Questions for the Pool FANATICS!

[lodini]

In an effort to figure this whole thing out, and find out how to make pool shoot itself into a world of pros and big payouts and newspaper headlines and BLING... I wanted to get some input from you guys on the following... (I wrote this at first in another thread, but feared I was hijacking it )

OK, so here's what I am thinking...

Before pool really takes off into a huge big-time pro sports industry... let's ask ourselves a few questions.

- Can you all see our pros committing themselves to one organization? (following their rules and guidelines when it comes to appearance, gambling, etc.)
- Can you all imagine a time where our pros would be out of reach to the general pool player? (i.e., you won't be able to walk up to a pro and ask for a game, or an autograph... and you won't see them walking around a tournament, accessible to everyone...) Would that be OK for everyone here to lose that, or would it just piss us all off?
- Would all of us be willing to pay $50-$100 per day to be a spectator at a qualifying tournament? And even more $$ for a national event? (on top of that, are we all willing to travel for these events?)
- Do we think there are enough general "fans" that can be transformed into FANATICS about the sport?
- What about the sport is the real draw? Is it the gamble, the drama, the woofing, the hustling, or just the spirit of competition?
- Would we possibly be able to combine all the regional tours into a breeding ground... a qualifying league... for one big national tour?

I ask these questions to you all (the only AVID pool fans I know of because sometimes it's hard to tell if there is even a market for pro pool amongst us. (Some of us say pool is boring on TV, some say it's boring in person! etc, etc, etc.)

These are just some thoughts/potential limitations... what do you guys think?

 

[DeadPoked]

In an effort to figure this whole thing out, and find out how to make pool shoot itself into a world of pros and big payouts and newspaper headlines and BLING... I wanted to get some input from you guys on the following... (I wrote this at first in another thread, but feared I was hijacking it )

OK, so here's what I am thinking...

Before pool really takes off into a huge big-time pro sports industry... let's ask ourselves a few questions.

- Can you all see our pros committing themselves to one organization? (following their rules and guidelines when it comes to appearance, gambling, etc.)
If any organization came along with enough money and events... every pro player would join.

- Can you all imagine a time where our pros would be out of reach to the general pool player? (i.e., you won't be able to walk up to a pro and ask for a game, or an autograph... and you won't see them walking around a tournament, accessible to everyone...) Would that be OK for everyone here to lose that, or would it just piss us all off?
I'd like to see the pro's make a better living but I don't want to lose this part of pool. This side of pool is the main reason I enjoy attending major tournaments. So basically I don't want them to earn enough money that they their heads get too big. Just slightly disproportionate.

- Would all of us be willing to pay $50-$100 per day to be a spectator at a qualifying tournament? And even more $$ for a national event? (on top of that, are we all willing to travel for these events?)
No

- Do we think there are enough general "fans" that can be transformed into FANATICS about the sport?
Of course there are enough general fans, millions in fact. The difficulty is transforming them into pro pool fans. I believe it's impossible to do so today. Pool will never be mainstream and I am fine with that. There are too many things into todays world to occupy peoples time. Back when Fats & Mosconi played on TV and got so much coverage... there were 3 channels on TV
- What about the sport is the real draw? Is it the gamble, the drama, the woofing, the hustling, or just the spirit of competition?
All of the above
- Would we possibly be able to combine all the regional tours into a breeding ground... a qualifying league... for one big national tour?
They'll never join together. Would be too difficult and doesn't make sense to do so.
I ask these questions to you all (the only AVID pool fans I know of because sometimes it's hard to tell if there is even a market for pro pool amongst us. (Some of us say pool is boring on TV, some say it's boring in person! etc, etc, etc.)

These are just some thoughts/potential limitations... what do you guys think

 

[okinawa77]

In an effort to figure this whole thing out, and find out how to make pool shoot itself into a world of pros and big payouts and newspaper headlines and BLING... I wanted to get some input from you guys on the following... (I wrote this at first in another thread, but feared I was hijacking it )

OK, so here's what I am thinking...

Before pool really takes off into a huge big-time pro sports industry... let's ask ourselves a few questions.

- Can you all see our pros committing themselves to one organization? (following their rules and guidelines when it comes to appearance, gambling, etc.)
If any organization came along with enough money and events... every pro player would join. I agree. Tak a look at the IPT Kevin Trudeau fiasco, and he was trying to make it into an online gambling scheme.

