Question for those who play in tournaments, do you ?

T

TooManyCues

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If you play in tournaments, do you prefer what I will call open play were everyone in the tournaments is an equal with no handicapping.

Or do you prefer to play under a handicapping system, or rating system where weaker players are give some weight?.

What are the pros and con to both system? Why do you personally like one system over the other?
 
depends on the strength of the field.

in most cases, whatever gets people to show up is fine with me. i do prefer getting weight to giving it :D

-s
 
I like to play in open non-handicaped events, even local ones. It is a way for me to play much better players without breaking the bank. To me handicaps are a league thing or a negotiation point if you are gambling:)
 
TooManyCues said:
If you play in tournaments, do you prefer what I will call open play were everyone in the tournaments is an equal with no handicapping.

Or do you prefer to play under a handicapping system, or rating system where weaker players are give some weight?.

What are the pros and con to both system? Why do you personally like one system over the other?
Click to expand...

What pro tournaments handicap the players? Golf, tennis, world series, super bowl - no. I don't like playing under a handicapping system - but I learned to play with the old boys before there was a weekly tournament at the local room. We had are own tournament:D :D But times have changed so if its the weekly tournament and everyone wants to participate I think it is probably a good application if it gets more people playing, improves their play and the handicapping doesn't eliminate the better player.
 
I consider myself a C player but I prefer to play in open tournaments and here's why:
how are you supposed to get better if you only play people who are about the same skill level as yourself, Yeah, you're going to get kicked around for a while (I'm still getting kicked around) but getting kicked around is just paying your dues
 
Pool halls want to get people in, and handicapping tournaments usually gets more people playing. There are more bad players then good players, and it often seems that they don't want to waste there money. Of course, it will get them better, but most players don't take that into account. By far, the biggest weekly tournament around here is handicapped. Others have a hard time getting enough players, while this one gets 40 or so players every week. I like open tournaments, but I am not in the business of getting people into the pool hall and spending money.
 
Most of the local pool room Saturday afternoon 8 ball tournaments in Shanghai are handicapped, but you don't just play against people at your own level. The top pros in China often appear at these things to play.

I would probably be a C player in the US and I carry a handicap of 6 which means I race to 6 games to win. The pros carry the maximum handicap of 11 so they race to 11. The draw at the beginning of the day is completely open and you get whoever you get as opponents. They are double elimination so you get at least two matches before you are out.

These tournaments are always full and everybody plays seriously to the best of their abilities. The only cost is the loser pays for the table time for the match.
 
I prefer no handicap tournaments - then I don't have to worrry about who is under or over rated.

I like the idea of handicap tournaments but the execution just flat out kills me.

Last week I played in a tournament where I am ranked a 7 and the best players are 13s. I play a guy who is a five and he runs four racks on me. I play another five and he can't make 2 balls. I play a girl who is ranked a five and she plays perfect. I play a guy who is a nine and he plays as good as the 13s. I played one match with a guy ranked a seven and we traded racks - the only other guy in the tournament that was actually ranked where he was supposed to be.

This is why I hate handicap events - the organizers almost NEVER get it right and people get jerked around. Only ONE place I ever saw did it right in my opinion. They used index cards to track the player's finishes and based the rankings on results. If someone complained then they had a comprehensive history of finishes to prove the ranking was correct. Everyone loved it in that room from what I could tell.
 
Definitely an OPEN style, no handicap format is best.

Besides, it is one of the only true ways to improve your game (playing against others who are better without a spot). Playing with a handicap does not provide a true test or measure. It is merely devised to level the playing field.
 
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I would most definitely rather play in a HANDICAPPED tournament.... As long as I am severely underrated... like, massively.

In all seriousness... for the sake of play, I'd rather play everyone even... it brings out the best in me.... for the sake of making money, I'd rather get in as a low player in a handicapped tournament.
 
I prefer open tournaments even though I'm usually outgunned.

I've never seen a handicapping system that's fair. Most around here are based on how often you come in the money and have nothing to do with how well you play. So, you wind up having to beat a guy who plays better than you 6 games to 2. Other TDs use their own subjective criteria which always seems to favor their friends.

And tournaments that bill themselves as being for "B" players or less, inevitably attract all kinds of nits who are no fun to play or beat, plus a few "A" players who are hoping to steal the cash.
 
Tournaments

Well, when I am the top player, open tournaments, otherwise handicapped.

But, since I never get it my way, Open Tournaments are best, after all,
'all men are created equal' ........ Aren't they? ..... LOL (it's those darn women that throw a monkey wrench into everything .... ROFL)
 
I think you've actually missed one style. There are three ways of structuring a tournament.

1) Open. Anyone can enter, everyone plays the same.
2) Open to anyone below a certain speed. A tournaments, B tournaments, etc... Everyone plays the same.
3) Handicapped. Anyone can play, but everyone has a ranking.

I think you've missed #2. I think all three of these tournaments are important and fun to play. Each will encourage and excite you in different ways.

Style one, because you get to play with the "Big Dogs." It's always exciting to see how you will fare here. Maybe you get past the 1st or second round in a tough field and that is an awesome experience for a lower level player. If you win you get to say "I'm the best player in the area!"

Style two, because you get to compare yourself to a bunch of other similar players. If you win, you can say "I'm the best B player in the area!"

Style 3, is exciting because maybe you knock out one of the better players. As long as the tournament is handicapped well, it always feels good to beat a better player. Of course if you're a sandbagger there's no honor in beating someone. Otherwise, this can be a great time. The winner gets to say "I shot above my average level for tonight!"
 
The best player in the field should win..................period. I play in both handicapped tournaments and open pro/am events, and there are good and bad in both. With handicapped tournaments, there's always the debate about players ratings (I once had a "C" player run a 3 pack on me right out of the gate!) However, from an organizers point of view, the handicap gives the lesser players a chance to win, thus resulting in a larger tournament. The way I feel, and I include myself in this, if the lesser players want a better chance at beating the better players...............................THEN GET BETTER!!!
The open events usually draw the stronger players, and scare away the weaker players resulting in smaller draws and a big let down for organizers. But, they result in the best player coming out on top.

Nobody asked Tyson to tie one hand behind his back when they challenged him for the title when he was in his prime.
Nobody asked the Broncos to bench Elway and Davis so that they could have a better chance to win.
Nobody has asked Tiger to use a left handed set of clubs to even things up.
In all sports including billiards (with the exception of gambling), the best player on that given day should be the winner. And those that don't win on that day, and eventually want to win simply need to become the better player.
dave
 
Ideally I think handicaps would be reserved for leagues, and tournaments would simply be about identifying the best players; in other words, open.

That being said, however, I think there are times when it is extremely difficult to run non-handicapped events. In small towns, for example, or areas where there are not many players but a wide range of skill levels, you may have to use a handicap system just to avoid having the same guy winning every single tournament. I know from experience that people in my area will not keep coming in week after week just to donate their $10 or $20 to the local shortstop. Same guy wins the tournament 2 or 3 times in a row, people quit showing up. Plus, these little $10-$20 tournaments, where you usually see the handicap stuff, are just for fun anyway. It's not like anyone's out there trying to pay their bills off of them, and if they are then they have worse problems than having to spot Joe Blow two racks going to seven.

Aaron
 
I like it without the handicap. Where I play they have small races, ussually to just 1 or 2. So, anyone has a shot. The better players ussually win, but not always. You can't handicap something like that because the races are soo small.
 
No handicap.....leaves no room for questions about sandbagging or the fairness of the handi system....it's simple - whoever wins the race is the better player on that table in that moment....
 
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