Questions about instructors
- Thread starter 7forlife
- Start date
I agree completely. An old road buddy of mine who played at a B level would always let me know if I was raising up on a shot and certain other things, that I couldn't feel myself doing when I was playing bad.
I haven't competed lately but I would say that on a good day I'm an A player, and on a not-so good day I'm a B or B+. When I'm well-practiced, I'm capable of playing the occasional match at open level --- All on 9 ft. tables, of course.
Nearly all of my students have been below my level. I have helped players better than me but they don't need the same type of attention that weaker players need. I would help a better player by spotting one or two things that they may be doing that they may not have realized. Usually the open player or pro knows when something's wrong, and what they need is someone to spot them and pick up on the cause of the problem. Then they're off on their own again.
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While I'm not a certified instructor, and at best my game is a B+ level, I have studied the game so long that I would not feel out of place giving advice to a better shooter. Many players I have run into can play well, but don't know some things that can help them. For example, one of the shots I see even good players not know is when you shoot a ball past the point to pocket it by compressing the cushion and allowing the ball to slide in, or knowing what english to use to help with off angle caroms or in 8 ball to help you make a ball by following yours in past your opponents when it's blocking the pocket.
Knowledge in a teacher, and being able to see how the player can correct something or add something to their game is every bit as important as how you can play. There are several people that don't play as good as me, or at least not much better that I would take advice from, even if they can't always execute the shot they are explaining.
Knowledge in a teacher, and being able to see how the player can correct something or add something to their game is every bit as important as how you can play. There are several people that don't play as good as me, or at least not much better that I would take advice from, even if they can't always execute the shot they are explaining.
Pathetic Shark
Banned
Would it be fair comment to say you (and the others listed by Buddha) are primarily geared to improving beginners or rank amateurs?
If so, where would A players go if they wanted to go to the next level? Are there specialist instructors for higher level players?
To the second part of your excellent analysis, I think it's even more pertinent to straight pool, where instruction at the higher levels is predominantly focused on picking out the correct patterns and mastering different break shots.
-roger
I think most of the reason why top players don't seek out instruction very often, especially from lower level players, is that a huge part of being a good pool player is being able to work things out for yourself and being able to find solutions that work in game situations. Because pool has a limitless number of situations that good players need to adapt to on the fly, simply being spoon fed information from an instructor can only take you so far.
They might be able to give weaker players the tools to start out on a path of understanding how to play well, but actually getting there is up to the individual. Pro players, and A players for that matter, generally already possess those tools and thus will not benefit as much or at all from an instructor that probably doesn't understand the game as well as they do.
I think the difference is that the physical aspect of pool is relatively insignificant compared to the mental aspects. A better comparison would be chess. I am pretty sure that in chess, the stronger your instructor is, the better (provided he is effectively able to teach what he knows).
If Stephen Hawking decided to study pool for five years, I highly doubt he would bring much to the table beyond what Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett have already figured out, or at least nothing practical in competition. At the most he would probably figure out some understudied, but obscure physical effect such as Z kicks or hold up english on multiple rail cue ball paths. It would certainly be interesting to listen to, but not very practical towards becoming a good player.
No, actually I enjoy working with advanced players a lot. I hope they would come to me more often. However, I find that advanced players don't look to instructors for help very often. Most of them prefer to work things out on their own.
Beginner and intermediate players are more prone to ask for help. But that is not a reflection on my or anyone's knowledge and abilities as a teacher. It's a reflection on the population of players who ask for help.
You asked a question, but clearly want only answers that echo your view. I agree with Roger and others who are trying to explain to you that playing skills are not the same as teaching skills.
There are many of us who love the game and love to share our knowledge, but choose not to put in the hours it takes to become a professional player.
BigBrother
Registered
And you came to that conclusion how?
There was no "view" (none that I saw anyway) just a question on why aren't more instructors seen in major pool tourneys.
Please quote the post you are drawing your conclusion from, perhaps I missed it.
who the fug wants the pay cut ? You gots to remember most pool instructors do not teach as a full time occupation, and the very, very few who do, I believe enjoy teaching, not to mention that payment will be forthcoming.... not so when playing in a tourney. Not to mention the cost to travel to tourneys... not a very lucrative business for most professional players...
Hi all,
in my opinoin teaching or instructing pool has to be a passion! Just the time of earning knowledge never ends. You need so much communication skills to be able to transfer the necessary stuff, that this journey of learning will never end.
