Question for CJ Wiley about TOI

[JB Cases]

I dare say you might be a little bit jealous of CJ.

All you need to do is invent a new aiming system and come up with a pithy expression like "The Game is the Teacher" and you'll be ready to have your own forum. :bow-down:

Well there might be a little requirement to actually win pro events and be widely recognized as a bonafide champion as well.

That helps if you want people to ask you questions about how to play and expect them to give weight to your answers.

Once upon a time I was given the task of selling imported cues at a show. I hit with the cues and liked them so I thought I would devise a way to get people to hit with them and give me their feedback.

I weighted the feedback based on the level of player they were. C-players and below I pretty much threw out anything they said about the "hit" or performance. B-players were a little more credible and A-players and above were taken very seriously when they gave an opinion on how the cues felt in their hands.

Having taken lessons from many pros I have never failed to learn something from each of them that I had never before learned from any book, video, or non-pro instructor.

So my opinion is that in order to even be considered for any ask-the-pro forum one should actually be a pro with the hardware to back it up.

However on a forum like AZB I would NEVER pigeonhole a professional player into a particular forum. I would bet that there are very few forums in other sports where current and former champions hang out to discuss technique with amateurs. I think AZ has it good when CJ and other pros share their perspectives, stories and methods.

 

[Luther Blissett]

Maybe you have been to the mountain and back after meditating with the Dali Lama.

Maybe you have fasted for weeks and prayed for sustenance from the Creator.

You may have even tread where angels never dare.

All in order to ignore threads that bother you

But as for some of us, we just can't ignore these threads !!!
Months...wow that's pretty good. :thumbup:

I think it's a presumption (and most likely a mistake) to say that Chris is "bothered" by such threads.

I understood him to be saying that he simply sees no value in them.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This immediately organized our focus, and we won our first three matches

I know just what you mean. When I am playing good, I always find myself saying "I'm hitting the ball good". Meaning, I'm striking the cue ball the way I want to. When I'm doing that, the aim, stance, etc. becomes almost meaningless.

KMRUNOUT

Yes, when I was first learning the mental side of pool it was by reading books like 'Zen in the Art of Archery' - 'Inner Game of Tennis' - Zen in the Martial Arts - 'The Way of the Peaceful Warrior' - On the last day of the Mosconi Cup the players were obviously a bit nervous about being 3 matches down so I used one of my old Zen/Gambling "tricks".

I told them to ONLY concentrate on watching the Cue Ball. Not only when they were shooting, when the European Team was shooting too. I know this is something that gets a player the deepest into a trance. You only focus on the cue ball like you are observing it, with no concern what it does, or where it goes. It is YOUR cue ball, I told the team, and when they have it, they are just borrowing it, and must return it very soon.

This immediately organized our focus, and we won our first three matches in a row to make it 9/9. Remember this "trick" if you really want to stay in the zone when your opponent is playing. Keep focus on the Cue Ball, without any thoughts except observing Cue Ball like it's a scientific experiment and your only job is the observation. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Well there might be a little requirement to actually win pro events and be widely recognized as a bonafide champion as well.

In that case, Neil really has his work cut out for himself.

I think CJ having his own forum would be a fantastic idea where he can share his knowledge and experiences all in one place.

 

[lfigueroa]

I guess anyone not wanting to try it or who discounts it can just ignore any thread with TOI in the title... I have been ignoring all of the CTE and PRO One threads for months now...

Yes, but that only got easy to do when all that was moved to the Aiming Conversation sub-forum.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Chrippa]

In that case, Neil really has his work cut out for himself.

I think CJ having his own forum would be a fantastic idea where he can share his knowledge and experiences all in one place.

Sounds good to me. How about it Mr Wilson?:smile:

I like to read about instruction in many ways and forms, choice and my choice what I take to me.
CJ´s explanations I like, many things are very logical and he also puts in a great deal of effort in finding "new" ways to describe what he feels. Not a easy task, try explain the walking in a logical way.

He knows like every Champion how to walk but to explain it is a totally different thing. He and we all do so many subtle things to adjust to the shot (do the walk) we want and we can´t see it with our eyes but we can however see it in the outcome.
The outcome "never lies". I still pick up things that CJ says that makes me understand better (how he thinks and can put in use in "my" way), some things are very obvious to see or hear but I think for CJ they are so (or for any person) "easy" or "the way for him to do it", he does it without thinking (like walking) and thinks that it´s the way everyone does it and doesn´t need so much explanation - sort of...

