Question for tournament players

azhousepro

azhousepro

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I am working on an article for the local paper that I run here in Arizona and I have a question for the tournament players out there...

What can room owners and tournament directors do to make a tournament a positive experience for you?
 
AzHousePro said:
I am working on an article for the local paper that I run here in Arizona and I have a question for the tournament players out there...

What can room owners and tournament directors do to make a tournament a positive experience for you?
Click to expand...


I think the number one thing they can do is START ON TIME. This does not happen very often in my experience.
 
I agree with JDB, starting on time would be a big help. Don't let tables sit idle, if there is a match that needs to be played get it going.
 
Mike,

I caanot agree enough with the above 2 replies. It is the most frustrating thing when you have 5 out of the 6 tournament tables idle and everyone is waiting for the director to start matches, return to the room whatever.
 
One of the things that really frustrated me was not starting on time. Usually a guy that is considered a high ranking player will call and say I'm on my way and I've got 2 guys with me. Most of the players were there an hour before start time and it's really unfair to them to make them wait. Another thing they can do is shake hands or at least great every player and thank them for coming. In 1985 I played in a tournament that Joe Kerr was running. 8 of the top 10 players in the country were there along with Efren, Jose, and Rudy Luat. He shook my hand and made me feel like I belonged there even though only 3 or 4 people in the room knew me. Sam
 
Hey satman,

I agree with you 100%. We had Fabio Petroni call our room telling us he was on the way from Jersey. He showed up over an hour late. Mike Zuglan said I'm sorry but, we had to start the event. Too bad. When Mike had other people running tour stops, one guy let Mika, Frankie and another player show up an hour late for their matches and did not forfeit them. Miscommunications? No, went out for food. Sorry. That kind of favoritism is unacceptable to me!

You mention Joe Kerr. A very sad story. Pool or otherwise. One of the best, if not the best event directors I ever worked with. Great tournaments. Always ran smoothly. Just a great guy. Ran into his assistant Myron at the Gabriel's event in Vegas last year.

If the event is multi-day with sufficient tables, I prefer timed matches. Racing from match to match is OK. Knowing when your going to play is better!
 
Well, its a landslide. Starting on time would definitely entice me to play more events. Also providing enough tables so that things move quicker would be a BIG step in the right direction (though I understand there are financial considerations for the owners).
 
AzHousePro said:
I am working on an article for the local paper that I run here in Arizona and I have a question for the tournament players out there...

What can room owners and tournament directors do to make a tournament a positive experience for you?
Click to expand...


I agree to start on time. Another pet peeve is dirty tables. Take the time to brush the tables/clean the balls etc...

Jim
 
I would like to see room owners and Tournament Directors (maybe the same person in some rooms) make it easier for players to see the brackets. This eliminates constant questions like "who do I play next?"

1. I large 32 and 64 DE bracket board, big enough for players standing 6 feet away to read.

2. A decent sound system to hear all the announcements CLEARLY. NOT to be used to admonish players. Only to announce matches.

3. Good snacks, drinks, friendly service personnel.

4. Turn off the Juke box.

5. DO NOT let any players that show up late play. This is very disrespectful to all the players that have arrived on time.

6. DO NOT sell BYES... if you have to let a player in, let them start on the ONE LOSS side.

7. Consistant payouts. 25% of the field, and repeatable payouts. If you have 20 players one week and the same the next week, they will wonder why you changed the amounts. Keep records of your payouts to show any skeptical palyers. I like to see the lowest payout at least twice the amount of the entry fee.

8. Added Money that is based on the number of players not just a lump sum.
And post it in your flyers or room announcements. $10/player up to 30 players. That's $300 for the math challenged. This is not a $300 added tournament but can be billed as such if you just state it as "$300 added based on 30 players"

9. Great playing conditions. Keep the tournament tables in the best shape possible.

10. A sign "Tournament in Progress, please turn Cell Phones OFF" for the spectators that casually walk in and watch.

11. Designated "Practice tables" for players that get the byes in the first round and also for later rounds when players have to wait on matches, befor they play.

12. DON't Ever allow Money matches anywhere near the torunament tables.
Have you ever heard two players playing quietly for money?

13. For TD's, there is a method to playing the brackets. The winners side needs to play to fill in the one loss side opponents. But, the one loss side also needs to have matches played for those opponents. There are more matches on the one loss side and they have precedence over the winners side in the early rounds. The players on the winners side have to be able to accept that the rest of the tournament is still going on when they are waiting on their next match. Only when you have a schedule start times for each match, can you control this.

14. Give lots of advance notice for non-weekly tournaments.

15. LAST but NOT Least.. 75% of the field does not CASH, yet they show up as often or more often for your tournaments than those players that do cash. These players are the backbone of any successful tournament. Listen to them when they offer comments. Thank them for being there and showing up and taking part in this "Test" you have offered. Lots of times these players are your regulars, taking the 'test' against the areas best players.
 
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Starting ON-Time?

