Questions about switching to carbon fiber

G

grobbs

Greg R
I recently got more into pool again. Bought a table a few months ago and a decent cue (McDermott G331).

The cue came with a wood (G Core) shaft, 13mm. This week I decided to get a carbon fiber, McDermotts Defy shaft. However, PoolDogz only had 12mm Defy shafts in stock. I bought it anyway as the lady explained I can easily return it if I don't like it.

It arrived today. I played for an hour, and I'm now miscueing a lot! And also missing a lot of balls as well!

So my question is, is it just an adjustment period getting use to carbon fiber? Or maybe the fact that its a 12mm compared to the 13mm I'm use to? Or something else? I'm considering returning it and sticking with wood at this point, but I do love the look and feel of the carbon fiber.

Any help/advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks
 
Shaft selection is a very personal thing. I haven't had the chance to try the Defy shaft, as I don't know anyone who uses it here (not the US). If you're missing balls, it could be that it deflects differently than the g-core. The G-core is not particularly low deflection, while most carbon shafts tend to deflect less. Obviously, you will then miss sidespin shots if you're not compensating correctly to the new shafts properties. If you don't have good technique you could also miss by applying unintended sidespin. If your bridge is not on the shafts effective pivot point (because it has high or low deflection compared to what you're used to), you may miss more shots, than you would with a shaft where you are bridging at that point for most of your shots. It takes time to learn how to sight with thinner or thicker shafts, also.

If you are miscueing, that probably isn't the shafts fault. You are either cueing to far out from the center of the cueball, you are not cueing correctly (swiping) or the tip is misshapen or glazed. Rubbing up the tip and taking care to chalk it, you should work your way slowly away from center ball, to see at what point the miscues happen. First shot a tip away from center, then moving slowly away in 1/4 tip increments. I recommend using draw, as this is a more easy way to diagnose problems. This will teach you the limits of the equipment and your cueing. If you find that you can't apply spin to the ball at all without miscueing frequently, I'd strongly suspect the tip is bad. It could also be a problem with the ferrule/vault plate, but you'll typically hear a clicking sound or feel that something is off. I've played with probably more than a dozen McDermotts throughout the years and they are very competent at designing shafts and tapers.

I used to own a G-core shafted McDermott cue and while the cue and shaft were overall excellent, I was less impressed with the tip. It was as if they had dipped it in water or something, it was hard and crumbly almost. I cut that thing off immidiately. Maybe McDermott applies some sort of treatment to their tips? IDK, but that was at least my experience. It was not as if it was an exotic or proprietary tip either, it was a standard Everest tip, like almost every shaft came with back then.
 
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grobbs said:
I recently got more into pool again. Bought a table a few months ago and a decent cue (McDermott G331).

The cue came with a wood (G Core) shaft, 13mm. This week I decided to get a carbon fiber, McDermotts Defy shaft. However, PoolDogz only had 12mm Defy shafts in stock. I bought it anyway as the lady explained I can easily return it if I don't like it.

It arrived today. I played for an hour, and I'm now miscueing a lot! And also missing a lot of balls as well!

So my question is, is it just an adjustment period getting use to carbon fiber? Or maybe the fact that its a 12mm compared to the 13mm I'm use to? Or something else? I'm considering returning it and sticking with wood at this point, but I do love the look and feel of the carbon fiber.

Any help/advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks
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I was like that too for about a solid week but am finally started to figure it out.
 
Your problem is that you just got back into pool and you are ALREADY experimenting with equipment changes. I respect everyone's explanations here about why you are confused- but I just don't recommend equipment changes until your game reaches certain plateaus - for early learners of the game, or those recharging their interest after significant time off from the game - Early and frequent equipment changes will probably cause more harm than good- yours is a perfect example of this.

Do yourself a favor, decide now on one cue and one shaft and stay with it until you see significant improvements in your game - I don't care what cue or shaft you choose- your game will adapt to it in time and your consistency will reach a natural level for you as you incorporate proper stroke mechanics and the correct pre and post shot routines for you. THEN, think about equipment experimentation.