The discussion about if it s necessary to be a strong player to be a good instructor/teacher is old. I used to have also very good and long discussions with players and also with instructors. So this discussion could already begin with the question *who is a strong player*-- so what would be a strong player in your opinion?
My personal opinion is, that you need really many skills to teach somebody (next to really advanced knowledge in many directions). Next to the *normal* stuff, which would be about pool itself, you need to be knowledged in psychology, kinetics, and furthermore you need a very good ability to observe. You need experience of observating hundreds if not thousands of players to be able to detect the issue you re searching for- to be able to help the student. I for myself learnt also the oldschool way-all by myself- with help of books and playing much stronger players. A few years after I begun had the luck to have friendly relationships with world class players (carom scene and also pool scene)- especially to learn from people who love what they do was for me the key to improve.
I met super highly skilled players who haven t been able to teach you really something. Since I got more and more myself into instructing (was more because I m not able to play myself anymore- healthwise), I learnt to learn again-and I loved it. I m for sure no world class player- I have also a problem with those ratings (A, B, C and so on). I was on a good level- being able to tease also the big guns, also beaten some guys who had been national champions, or also international champions. But I would never say, that I was on the same level. I practiced with players who ran out so many centurys in straight pool on me……that I m not able to count em. Even 300 + runs. In competition then I usually won always against em—am I better player then? Sure not- those super talented players had been just on a journey of learning. 1-2 years later, by learning the mental skills more and more, they would have beaten me far easier. But it felt good, if such players are talking good about you later-if they remember, that they finally learnt something from you. It felt good, because you gave them something they are happy about. And that YOU have been able, to help.
3 years ago then I met a friend, who makes his instructing job for a living—and he told me about a guy he gave *his official trainings license*- This guy had the problem, that his playing abilities had been really not that good. But his ability to observe, and his communications skills were f…ng amazing. He had the sense to find the right way to talk and he also was able to *listen* (also a necessary skill).
So my friend *jumped* in for this guy-who really wanted to instruct and teach-so that he can get his license (in the official instructor program you have to run through a playing ability test)—and he received it. Til now heard a lot of good things about him. I don t want to say, that he would also be able to teach world class players or so—but imo he s able to teach really good. And he can observe and detect technical flaws on a high level.
the problem what he will always have is, if he will meet guys like you (no offend my friend ^^)—because he will have no reputation. –you would rate him as a c player-and you would say, that you cannot learn from him, right?
You can believe (just talking about me personally now), that it takes so much time to work with a student, that you 100% will not have enough time to play pool. If I work with a student, it will be always with video-without exception. If I would have about 2 hours of video stuff from a student, it takes for sure 8-10 hours (minimum) to go through it and work out all the things I need.
So atm I m having just 8 students (next to the guys I instruct in a club for free). So to calculate the time-and then knowing that you work 8-10 hours a day in shifts. Where would you have time to play pool?
And if you make a living from it- and you furthermore having really a good reputation, then you will have more than enough students. And you will have to plan your time perfectly.
You shown up the name Tony Robles—I am very sure, (without knowing Tony personally), that Tony is busy whole day by doing all the things he has to do with teaching, organizing etc.
Tony maybe will start here and there in a tournament-but he benefits from his *earlier earned* abilities. And he is also able to still shoot on good days every player on the planet out of the poolhall- but sure not consistently anymore. And this just because of his limited time.
To teach and instruct pool it takes very much time—and this is a point almost everyone seem to not understand. And to learn all those stuff, from that students will benefit later…..-this stuff has to be learnt first. It s a neverending journey of learning.
Shortcut at the end: I also agree, that a teacher/instructor has to be able to *shoot some balls*. But I don think that the “teacher” has to be a world beater-that s defintley not necessary!
But the question is always: Does the student believe what the instructor tells him? So it s all about reputation! No instructor will be able to sell the holy gral- he can come over with a lot of keys, which will open the door for the students. His job is to give him the *right key* that will fit for him.
lg from overseas,
Ingo
in my opinoin teaching or instructing pool has to be a passion! Just the time of earning knowledge never ends. You need so much communication skills to be able to transfer the necessary stuff, that this journey of learning will never end.
The discussion about if it s necessary to be a strong player to be a good instructor/teacher is old. I used to have also very good and long discussions with players and also with instructors. So this discussion could already begin with the question *who is a strong player*-- so what would be a strong player in your opinion?
