Questions on Designing a Cue

[JoeyA]

I'm working on designing a cue for my son. I haven't picked the cue maker just yet. I've got a couple of questions and welcome any additional ideas that any of you might have. Some background. My son isn't a pool player and plays only once a week for a few games at a time but he loves archaeology and anything that is old. The other factor is that my son wants to use some of that 200 year old salvage wood from the Great Lakes for most of the cue.


The first question is the wrap area. Is it a silly idea to leave the wrap area void of any design, inlays etc, in hopes that in future years, if he decides to install a wrap, the cue will be ready for a cuemaker to cut the cue in that area and easily install a wrap? (Don't know if it will be easy to install a wrap at a later date).

The second question is I would like for my son's cue to have "some" lower deflection properties and I would like one of the shafts to have a hole drilled into the first 4 inches of the shaft and ferrule and filled with some type of light-weight filler, also maybe a very, short ferrule.... but I don't know what diameter hole should be drilled or what type of ferrule that should be used??? Joe, Jr. as they call him in the weekly tournament he plays in, is more comfortable with the typical 13mm diameter shaft with pro taper but I prefer the 11.75 mm shafts with concical taper and lower cue ball deflection. In time, I expect he will too. I'm thinking that a small hole drilled in the 13mm shafts might lower the cue ball's deflection......??


Do four point cues look better than six point cues? It must be a four point or a six point? It can't be a five pointer....

The final question is the cue's design is going to have everything to do with my son's personal hobby.

I would like to get pricing from three up and coming cuemakers. Can I detail the specifications without providing the actual color/design combination and still get fair pricing (or do I need to provide the design which I have draw to scale in Corel Draw 12.0)?

Which "up and coming" cuemakers would you suggest?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have. Before I go to the cuemakers, I want to at least clear up at least some of these questions because I don't want to waste any of the cuemakers' time.
JoeyA

 

[dr9ball]

he loves archaeology and anything that is old. The other factor is that my son wants to use some of that 200 year old salvage wood from the Great Lakes for most of the cue.


The first question is the wrap area. Is it a silly idea to leave the wrap area void of any design, inlays etc, in hopes that in future years, if he decides to install a wrap, the cue will be ready for a cuemaker to cut the cue in that area and easily install a wrap? (Don't know if it will be easy to install a wrap at a later date).

I would believe the cuemaker could inlay some fossils into the cue if they were small by cutting a pocket and then filling it over with some clearcoat or plastic window covering. They could also probably suspend the fossil in a clear resin to make the inlay and have the proper thickness for turning the inlay down flush with the curvature of the cue.

Do four point cues look better than six point cues? It must be a four point or a six point? It can't be a five pointer....

there's nothing wrong with a 5 or 10 point cue. My new Bender will have 20 (10 on top and 10 in the butt sleeve) Why don't you ask him how many points he would like?


The final question is the cue's design is going to have everything to do with my son's personal hobby.

What's his hobby? I didn't see that here.

I would like to get pricing from three up and coming cuemakers. Can I detail the specifications without providing the actual color/design combination and still get fair pricing (or do I need to provide the design which I have draw to scale in Corel Draw 12.0)?

Which "up and coming" cuemakers would you suggest?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have. Before I go to the cuemakers, I want to at least clear up at least some of these questions because I don't want to waste any of the cuemakers' time.
JoeyA

As far as the tip size, why not get him 4 shafts. Two at 13mm that he likes and two at 11.75 that you like. Good luck with getting a nice cue for your son.

 

[JoeyA]

As far as the tip size, why not get him 4 shafts. Two at 13mm that he likes and two at 11.75 that you like. Good luck with getting a nice cue for your son.

Thanks a lot Rufus. I'm trying to keep the price down and you're telling me four shafts.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Joey, cutting a wrap groove at a later date is not a problem.
If you are going to use salvage wood or a nice wood for the handle, I guess its up to the owner as to whether they want to cover it up at all later.

As far as drilling a hole in the shaft, I can send you the measurement for doing that if you wish. It was given to me by another maker and I'm sure he wouldn't mind if I passed it one to you. I have used 2 of his ferulless shafts and they did play very well. He doesn't fill the void in with anything except line the hole with CA to strengthen it.

Tommy (HangEmHigh) does make a ferulless shaft but don't know myself if he bores the first few inches of his shafts.