I see this in pool and even more so in golf- and the equipment sellers will hate me for my advice- they make a living on folks who experiment way too much - or folks who have to constantly burn a hole in their pocket spending $$ on new stuff. Advertising is all psychological - it's goal is to make you feel inadequate in one form or another without the latest and greatest - don't be a fool!
 
Nah... I went through the same thing when a attempted to change from a 12.5mm wx700 to the 12mm wx900.

You're judging tip placement based on muscle memory with stroke / bridge hand orientation. This is combined with the smaller diameter tip is placing the edge of the tip beyond the threshold for a miscue.

Just a mental reset is all it takes. Over coming habit takes time. This has nothing to do with CF

I bounce around from the 12.5 (normal player now) to the 12, and occassionally my predator 11.7. No different then the re-calibration required when flipping between solid maple and LD. ...well it is different, the type of re-calibration, but a re-calibration none the less...lol
 
The shaft can't cause miscues. IMO that shaft is the worst of all the cf shafts i've tried for one reason, the finish is horrible. Why they didn't use the super-slick finish of every other cf shaft is beyond me. It reminds me of the old Cuetec fiberglass coated finish, very sticky thru your bridge. A guy at my 'hall bought one and i hit about three balls and handed it back. I don't like a glove and i don't see how you could use the Defy without one.
 
grobbs said:
I recently got more into pool again. Bought a table a few months ago and a decent cue (McDermott G331).

The cue came with a wood (G Core) shaft, 13mm. This week I decided to get a carbon fiber, McDermotts Defy shaft. However, PoolDogz only had 12mm Defy shafts in stock. I bought it anyway as the lady explained I can easily return it if I don't like it.

It arrived today. I played for an hour, and I'm now miscueing a lot! And also missing a lot of balls as well!

So my question is, is it just an adjustment period getting use to carbon fiber? Or maybe the fact that its a 12mm compared to the 13mm I'm use to? Or something else? I'm considering returning it and sticking with wood at this point, but I do love the look and feel of the carbon fiber.

Any help/advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks
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You made that kind of investment and only gave it an hour? Give it more time, sir. You'll be coming closer to the hole in no time.
 
mikemosconi said:
Your problem is that you just got back into pool and you are ALREADY experimenting with equipment changes. I respect everyone's explanations here about why you are confused- but I just don't recommend equipment changes until your game reaches certain plateaus - for early learners of the game, or those recharging their interest after significant time off from the game - Early and frequent equipment changes will probably cause more harm than good- yours is a perfect example of this.

Do yourself a favor, decide now on one cue and one shaft and stay with it until you see significant improvements in your game - I don't care what cue or shaft you choose- your game will adapt to it in time and your consistency will reach a natural level for you as you incorporate proper stroke mechanics and the correct pre and post shot routines for you. THEN, think about equipment experimentation.

I see this in pool and even more so in golf- and the equipment sellers will hate me for my advice- they make a living on folks who experiment way too much - or folks who have to constantly burn a hole in their pocket spending $$ on new stuff. Advertising is all psychological - it's goal is to make you feel inadequate in one form or another without the latest and greatest - don't be a fool!
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I agree with this sentiment. Everyone's game varies, even when you're playing a lot every day. If you're just getting back into it and/or you're not playing a lot, you're going to see a lot of variance. Switching cues is only going to increase the variance. The last time I switched shafts was four years ago and I did it at a time when I was playing roughly 4-5 times a week, competing in weekly tournaments *at least* once a week, along with anything bigger that happened locally (at least once a month). I was probably hitting balls upwards of 30 hours each week. Because of this, transitioning from Predator 314 to OB Pro+ went smooth and those shafts have *very* similar deflection. I deliberately did it KNOWING I could get a couple dozen hours at the table within four or five days.

If I were playing an hour a day, or less, it would have taken me weeks to adjust.
 
I doubt it's the CF. But you've switched shaft diameter and likely your tip. Either of those could be a cause--as well as simple confirmation bias (that is, you are very aware of changing your tools, concerned about the effect it will have on your game, and so you notice more anything that happens, like miscues, even if the rate hasn't actually changed).
 