I like I see others have had is the "speed" issue, how much TOI with different shafts, angles, to much spin etc etc.
The speed issue for instance had a explanation in the 29 ball run vid, he said he choked down on the cue and shorten the bridge for more feel and less speed. I didn´t see that explanation before, maybe I was blind but?!
However the explanation for me is logical and it´s also something I do myself on certain shots.

So instead of making us "TOI students" chasing answers from CJ in threads that wasn´t started by him, please do make a special forum for CJ and the questions for/to him.

Cheers

Chrippa

 

[Icon of Sin]

Sounds good to me. How about it Mr Wilson?:smile:

I like to read about instruction in many ways and forms, choice and my choice what I take to me.
CJ´s explanations I like, many things are very logical and he also puts in a great deal of effort in finding "new" ways to describe what he feels. Not a easy task, try explain the walking in a logical way.

He knows like every Champion how to walk but to explain it is a totally different thing. He and we all do so many subtle things to adjust to the shot (do the walk) we want and we can´t see it with our eyes but we can however see it in the outcome.
The outcome "never lies". I still pick up things that CJ says that makes me understand better (how he thinks and can put in use in "my" way), some things are very obvious to see or hear but I think for CJ they are so (or for any person) "easy" or "the way for him to do it", he does it without thinking (like walking) and thinks that it´s the way everyone does it and doesn´t need so much explanation - sort of...

I like I see others have had is the "speed" issue, how much TOI with different shafts, angles, to much spin etc etc.
The speed issue for instance had a explanation in the 29 ball run vid, he said he choked down on the cue and shorten the bridge for more feel and less speed. I didn´t see that explanation before, maybe I was blind but?!
However the explanation for me is logical and it´s also something I do myself on certain shots.

So instead of making us "TOI students" chasing answers from CJ in threads that wasn´t started by him, please do make a special forum for CJ and the questions for/to him.

Cheers

Chrippa

I agree. I think there should be a dedicated spot other then the main forum for threads regarding TOI.

 

[Neil]

Well to be fair, this way *my* thread, not CJ's. I titled it with a question for him. To be perfectly honest, I don't see the relevance of him being a pro with regard to where *my* thread goes. He is a person just like me who loves pool and has a lot more experience and ability. I figured that since people seem interested in the topic, and CJ seems very forthcoming with info, why not share my question with everyone? People actually care about stuff like this (specifically where threads go)? I'm not as much of an az fanatic...I pretty much only scan the main forum. Anyway I'm very happy I have any place to get the feedback of a player of CJ's caliber. That is rare. I'm focusing on that kind of cool stuff.

KMRUNOUT

Again, did I say he shouldn't be here, either in your thread or in the main forum? NO! So, why take that attitude?? Again, others were stating that he should have his own forum. I merely stated that there is a pro forum, and he should be there. I never said "only there". If the pros on here aren't going to use the pro forum, why even have one? I never stated or implied that he should ONLY be in a pro forum. So, why take the attitude that I did?

 

[Ratta]

Aldo a bit confused. Neil didn t say something like that?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk 2

 

[Neil]

I dare say you might be a little bit jealous of CJ.

All you need to do is invent a new aiming system and come up with a pithy expression like "The Game is the Teacher" and you'll be ready to have your own forum. :bow-down:

WOW, you live way out in left field, don't you? Jealous of what? Believe me, there isn't one thing I have that I would trade for anything he has or had. The mere fact that you would even think like that shows you quite well. Pretty shallow thinking on your part.

 

[8pack]

Earl is a genius when it comes to pocket billiards and I've shared many in depth conversations with him. He "real eyeses" that pool is like a miniature version of golf and tennis in many ways, so we can talk in those terms. You won't see pro golfers or tennis players that don't know how to use spin to increase margin of error through creating zoned approaches.

Earl does "throw" everything in and I "TOI" everything in (with deflection), and it's not like I haven't said this many times before. There's two different ways to do what I suggest, one is through deflection and the other through spin and deflection. I am advocating the TOI method over the spinning method on AZBILLIARDS because it accomplishes the same thing without the 6-8 hours a day of practice.

When I was the #1 Ranked Player in the World I didn't practice more than an hour or two a day. I didn't have to because when we use TOI it doesn't take near the skill and practice to spin AND deflect (throw) the balls in.

You can also play without doing either one, however, you will hit a "wall" in your progress that will be impossible to get over without understanding how zones work - and zones can only be created with spin or defection. These are the facts and I've described these techniques in detail many times on this Forum. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com

I think Toi inside is something you mastered and there's no doubt you could do things a different way.How(and why) you created the connection to the balls on all shots this way baffles me.
Not sure if this has been discussed but at what level should one start this?I would think someone who has just started,mite not wanna try this yet.