 

[rayjay]

I'm working on designing a cue for my son. I haven't picked the cue maker just yet. I've got a couple of questions and welcome any additional ideas that any of you might have. Some background. My son isn't a pool player and plays only once a week for a few games at a time but he loves archaeology and anything that is old. The other factor is that my son wants to use some of that 200 year old salvage wood from the Great Lakes for most of the cue.


The first question is the wrap area. Is it a silly idea to leave the wrap area void of any design, inlays etc, in hopes that in future years, if he decides to install a wrap, the cue will be ready for a cuemaker to cut the cue in that area and easily install a wrap? (Don't know if it will be easy to install a wrap at a later date).

The second question is I would like for my son's cue to have "some" lower deflection properties and I would like one of the shafts to have a hole drilled into the first 4 inches of the shaft and ferrule and filled with some type of light-weight filler, also maybe a very, short ferrule.... but I don't know what diameter hole should be drilled or what type of ferrule that should be used??? Joe, Jr. as they call him in the weekly tournament he plays in, is more comfortable with the typical 13mm diameter shaft with pro taper but I prefer the 11.75 mm shafts with concical taper and lower cue ball deflection. In time, I expect he will too. I'm thinking that a small hole drilled in the 13mm shafts might lower the cue ball's deflection......??


Do four point cues look better than six point cues? It must be a four point or a six point? It can't be a five pointer....

The final question is the cue's design is going to have everything to do with my son's personal hobby.

I would like to get pricing from three up and coming cuemakers. Can I detail the specifications without providing the actual color/design combination and still get fair pricing (or do I need to provide the design which I have draw to scale in Corel Draw 12.0)?

Which "up and coming" cuemakers would you suggest?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have. Before I go to the cuemakers, I want to at least clear up at least some of these questions because I don't want to waste any of the cuemakers' time.
JoeyA

For a cuemaker, I highly recommend Joe Callaluca. He's way under the radar, makes a fantastic playing cue, precision inlays, and is reasonably priced and knowledgable. I'm playing with a "ferruless" shaft he made and it is really great. You can get pricing without specifying most woods, but some specialty/exotic woods will be higher. The wrap area should probably be left as just wood, very highly figured, if a wrap is a possiblilty in the future. Some people like 4-pointers, some like 6. What does your son like? Mike Bender makes 5-pointers. Research Joe in the gallery, he's a good man and excellent cuemaker.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Ray, when I first became a member here, Joe C was one of the first cue makers I took note of. He was great back then and he has surpassed the early days by 100 fold.

 

[PaulieB]

My personal opinion would be to just order a cue that you like the design of with a very common pin style ... so that you can just buy a LD shaft of some sort for it. I've heard of designing a cue, but I've never heard of designing the actual manufacturing process for the cue maker ... and I can't imagine getting a cue maker that you choose to drill holes or design a shaft just the way you want to. They have their designs and name to stand behind and I can't imagine them jumping through hoops to come up with some semi-LD shaft design that you have in mind.

As far as cutting into the butt to be able to install a wrap later, that is usually no problem ... I would suggest not using the salvage wood for that area if that is your ultimate design, obviously.

If your son likes 13mm shafts now but for some reason you want him to like what you do (which this thought makes me wonder, as everyone is different) then toss a G-core shaft on for now and later toss on a Z-2. Get a pin that is common, let him try a Z-2 from one of your cues and see if he likes it, etc.

*edit* BTW, it isn't a crime if he ends up liking a wrapless cue with a 13mm, non-LD shaft to play with. You'll find a ton of players on this forum that like exactly these specs and can shoot lights out. I just hope you aren't trying to press your preferences into his play style without letting him find his own way.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I can't imagine them jumping through hoops to come up with some semi-LD shaft design that you have in mind.

Altho there are makers who have their ideals and methods and many don't like altering what they know works. Thats simple, they have learned the hard way what works and what doesn't specially for them and they won't hesitate to let you know. Thats fair and understandable, right?

That said, you'd be surprised at how many makers will go out of their way to help you build and get the cue you want.
There are many ways of doing things and as long as you don't violate the basic principals of making a cue, then almost anything can go.
There are many ways to skin a cat.

Drilling out the end of a shaft and using tip pads and a tip without a ferulle is nothing new and is becoming more common place these days.
Each cue maker might have a differing opinion on what is right and not but it isn't hard to get one made that way for yourself.

 

[Lexicologist71]

I've seen the price on some salvage wood and it made my head hurt. Snakewood looked like a bargain after that.