This is what I define as 'Starting on Time" if this is different from anyone's experience, please let me know, I am interested in improving this process.

For Weekly tournaments played during an evening or weekend day, and the tournament is expected to be over in the same day, and the average player count is somewhere between 16 and 40.

If 'starting on time' is defined as;

As soon as the signups are closed,
the TD fills out the brackets, (most time consuming part)
makes the table assignments,
go over the rules,
and then annouce the the matchups.

Starting a tournament 15 minutes after the last player signs up... is IMO 'Starting On Time"
 
Tom In Cincy said:
I would like to see room owners and Tournament Directors (maybe the same person in some rooms) make it easier for players to see the brackets. This eliminates constant questions like "who do I play next?"

1. I large 32 and 64 DE bracket board, big enough for players standing 6 feet away to read.

2. A decent sound system to hear all the announcements CLEARLY. NOT to be used to admonish players. Only to announce matches.

3. Good snacks, drinks, friendly service personnel.

4. Turn off the Juke box.

5. DO NOT let any players that show up late play. This is very disrespectful to all the players that have arrived on time.

6. DO NOT sell BYES... if you have to let a player in, let them start on the ONE LOSS side.

7. Consistant payouts. 25% of the field, and repeatable payouts. If you have 20 players one week and the same the next week, they will wonder why you changed the amounts. Keep records of your payouts to show any skeptical palyers. I like to see the lowest payout at least twice the amount of the entry fee.

8. Added Money that is based on the number of players not just a lump sum.
And post it in your flyers or room announcements. $10/player up to 30 players. That's $300 for the math challenged. This is not a $300 added tournament but can be billed as such if you just state it as "$300 added based on 30 players"

9. Great playing conditions. Keep the tournament tables in the best shape possible.

10. A sign "Tournament in Progress, please turn Cell Phones OFF" for the spectators that casually walk in and watch.

11. Designated "Practice tables" for players that get the byes in the first round and also for later rounds when players have to wait on matches, befor they play.

12. DON't Ever allow Money matches anywhere near the torunament tables.
Have you ever heard two players playing quietly for money?

13. For TD's, there is a method to playing the brackets. The winners side needs to play to fill in the one loss side opponents. But, the one loss side also needs to have matches played for those opponents. There are more matches on the one loss side and they have precedence over the winners side in the early rounds. The players on the winners side have to be able to accept that the rest of the tournament is still going on when they are waiting on their next match. Only when you have a schedule start times for each match, can you control this.

14. Give lots of advance notice for non-weekly tournaments.

15. LAST but NOT Least.. 75% of the field does not CASH, yet they show up as often or more often for your tournaments than those players that do cash. These players are the backbone of any successful tournament. Listen to them when they offer comments. Thank them for being there and showing up and taking part in this "Test" you have offered. Lots of times these players are your regulars, taking the 'test' against the areas best players.
Click to expand...

16. DO NOT give a privilege to smokers!!! Thats THEIR problem!
 
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :D

Thats were I tend to end up. When I start hearing "so and so's paid out $800 or $1300 on Saturday", is when I really want to go there.

Someone else made a really good point. There is nothing more annoying than a tournament that has 54 people in it and 1st place pays $300 with all side pots. Those type of tournaments I tend to stay away from.

It was a shame when they stopped doing the calcuta out here. We need to figure a loop hole or something because people tend to go where the money is.

I also like it when pool halls do the brackets on a laptop and use a projector. Usually on a wall thats visible from anywhere in the room.
 
breaknrun said:
It was a shame when they stopped doing the calcuta out here. We need to figure a loop hole or something because people tend to go where the money is.
Click to expand...

Hey breaknrun,

Ever visited a golf club during one of their amatuer tournaments? I'll bet they have a calcutta for their players. Its just that we're slimey druggies. They are high class citizens. Arizona is no different than any other state. Check to see what happens if the house takes no percentage of the auction. Works here! Good luck.
 
I think Tom has an extensive list that covers most points.

I think the most important point, as noted by almost everyone, is starting on time.
Tom also makes a great point -- TURN OFF THE JUKE BOX!

Along with the other points, which are all good, I will add that a shot clock should be used for the extremely slow players, especially in large tournaments. One or two of these players can create delays what will snowball and make a tournament run way past a reasonable ending time.

This may not be a popular point, but it should be considered. Most of us work in the morning and finishing a tournament at 1:00am or later is totally unacceptable.
 
START ON TIME WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

No concessions. I don't mean no food, I mean make it a forfeit of match if any player concedes a shot/game. It's OK to concede when just two players are involved, but everything affects everyone else in a tournament not just the two players involved.

HAVE A PLACE FOR SPECTATORS TO WATCH.

The way for room owners and players to make some real money is if spectators come and spend their money in the joint. Spectators (even bar regulars) won't stay if they can't be comfortable watching or feel like they're not part of the action, or worse yet, in the way!

