to expand...

Yes, yes and YES! These are absolutes in anything you care enough to do and do well. I am an old school, get down and shoot the shot a hundred times with different speeds and spins 'til you can't get it wrong. Use what you want to pocket balls, but hard work is the key.

After more than a million attempts at conquering the pool gods I still find myself saying, 'WTF! There's no pocket there! What am I shooting at?'. And after a couple of holes punched in the walls around my personal pool table (I hang pictures to cover these. Thanks CJ Wiley for the personally autographed picture you sent me. I have a new spot for it) I tried some of the new microwaveable aiming systems out there and much to my surprise I was a little off on aiming some of my shots. :) It wasn't the table or my tip or the dirty balls, it was me. Why didn't you guys tell me!!!!!

I figured after all these years I needed some help. I'm not on the Pro Tour so I used these systems to help me gain the right aim line and burn it into my head so I would not have to rely on a pivot. I want to stay old school, but until I can improve my aiming the position play is step 2 for me. I will continue to work on these systems until I can stop using them to line up on my tougher shots. I have seen some improvement and I hope it will continue. Maybe then I will join Pivoters Anonymous.
 
In my personal opinion:

An aiming system is a tool to get over a mechanical (stroke) or mental (didn't think it through) issue of the shooter. And after the tool has done its job, it can be placed back in its box and forgotten. How long this takes is a function of the shooter, and his dedication to this sport and how far he wants to go therein.

To a first order, figure 100,000 successful strokes are necessary before the tool can placed back in its box. 300,000 strokes if you really want the method to be fully integrated into your phyche, 1,000,000 strokes if you want to never have to use it again.

I have been working on an "after the contact point" system, recently, that accurately relates the distance the CB travels after the point of contact. This system has been helping me get a lot better position on subsequent shots, by allowing me to judge/predict/select the speed of the stroke. Has nothing to do with aiming, but has a lot to do with aiming on the subsequent shot.
 
aiming

Mitch,
We are all different but for me cue ball control is something that came naturally for me once I had my aiming method down. Now that I know what Im doing the apprehension is less and I have fewer times I have to worry over hitting the ball like a blacksmith. Ive done the same thing youre doing on selecting stroke speeds. A very easy thing I started with was just tell myself a few things before I even aimed the shot and those were very soft, soft,med,firm and hard. The other things is the all I want to do's ex. All I want to do is bump the ball off that rail over there, all I want to do is roll up a few inches, all I want to do is make the ball and shape is automatic. When I had my all I want to do's right the next part of the decision was deciding how to stroke it, soft,med hard etc and whether or not it was stun, drag, follow, draw etc. Thats a hard thing youre doing there, been there done that so I know. What ever youre doing I wish you well with it, my control came after the aim piece.
 
mullyman said:
You know, I'm pretty open minded when it comes to these things. I'll actually take the time to read up on whatever system is coming down the pipe. But one thing always comes to mind when I'm reading these things.

If a person can't aim at the time tested ghost ball contact point and put the cue ball there then how on God's earth do they expect to stand behind 2 balls that are 6 feet away from each other, eyeballing the shot and breaking the object ball down to fractions, lining edges up here and there etc... all without any tools whatsoever?

I read about some of these systems and it sure seems like a lot of work. And to be honest, I don't think I've ever read one post anywhere where someone has actually moved from a C to a B or a B to an A all because of their new system. Also, if these systems are so great then why do people still continue to miss balls? I'm sure I'll get various replies on that one like "Nothing is perfect" or "Maybe they lined it up wrong" etc... but let's take a step back from those comments for a second. If that's the case doesn't it stand to reason that that is exactly why any shot is missed regardless of the system?

I'm really curious about this stuff. This post isn't meant to be cocky. I'm a person that doesn't put much faith into a lot of systems but I'm also very open minded and willing to listen. I'm just stating how I think about these things.
MULLY
Click to expand...


I guess for me it's about the same as being able to pick out and hold a contact point in my vision or to be able to project a ghost ball onto the table in the right space.

It's not any more work for me to use my cue to line up a few lines and rely on that as my guide to aiming.

I don't know that I jumped a level per se but I know that my ability to make balls has gone up a lot since learning and using aiming systems other than Ghost Ball. I feel that my game has gone up two balls since 2000 because of it.

I might deliver your case in person and then we can spend time discussing the various systems on the table. :-)

I think it's better to do this in person than try to do it on these forums. In person it seems as if a lot of players try these systems and they start making certain shots that they know are low percentage for them and they go WTF????

It's that WTF? moment that keeps players interested in exploring the various ways to aim.
 
I'm a perfectionist and the way I think is there is a system for everything, don't ask me why maybe started when I was a kid playing video games. I can recall throwing rocks or shooting a basketball, I thought if I did this or that I can throw straighter or faster. Hey I even thought the shoes what were they called pumps? Made me jump higher.

I know there ain't no systems out there that are perfect to where if you did this or that you couldn't miss, cause the game would be boring and no fun at all. The ghostball method was just not for me as I cannot see where it is unless I place my tip a half and inch behind the objectball and swing around to the cueball. Now that's either simple and easy or complicated depending on how you look at it.

I use to practice addressing the cueballs center by finding the right stance for me, to where I don't even have to look at the cueball I just know I'm aligned center cueball. And if you know where to hit the objectball which for me only goes to the edge of the objectball, quarter and center cause after that I don't like looking or try to guess where the ghost ball is after that I use the edge of the cueball from there.

I have always said it's all in the alignment and if you can get urself in the correct alignment you shouldn't even have to look at the cueball except for that split second if ur using English. 8pack proved this in his video do everything while standing up.

But I do use systems notice i said systems. But they all boil down to the same thing
 
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