 

[vasilios]

do you already have some of the salvage wood,if so post some pics!

bill

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I've seen the price on some salvage wood and it made my head hurt. Snakewood looked like a bargain after that.

You gots dat right! You could buy an entire cue for the price of one lake shaft.

 

[wontonny]

Just a side question...

What makes lake salvaged wood so sought after? Is it because it's been aged? Because I know that people tend to like old growth wood for shafts.

 

[JoeyA]

Joey, cutting a wrap groove at a later date is not a problem.
If you are going to use salvage wood or a nice wood for the handle, I guess its up to the owner as to whether they want to cover it up at all later.

As far as drilling a hole in the shaft, I can send you the measurement for doing that if you wish. It was given to me by another maker and I'm sure he wouldn't mind if I passed it one to you. I have used 2 of his ferulless shafts and they did play very well. He doesn't fill the void in with anything except line the hole with CA to strengthen it.

Tommy (HangEmHigh) does make a ferulless shaft but don't know myself if he bores the first few inches of his shafts.

Thanks Blue Hog Ridr! I received your PM and asked about the void. No need to reply. Thanks again.

For a cuemaker, I highly recommend Joe Callaluca. He's way under the radar, makes a fantastic playing cue, precision inlays, and is reasonably priced and knowledgable. I'm playing with a "ferruless" shaft he made and it is really great. You can get pricing without specifying most woods, but some specialty/exotic woods will be higher. The wrap area should probably be left as just wood, very highly figured, if a wrap is a possiblilty in the future. Some people like 4-pointers, some like 6. What does your son like? Mike Bender makes 5-pointers. Research Joe in the gallery, he's a good man and excellent cuemaker.

Because of the design we won't be using a 5 pointer. Thanks for the suggestion of Joe Callaluca.

My personal opinion would be to just order a cue that you like the design of with a very common pin style ... so that you can just buy a LD shaft of some sort for it. I've heard of designing a cue, but I've never heard of designing the actual manufacturing process for the cue maker ... and I can't imagine getting a cue maker that you choose to drill holes or design a shaft just the way you want to. They have their designs and name to stand behind and I can't imagine them jumping through hoops to come up with some semi-LD shaft design that you have in mind.

As far as cutting into the butt to be able to install a wrap later, that is usually no problem ... I would suggest not using the salvage wood for that area if that is your ultimate design, obviously.

If your son likes 13mm shafts now but for some reason you want him to like what you do (which this thought makes me wonder, as everyone is different) then toss a G-core shaft on for now and later toss on a Z-2. Get a pin that is common, let him try a Z-2 from one of your cues and see if he likes it, etc.

*edit* BTW, it isn't a crime if he ends up liking a wrapless cue with a 13mm, non-LD shaft to play with. You'll find a ton of players on this forum that like exactly these specs and can shoot lights out. I just hope you aren't trying to press your preferences into his play style without letting him find his own way.

My son and I butt heads every now and then but our tastes are incredibly similar. He is just starting his journey into the pool world and I am only looking ahead for him. Whether this voice of experience is right or not makes no difference. I expect that he like me, will continue to experiment and try to find his own way. I want to offer him additional options to try with minimal investments. I wish my father had suggested some different paths for me to follow, even if they didn't lead me to the destination of my destiny. But I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes, I wish I had "forced" my will on my son but like I always say, "It is up to each man to work out his own salvation". Right now, I am just trying to provide him with some additional options that he may utilize in the future.

One question though, is a Mike Bender pin a Z-2?
Thanks.. JoeyA

Just a side question...

What makes lake salvaged wood so sought after? Is it because it's been aged? Because I know that people tend to like old growth wood for shafts.

My son likes things OLD, very old, especially things like the Lake Salvage Wood. He has seen it and likes the color and natural beauty, "sugar blemishes" and all.

JoeyA

 

[rayjay]

Mike Bender's pins are a very unusual 3/8x14. Because of the pitch, I have had lots of problems getting joint protectors made, and I'm sure you'll run into that with a Z-2 also. Also, I have to say, although old growth and pretty, salvaged lakewood has gone through a cellular change and some, like me, find it sorta lifeless. Different strokes...

 

[JoeyA]

Mike Bender's pins are a very unusual 3/8x14. Because of the pitch, I have had lots of problems getting joint protectors made, and I'm sure you'll run into that with a Z-2 also. Also, I have to say, although old growth and pretty, salvaged lakewood has gone through a cellular change and some, like me, find it sorta lifeless. Different strokes...

You said a lot there.