- Can you all imagine a time where our pros would be out of reach to the general pool player? (i.e., you won't be able to walk up to a pro and ask for a game, or an autograph... and you won't see them walking around a tournament, accessible to everyone...) Would that be OK for everyone here to lose that, or would it just piss us all off?
I'd like to see the pro's make a better living but I don't want to lose this part of pool. This side of pool is the main reason I enjoy attending major tournaments. So basically I don't want them to earn enough money that they their heads get too big. Just slightly disproportionate.Again, I totally agree. I like the fact that many pro players are approachable, but I want them to be able to make a decent living playing pool, also.

- Would all of us be willing to pay $50-$100 per day to be a spectator at a qualifying tournament? And even more $$ for a national event? (on top of that, are we all willing to travel for these events?)
NoIn reality, NO. There are hardly any spectators durin gthe televised events as it is. I personally would pay $50, but "would all of us be willing"......no

- Do we think there are enough general "fans" that can be transformed into FANATICS about the sport?
Of course there are enough general fans, millions in fact. The difficulty is transforming them into pro pool fans. I believe it's impossible to do so today. Pool will never be mainstream and I am fine with that. There are too many things into todays world to occupy peoples time. Back when Fats & Mosconi played on TV and got so much coverage... there were 3 channels on TV I don't think it is impossible to do so. In the other thread, I stated that we need a Tiger or Jordan of pool to jump start the popularity of the sport. I am much more willing to "watch" a pool match that is exciting and inspiring. Sure, I can appreciate the beauty of getting precision CB set up on the next shot, but to outsiders of the sport...that is very boring. Would you rather watch a basketball game with guys just shooting 3 pointers all day long, or NASCAR where there aren't any crashes/wipeouts/recoveries?
- What about the sport is the real draw? Is it the gamble, the drama, the woofing, the hustling, or just the spirit of competition?
All of the aboveI have to admit, watching Fats talk smack while playing Mosconi is very entertaining.
- Would we possibly be able to combine all the regional tours into a breeding ground... a qualifying league... for one big national tour?
They'll never join together. Would be too difficult and doesn't make sense to do so.I have a dream....of building a giant pool hall in the center of the U.S., and hold all the major tourneys there.........but that is only a dream....that I don't have the funds to make happen. Combining the existing tours into 1?....I don't think that will happen unless the sponsors will feel they get enough out of it (money/advertising/etc...)
I ask these questions to you all (the only AVID pool fans I know of because sometimes it's hard to tell if there is even a market for pro pool amongst us. (Some of us say pool is boring on TV, some say it's boring in person! etc, etc, etc.)

These are just some thoughts/potential limitations... what do you guys think

I hope pool spring boards into the spot light, but I am just going to continue improving my game....and see what happens.
And see if I can find a way to pay my bills while playing pool all day long....I'll be much happier.

 

[av84fun]

In an effort to figure this whole thing out, and find out how to make pool shoot itself into a world of pros and big payouts and newspaper headlines and BLING... I wanted to get some input from you guys on the following... (I wrote this at first in another thread, but feared I was hijacking it )

OK, so here's what I am thinking...

Before pool really takes off into a huge big-time pro sports industry... let's ask ourselves a few questions.

- Can you all see our pros committing themselves to one organization? (following their rules and guidelines when it comes to appearance, gambling, etc.)

Yes...but ONLY if that organization has a SIGNIFICANT guaranteed net worth...say $50 million...that would enable it to promote tournaments with $50-100k first place prize money with proportionately scaled down money for the 2-20th place finishers...say $5,000.00 for 20th place. Such a well funded organization could also achieve LIVE coverage of at least 4 Major tournaments per year.


With such GUARANTEED funding, pro pool will remain a fragmented industry with numerous "warring tribes" funded in large measure, by one off gambling sessions.-

Can you all imagine a time where our pros would be out of reach to the general pool player? (i.e., you won't be able to walk up to a pro and ask for a game, or an autograph... and you won't see them walking around a tournament, accessible to everyone...) Would that be OK for everyone here to lose that, or would it just piss us all off?