Anthony

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Umm ok

I think it's a presumption (and most likely a mistake) to say that Chris is "bothered" by such threads.

I understood him to be saying that he simply sees no value in them.

He is probably not bothered. They don't bother me either. I was in the thread reading about the question to CJ. I saw Chris' astute logic in that he ignores threads that don't interest him. The quote was my backdoor approach to let those know that ignoring a thread, albeit a lost art isn't really that esoteric or even an art. One just decides when they wake up, "I'm not going to get worked up about a thread in the main forum that I think should be elsewhere" OR "I'm not going into that thread to bash an idea or a system".

Just saying. And I do know why the mods haven't done this or that, but I'm taking it to the grave...

I have heard that there is a job opening here for a moderator. Check it out.:wink:

 

[CJ Wiley]

it was also stated that "this would never happen," so, of course this enticed me

Sounds good to me. How about it Mr Wilson?:smile:

I like to read about instruction in many ways and forms, choice and my choice what I take to me.
CJ´s explanations I like, many things are very logical and he also puts in a great deal of effort in finding "new" ways to describe what he feels. Not a easy task, try explain the walking in a logical way.

He knows like every Champion how to walk but to explain it is a totally different thing. He and we all do so many subtle things to adjust to the shot (do the walk) we want and we can´t see it with our eyes but we can however see it in the outcome.
The outcome "never lies". I still pick up things that CJ says that makes me understand better (how he thinks and can put in use in "my" way), some things are very obvious to see or hear but I think for CJ they are so (or for any person) "easy" or "the way for him to do it", he does it without thinking (like walking) and thinks that it´s the way everyone does it and doesn´t need so much explanation - sort of...

I like I see others have had is the "speed" issue, how much TOI with different shafts, angles, to much spin etc etc.
The speed issue for instance had a explanation in the 29 ball run vid, he said he choked down on the cue and shorten the bridge for more feel and less speed. I didn´t see that explanation before, maybe I was blind but?!
However the explanation for me is logical and it´s also something I do myself on certain shots.

So instead of making us "TOI students" chasing answers from CJ in threads that wasn´t started by him, please do make a special forum for CJ and the questions for/to him.

Cheers

Chrippa

I have never ask for any special treatment and that's not why I"m here. It was presented to me there was a need for a champion player to truthfully share their opinions, techniques and stories - it was also firmly stated that "this would never happen," so, of course this enticed me to do it.

My only commitment was stated at the beginning, and that's to tell the truth about what I do on the table and how I do it, and to answer every question that was from players honestly trying to improve their Game. So far I've answered thousands of questions in the last 7 months.

I will respectfully decline any preferential treatment and that includes my own forum. It's been fun mingling with everyone and I will stay around enough time to share 3 more techniques that I've kept to myself. I am designing my own line of cues and once they are released my time will be very limited and my focus will shift to television oriented marketing and developing pool related TV shows.

It's certainly been a pleasure and I will continue to answer every pool related question here or at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

Play Well

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Again, did I say he shouldn't be here, either in your thread or in the main forum? NO! So, why take that attitude?? Again, others were stating that he should have his own forum. I merely stated that there is a pro forum, and he should be there. I never said "only there". If the pros on here aren't going to use the pro forum, why even have one? I never stated or implied that he should ONLY be in a pro forum. So, why take the attitude that I did?

It certainly seemed like you were implying he should go there (from here), as in, not be here anymore. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm confused by the phrase "take that attitude". I stated my thoughts. My attitude with respect to a forum is *always* to state my thoughts and interests and comment on the posts of others. Try not to read too much into what I say. I'm very direct, and say what I mean. That is the only attitude anyone will be receiving from me.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Chrippa]

I have never ask for any special treatment and that's not why I"m here. It was presented to me there was a need for a champion player to truthfully share their opinions, techniques and stories - it was also firmly stated that "this would never happen," so, of course this enticed me to do it.

My only commitment was stated at the beginning, and that's to tell the truth about what I do on the table and how I do it, and to answer every question that was from players honestly trying to improve their Game. So far I've answered thousands of questions in the last 7 months.

I will respectfully decline any preferential treatment and that includes my own forum. It's been fun mingling with everyone and I will stay around enough time to share 3 more techniques that I've kept to myself. I am designing my own line of cues and once they are released my time will be very limited and my focus will shift to television oriented marketing and developing pool related TV shows.