Before convicting the shaft of the miscues, you could put the same tip on the CF shaft as is on your McDermot shaft (assuming you know what tip it happens to be)
 
MitchAlsup said:
Before convicting the shaft of the miscues, you could put the same tip on the CF shaft as is on your McDermot shaft (assuming you know what tip it happens to be)
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I would hesitate condemning the tip too. More often than not, miscues happen because you put a bad stroke on the ball. I mean, of course lack of chalking, bad chalk, bad tips, and tips in bad shape can lead to miscues but I think it's safe to assume the shaft came with a quality tip in new shape. I say keep everything as-is and just keep playing.
 
Read MikeMosconi's post again... Those selling equipment hate the theory, but it really helps your game to simply find a good cue with a shaft you like and practice-practice-practice with perhaps a bit of tip experimentation as they need replacement.

One reason I like watching old tournament videos is noting how well these guys played using a triangle rack and old fashioned shafts made of solid maple... To listen to the equipment hype of today, guys like Efren, Grady, Nick, Earl? They shouldn't have been able to run 3 balls, let alone rack after rack. But there they are....on low quality tape...doing just that!
 
easy-e said:
You made that kind of investment and only gave it an hour? Give it more time, sir. You'll be coming closer to the hole in no time.
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Oh yes I plan to. I had just got it that morning. It's beginning to grow on me more. I just didn't want to use it too much if I was going to return it.

Thank you
 
mikemosconi said:
Your problem is that you just got back into pool and you are ALREADY experimenting with equipment changes. I respect everyone's explanations here about why you are confused- but I just don't recommend equipment changes until your game reaches certain plateaus - for early learners of the game, or those recharging their interest after significant time off from the game - Early and frequent equipment changes will probably cause more harm than good- yours is a perfect example of this.

Do yourself a favor, decide now on one cue and one shaft and stay with it until you see significant improvements in your game - I don't care what cue or shaft you choose- your game will adapt to it in time and your consistency will reach a natural level for you as you incorporate proper stroke mechanics and the correct pre and post shot routines for you. THEN, think about equipment experimentation.

I see this in pool and even more so in golf- and the equipment sellers will hate me for my advice- they make a living on folks who experiment way too much - or folks who have to constantly burn a hole in their pocket spending $$ on new stuff. Advertising is all psychological - it's goal is to make you feel inadequate in one form or another without the latest and greatest - don't be a fool!
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Thanks for the advice! That does make a lot of sense. I definitely fell into the equipment hype after reading about carbon fiber shafts. I'll stick with it and see it through. Thanks!
 
If you just got back into pool, I would say it wasn't the switch to carbon, it was the switch generally, and switching to that small of a tip. If your miscueing a lot, try to hit the cueball at or very near center.
 
grobbs said:
I recently got more into pool again. Bought a table a few months ago and a decent cue (McDermott G331).

The cue came with a wood (G Core) shaft, 13mm. This week I decided to get a carbon fiber, McDermotts Defy shaft. However, PoolDogz only had 12mm Defy shafts in stock. I bought it anyway as the lady explained I can easily return it if I don't like it.

It arrived today. I played for an hour, and I'm now miscueing a lot! And also missing a lot of balls as well!

So my question is, is it just an adjustment period getting use to carbon fiber? Or maybe the fact that its a 12mm compared to the 13mm I'm use to? Or something else? I'm considering returning it and sticking with wood at this point, but I do love the look and feel of the carbon fiber.

Any help/advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks
Click to expand...

Give it a solid week, at least, to decide if you can aim with an LD shaft.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Willie Mosconi played OK without Carbon Shaft.

Willies had skill, did not need new dangled gadgets.
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Why are you comparing normal people to someone gifted like Willie mosconi.

Bobby jones was one of the best golfers in history and he played with hickory shafts. I guess we shouldn’t play with new fangeled equipment when golfing either. 🙄 go back to yelling at kids for being on your lawn
 
trob said:
Why are you comparing normal people to someone gifted like Willie mosconi.

Bobby jones was one of the best golfers in history and he played with hickory shafts. I guess we shouldn’t play with new fangeled equipment when golfing either. 🙄 go back to yelling at kids for being on your lawn
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Because normal people have this idea in their dumb heads, they cn be a great player at some game if they just have this magic pill, chalk, or golf club.

Skill is learned, not sold on Amazon, if it was everyone would be great.
 
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