My personal opinion is, that you need really many skills to teach somebody (next to really advanced knowledge in many directions). Next to the *normal* stuff, which would be about pool itself, you need to be knowledged in psychology, kinetics, and furthermore you need a very good ability to observe. You need experience of observating hundreds if not thousands of players to be able to detect the issue you re searching for- to be able to help the student. I for myself learnt also the oldschool way-all by myself- with help of books and playing much stronger players. A few years after I begun had the luck to have friendly relationships with world class players (carom scene and also pool scene)- especially to learn from people who love what they do was for me the key to improve.
I met super highly skilled players who haven t been able to teach you really something. Since I got more and more myself into instructing (was more because I m not able to play myself anymore- healthwise), I learnt to learn again-and I loved it. I m for sure no world class player- I have also a problem with those ratings (A, B, C and so on). I was on a good level- being able to tease also the big guns, also beaten some guys who had been national champions, or also international champions. But I would never say, that I was on the same level. I practiced with players who ran out so many centurys in straight pool on me……that I m not able to count em. Even 300 + runs. In competition then I usually won always against em—am I better player then? Sure not- those super talented players had been just on a journey of learning. 1-2 years later, by learning the mental skills more and more, they would have beaten me far easier. But it felt good, if such players are talking good about you later-if they remember, that they finally learnt something from you. It felt good, because you gave them something they are happy about. And that YOU have been able, to help.
3 years ago then I met a friend, who makes his instructing job for a living—and he told me about a guy he gave *his official trainings license*- This guy had the problem, that his playing abilities had been really not that good. But his ability to observe, and his communications skills were f…ng amazing. He had the sense to find the right way to talk and he also was able to *listen* (also a necessary skill).
So my friend *jumped* in for this guy-who really wanted to instruct and teach-so that he can get his license (in the official instructor program you have to run through a playing ability test)—and he received it. Til now heard a lot of good things about him. I don t want to say, that he would also be able to teach world class players or so—but imo he s able to teach really good. And he can observe and detect technical flaws on a high level.
the problem what he will always have is, if he will meet guys like you (no offend my friend ^^)—because he will have no reputation. –you would rate him as a c player-and you would say, that you cannot learn from him, right?
You can believe (just talking about me personally now), that it takes so much time to work with a student, that you 100% will not have enough time to play pool. If I work with a student, it will be always with video-without exception. If I would have about 2 hours of video stuff from a student, it takes for sure 8-10 hours (minimum) to go through it and work out all the things I need.
So atm I m having just 8 students (next to the guys I instruct in a club for free). So to calculate the time-and then knowing that you work 8-10 hours a day in shifts. Where would you have time to play pool?
And if you make a living from it- and you furthermore having really a good reputation, then you will have more than enough students. And you will have to plan your time perfectly.
You shown up the name Tony Robles—I am very sure, (without knowing Tony personally), that Tony is busy whole day by doing all the things he has to do with teaching, organizing etc.
Tony maybe will start here and there in a tournament-but he benefits from his *earlier earned* abilities. And he is also able to still shoot on good days every player on the planet out of the poolhall- but sure not consistently anymore. And this just because of his limited time.
To teach and instruct pool it takes very much time—and this is a point almost everyone seem to not understand. And to learn all those stuff, from that students will benefit later…..-this stuff has to be learnt first. It s a neverending journey of learning.
Shortcut at the end: I also agree, that a teacher/instructor has to be able to *shoot some balls*. But I don think that the “teacher” has to be a world beater-that s defintley not necessary!
But the question is always: Does the student believe what the instructor tells him? So it s all about reputation! No instructor will be able to sell the holy gral- he can come over with a lot of keys, which will open the door for the students. His job is to give him the *right key* that will fit for him.
lg from overseas,
Ingo
I was once in the mind set a few yrs ago that you should not be able to out play, or shoot better than your instructor. Boy was I WRONG!!!!!! I have a super smart teen age daughter that happend to be watching me and my friends play. She is a really observant girl and after a few hrs of us playing she was noticing slight differences in our strokes. although she doesnt know what is good or bad but she did point out the differences to us. At that point I realized that a real instructor can spot a bad stroke vs a good one, even if their body is unable to perform. But I still feel that you need a higher skilled playing instructor for reading the tables. just my two cents.
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To the topic creator:
Why does the #1 golfer in the world need a swing instructor?
Why does the #1 golfer in the world need a swing instructor?
Probably the same reason he needs a caddy to discuss strategy and club choices.
Thank you Randy,
so it was finally *understandable*- even if this small *Grammar Devil* was sitting nonstop on my shoulder-lol.
HOpe you re feeling fine *Pops*.
lg from overseas,
Ingo
The vast majority of college professors are not millionaires or anywhere close.