That will never happen in the lifetime of any member of this forum.

- Would all of us be willing to pay $50-$100 per day to be a spectator at a qualifying tournament? And even more $$ for a national event? (on top of that, are we all willing to travel for these events?)

No, no and no. And why would we when we can get tickets to any major sporting event for less than that?

- Do we think there are enough general "fans" that can be transformed into FANATICS about the sport?

No...at least not without MAJOR prize money and LIVE TV coverage of the events. Just guess what the TV viewership...and therefore, league revenue would be if baseball games were broadcast on a tape-delay basis often a month or more after the game. Baseball team franchises would go broke if that ever happened.

- What about the sport is the real draw? Is it the gamble, the drama, the woofing, the hustling, or just the spirit of competition?

Well, there doesn't seem to be much of a draw at all. Not for TV coverage and not for ticket sales. The observable fact is that VERY, VERY few of even the most active pool players either watch the events on TV or buy tickets to the events...not even the BCA in Vegas where 8,000+ DEDICATED pool players are within a few hundred yards of the pro events.

- Would we possibly be able to combine all the regional tours into a breeding ground... a qualifying league... for one big national tour?

Sure. IF there was one big national tour. But if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump is ass so often! (-:

But seriously, all major sports have some sort of a "farm system" and the regional tours would be...and is...pro pool's farm system...except that LOTS of the "major league" pros play in the farm system events which is GREAT for the regional tour promoters...who I GREATLY admire...but a sad commentary on the state of pro pool in America today.

I ask these questions to you all (the only AVID pool fans I know of because sometimes it's hard to tell if there is even a market for pro pool amongst us. (Some of us say pool is boring on TV, some say it's boring in person! etc, etc, etc.)

Well, people can vote with their wallets or their feet (as in using them to escape the scene)and for whatever reason, people are fleeing the scene in DROVES. Why? Re-read the above comments. But also, realize that Americans (and people of all nations) have only 24 hours in a day and have limited budgets to spend on entertainment.

In America, we have a choice of spending our sports-oriented TV and spectator time and money on football, baseball, hockey, basketball, golf etc. Note that when baseball teams win the World Series, and ditto for basketball and baseball...people RIOT IN THE STREETS in an expression of enthusiasm (however warped).

Can you IMAGINE riots after the U.S. Open in pool? A couple of fights in the parking lot over some guy not paying up on a side bet maybe!

And there you have it.

Regards,
Jim

 

[lodini]

So far all we've seen here is a lot of "no's" and "that can't happen". How can pool ever become a big deal if even we, the truly avid fans, aren't really behind it the way that fans of other sports are?

And in that case, why do we keep complaining that the payouts are small?

 

[Roy Steffensen]

So far all we've seen here is a lot of "no's" and "that can't happen". How can pool ever become a big deal if even we, the truly avid fans, aren't really behind it the way that fans of other sports are?

And in that case, why do we keep complaining that the payouts are small?

Because we like to complain, that's why we are poolplayers

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[ShootingArts]

seating price

One of the issues of pool is that it is a small sport, literally! With two and a quarter inch balls and a 4.5'x9' table, how large of a live audience can actually see the game being played? Football generates spectator dollars because a stadium seating sixty thousand is considered small. Can you see putting a pool table in the middle of even a custom built stadium for pool seating half that many? Most couldn't see the game and if you are going to watch it on screen, watch it on screen at home.

How about Pay per View? Few would spring thirty bucks or more to watch the match live and almost nobody would buy it after hearing the results.

The one small shot pool has is the network television audience and major sponsors. That is the only thing that will create a financially viable tour. Anything else, a sugar daddy or taking money from one pool player to give to another, is doomed to failure.

My opinion is that until we figure out a way for pool to be attractive to a general audience and therefore major sponsors, we are just whizzing in the wind.

Hu

 

[whitewolf]

So far all we've seen here is a lot of "no's" and "that can't happen". How can pool ever become a big deal if even we, the truly avid fans, aren't really behind it the way that fans of other sports are?

And in that case, why do we keep complaining that the payouts are small?

If one of us hits the multi-million dollar lottery, then, and only then, will pool become big.