Along this same line, the room owners could then advertise the tournaments as a spectator venue and encourage their regulars to root for the home team/guy (we used to just make a small flyer for league night and hang on the wall, but the possibilities are endless for free advertising). I've seen this happen in league play and I think the bar owners really do some decent business on an, otherwise, slow night.

Oh, did anyone mention?: START ON TIME WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

Jeff Livingston
 
Have written rules for the tournament and post them...

Then don't arbitrarily change rules to suit a minority of players. Only change the rules if a majority of the players (from various skill levels) think it would be good to do so. (It is not unusual for top gun players to want rules changes which will favor them and for lesser skilled players to want rules changes which will be in their favor. This is of course in conflict.)

Don't go changing the rules each week depending on who shows up for the tournament. Get a good set of rules which keeps things moving along and prevents disagreements, then stick to them. (Open after the break, call pocket, etc.)

Don't ban the best players! How will your players ever learn to compete with the best if they can't play against them? These "best" players will be sure to show up in tournaments elsewhere, best to learn to play them at the local level.

For small local tournaments: Pay a 4th and 5th place (if possible depending on brackets). It can be *any* amount! $2 or $3 will do. This gives the lesser skilled players a chance to "be in the money". You should see the look on a players face when they win something for the first time in their lives. The better players will balk at this as they want every cent for themselves, but point out that all those people losing every week are the people supplying the prize money. It is good to keep these lesser skilled players happy and doing so will encourage them to come back. Keep in mind, the more players who come to the tournament, the higher the payouts...
 
AzHousePro said:
I am working on an article for the local paper that I run here in Arizona and I have a question for the tournament players out there...

What can room owners and tournament directors do to make a tournament a positive experience for you?
Click to expand...

I think after reading all the replies, most of the topics have been discussed.

The only things i would add are...

Roomowners stop being so greedy. If i'm there to play in a tournament, i don't really enjoy when there are tables still being rented out to the local customers. (at the beginning of the tournament)
Personally, i have witnessed some great players get stuck next to a group of kids that could care less about who is playing next to them, with horrible results. Then you have your spiteful locals who i have witnessed getting tables next to people they root against or people that they root for, and sharking accordingly.

It's one thing to section off a group of tables towards the end of an event and rent everything else. Nothing wrong with that. But cut the players a break. No one needs the extra garbage going on while they are trying to play.

The other thing is when some pool room has 2 types of tables. Perfectly maintained immaculate equipment, and junk. It never ceases to amaze me how a "name" rarely if ever gets stuck on the junk. It seems that the "non names" are the ones who have to play on dead or bouncy rails and have balls roll out on them all the time, where the "name" goes about his business as usual, with no extra problems being caused by the equipment.

Everyone payed the entry fee, so everyone should be treated as equal. Table assignments should be made at random with no regard for who is a name or not.

and i guess the worst case scenario would be the guy who gets stuck on the JUNK who has to play NEXT to a bunch of retards.


SUPERSTAR
 
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I have a friend in Indianapolis named Mac Ashby who runs great tournaments. Always sets times up on the board, and will forfeit anyone who doesn't show up in the 15 minute grace period. Although with the calcutta's, most tournaments don't get started as expected.
I think Tom covered almost everything in his list too. Maybe all tournament promoters and directors should call him first for directions. Sam
 
I know it's already been mentioned but you must have enough tables, I recently played a 32 player tournament that had 4 tables :( Waiting 45 minutes in between matches just isn't acceptable. Good way to ruin a tourny.
 
Fair

Run a tourny fair for one fair for all. Being the equipment guy for the men's pro touur for many years, I've seen a lot.

1. Added money must be guranteed, no matter how many entrys you get..
2. all players are treated equal.
3. draw from a bingo cage.[one promotor mentioned eariler, was famous for and did "PLAM" pills for a top player, or players], making sure they had an easy draw.
4. let the juke-box sing out. Years ago, we played with bowling, and juke boxes making all kinds of noise. Never bother us. Just glad to have a place to play.
5. Players need to stop bitching about added money, times, brackets hard to see, [hard for all to see], and play to win and just stop bitching.
6. If the players don't like the format, the place, or the people, buy your own room and go for it.
7. Some guys think it's all gravey for room owners to host a tourny. Bull Crap. Try one, see if you like it.
8. In the Hosting of a tourny you do this, add money, stop regulars from playing, [taking a chance they go to another room and don't come back],Getting some of your regulars hustled by jerks, spend money and time on advertising, rearranging your room, to make room for players a spectators alike, and the list goes on. Then some players think you the room owner, owe them something for them being there, and won't spend a dime, and the list goes on and on.They want free coffee, drinks and sodas, ect, ect.

Now please don't think I'm down on players, these are things that have happened over the years.So stay off my butt, guys.

Some rom owners are just the same, add no money, take all they can and think we the players, are all jerks.Treat us as if were second class folks.

To all my friends and players alike, just be thankful, we have a place to play.

It's gettin better guys. Really.........

blud
 
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