It's certainly been a pleasure and I will continue to answer every pool related question here or at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

Play Well

I thank you for sharing your knowledge, as you know:smile:. And I will continue to follow your posts of course, I´m picking up somethings from them all. I´m getting more and more used to use TOI in "my" way, stepping into the shot with the inside in mind ( will mail you about it - with questions) and from there adjust the spin - it´s working better and better - getting the feel of it. I think this is one of the things you can´t see on a vid, the players viewing of the shot before he gets down, if you go down thinking inside (aiming, preparing) and then on the way down you just pivot a bit to adjust to center or outside - it takes so little of adjustment to make the cb have outside spin if you do it this way, if you cross the vertical axis the need to go more outside of the center with parallel aiming is less imo. Same with any sport that you use a ball with - imo... To produce a draw in golf you go from inside and out and the opposite for fade, ping pong, soccer, bowling etc.

Btw CJ - it wasn´t to give you a special treatment, it was for your students :smile:. A place where your posts is posted it´s easier to find, however I cheat and look on the posts you made so I guess it really doesn´t matter:smile:.

Take care you all and have a great evening, day or whatever you have:smile:

Chrippa

 

[Neil]

It certainly seemed like you were implying he should go there (from here), as in, not be here anymore. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm confused by the phrase "take that attitude". I stated my thoughts. My attitude with respect to a forum is *always* to state my thoughts and interests and comment on the posts of others. Try not to read too much into what I say. I'm very direct, and say what I mean. That is the only attitude anyone will be receiving from me.

KMRUNOUT

Sorry, but I did get a chuckle out of that. I did, because that is exactly what you did to me- you read too much into it.

By "attitude", I meant that too many on here treat the forums the same way they do politics....they pick a side and then don't even bother to listen to what is actually said, they just look at what "side" the person who said it is on in their mind, and then either read into it what they want the other to say, or just plain condemn it without even bothering to actually read it.

 

[jackpot]

C.J. , coming down on angle

C.J.
As I have been working with TOI I have started to see the angle before
I come down on the shot. So I come down on the angle with almost
always with only a half tip inside. If I have a long thin cut shot I still
aim cte and move 1/4,1/2, etc. Using a half tip inside and up and down
I have been able to come down on the angle at the point of the pocket
nearest the ball and know it will deflect into the middle. This way I know
the cue is parrallel because I come straight down, and don't need to
adjust after I am down on the ball. The other thing it has helped is that
it deflects the same amount every time because I am always hitting at the same place. Is this right. Can you say who is making the cues.
Thanks jack

 

[CJ Wiley]

"We only recognize what we become familiar with." 'The Game{in Life}is the Teacher'

C.J.
As I have been working with TOI I have started to see the angle before
I come down on the shot. So I come down on the angle with almost
always with only a half tip inside. If I have a long thin cut shot I still
aim cte and move 1/4,1/2, etc. Using a half tip inside and up and down
I have been able to come down on the angle at the point of the pocket
nearest the ball and know it will deflect into the middle. This way I know
the cue is parrallel because I come straight down, and don't need to
adjust after I am down on the ball. The other thing it has helped is that
it deflects the same amount every time because I am always hitting at the same place. Is this right. Can you say who is making the cues.
Thanks jack

Yes, you will feel {when you really get this down} like your are hitting the same place {TOI} consistently. Like anything there's different levels of your TOI development (the banking system will help too). What happens is your mind starts to associate the angle you need by where you're hitting the cue ball. The "margin" is only a tip and will get to be less as you are hitting the cue ball more precisely.

I posted a run of 29 balls in one pocket, told people what I was doing and some still couldn't see it. This is how it's done, and I can tell when a player is doing it, however, I have a "trained eye". It's like (I would think) it is with "marked cards," you can only see the mark once it's pointed out, then it's obvious.

Up until that point you would NEVER be able to locate the "mark" (like the TOI spot) - this is how it is in life "We only recognize what we become familiar with." 'The Game{in Life}is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com

PS: I can't tell anything about my new custom cue line yet.....it will be announced soon - next comes the TOI Banking Technique - Stay Tuned, it's being filmed this weekend.

 

[pool101]

Does your cue line have the tip offset just a TOI, then you could just say align to center... The TOI is built in!:grin: I get a cut!

 

[jackpot]

banking ?

Banking huh ? Once I get this TOI down I don't figure I will ever be out
of line enough to need to bank it, but you never know. Oh yea , I might
play someone loser breaks and they roll out after they break . So it might
come in handy after all. I'll take it.
jack