To non pool players, pool is BORING. Let's face it, when you step back and watch a pool match, it is more boring than bowling, seriously!!!!!!! However, the WPA is sure playing a lot on ESPN lately - anyone noticed. Love my Tivo: I just set it to record all billiards matches and sit back while it records while I am somewhere else.

Leagues are the only viable solution - so let's help they grow. Also, the price of pool tables MUST come down - otherwise it will never grow due to the cash flow problems with the bars and pool halls.

 

[SJDinPHX]

So far all we've seen here is a lot of "no's" and "that can't happen". How can pool ever become a big deal if even we, the truly avid fans, aren't really behind it the way that fans of other sports are?

And in that case, why do we keep complaining that the payouts are small?

Good thread Iodini. All the negativity surely is disheartening. There are millions of avid pool fans who would like to see our sport upgraded in all areas, TV, prize money,pro tours, etc. Many of our top players (and their
sponsors with big $$$) have tried for years to organize the pro's in our
sport. As of yet, no one has found the right formula. Until that happens
pool will remain on the back burner. Sad but true!!
Dick
PS Did you ever evaluate my thoughts I PM'd you on this subject?

 

[SJDinPHX]

If one of us hits the multi-million dollar lottery, then, and only then, will pool become big.

To non pool players, pool is BORING. Let's face it, when you step back and watch a pool match, it is more boring than bowling, seriously!!!!!!! However, the WPA is sure playing a lot on ESPN lately - anyone noticed. Love my Tivo: I just set it to record all billiards matches and sit back while it records while I am somewhere else.

Leagues are the only viable solution - so let's help they grow. Also, the price of pool tables MUST come down - otherwise it will never grow due to the cash flow problems with the bars and pool halls.

How can you make that statement? "pool is more boring than bowling"
Why do you bother tivo-ing pool matches. You must be one of the,
less than avid, pool fans Iodini was refering to. Leagues are great
for pool, but believe me thats not a solution to our dilema.

 

[lodini]

Good thread Iodini. All the negativity surely is disheartening. .....
PS Did you ever evaluate my thoughts I PM'd you on this subject?

It certainly is disheartening. Money for big payouts doesn't just *poof* out of thin air... it's going to take a strong fanatical base of people who will really get behind things and spend their own money in the sport (via tickets, webcasts, retail merchandise, etc)... Unfortunately, at this point, based on the feedback I've received, I really don't think pool has the kind of backing and support that it takes.

I have been super busy, but will definitely take a look through this week. I'll let you know!

 

[BRKNRUN]

I think it all can be done...

The problem is that marketing and coverage to the "general public" is none existent.

Currently it seem to me that the "General Public" is Leage Players and Weekly Tournament players....

All the marketing and results announcements are done via pool related magazines, pool related internet sites and or local pool realated publications ...

The real General Public never really hears about what is going before (or after an event)

The only mainstream NEWS coverage I have ever seen has been some kind of short documentry about a hustle or hustler.

To get pool into the eyes of the real General Public....Pool promoters have to go to them.....not wait for them to happen to find a pool rag...or happen to stumble upon Azbilliards as they were searching for a replacement Pool Filter...

Here is a PRIME example....The World Pool Masters is going to be held in Vegas in May.........Have you seen ANY promotion of the best players in the world other than in a pool related Rag / MAg / Internet site??? .......I have not...

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[lodini]

This is just an observation I just had- anyone lese notice that pool on T.V. is more popular? Now, I don't mean pro pool- I'm talking about commercials, little pool scenes in different shows, the fact that Niteline puts on Danny B.

It almost seems like the public is ready for it, but there is nothing to give them.

Yes! There are scenes with people playing pool on General Hospital at least 3 times a month

 

[worriedbeef]

- Can you all see our pros committing themselves to one organization? (following their rules and guidelines when it comes to appearance, gambling, etc.)
If any organization came along with enough money and events... every pro player would join.

this is the part that's like a viscious circle. players will join when there is enough money, there won't be enough money until players join. over and over and over...

 

[midnightpulp]

I'm wondering if it would prudent to generate mass interest in the game via an entertainment show and if there's a boon, move on and try to create a lucrative pro tour.

Maybe some type of reality show profiling a known player who often gambles. Why can't there be sort of a televised version of Playing off the Rail? Say, Joe Rogan backing whomever, they go on the road, and we follow their journey.