R There Any Top Level Pro's that DON'T usa a LD Shaft?

JoeyA said:
As most of you know, I have studied parapsychology as a young man and I want to make a prediction based upon my keen extra sensory perception. :wink:

Within the next 10 years, most top level players will be playing with a LD shaft. It will be stiff and have low cueball deflection. It will not be made of standard maple or ash.

I purposefully used top level players instead of "professional players" because as we know, many professional players in every sport are often sponsored by companies that sell various equipment to their particular industry.

It may be much sooner than this even as soon as 1-2 years. The technology and interest in building performance cues is increasing and as each wave of new technology comes on board, there will be others seeking to create the magic baton.

I even predict that players of below average ability will be purchasing these cues in large numbers because they will actually be able to see measurable differences in their ability to play more consistently.

The future is looking good for technology in pool. (AND IT WON'T BE JUST ABOUT THE HYPE).
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JA, I have to believe ya. But just look at Secretariat...I know it's horse racing...It's the most competitive/expensive breeding and training regimen in the world. They will "Geld" a young Colt in a minute.. But there hasn't been a new school player using new equipment come close. He's unparalleled on the track and the breeding stall...he throw's his progeny. Seattle Slew maybe?

Babe Ruth was powered by Beer hotdogs and Women...Barry Bonds was powered by what?

"Technology" is not always a good thing.

I guarantee you My mother made better hand churned butter from the family milk cow than any oleo a supermarket sells.
 
LD is a simple explanation. And the result *Low Deflection* can also be reached with a shaft, which hits like regular shaft. It s just about the knowledged cuemaker.

And the professionals have to watchout for the money- there s so less money in the pro-circus, that most pro-players would also play with a 80 inches long buffaloe-bone.
 
Pangit said:
JA, I have to believe ya. But just look at Secretariat...I know it's horse racing...It's the most competitive/expensive breeding and training regimen in the world. They will "Geld" a young Colt in a minute.. But there hasn't been a new school player using new equipment come close. He's unparalleled on the track and the breeding stall...he throw's his progeny. Seattle Slew maybe?

Babe Ruth was powered by Beer hotdogs and Women...Barry Bonds was powered by what?

"Technology" is not always a good thing.

I guarantee you My mother made better hand churned butter from the family milk cow than any oleo a supermarket sells.
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Pangit:

The problem is that you are comparing MILESTONE people/animals (one in ten million).

There will probably never be another like Babe Ruth -- because all those records he made were done with a hickory baseball bat (hickory is the hardest, densest, and heaviest "common tree" wood in all of North America). Hickory is no longer used; today's wooden baseball bats are made of ash or maple, which are *much* lighter. So the mighty Babe accomplished all those feats basically handicapped compared to today's players. He was definitely one in ten-million -- but for a different reason -- he fell into the sport he was born to play.

Does that mean another won't come along that won't shatter Babe's records? Absolutely not. They are probably born every day; the problem is "will they choose baseball / pick up a baseball bat" and not a basketball or some other sport?

Will someone come along that will finally top Mosconi's 526? Yes -- absolutely. They are all among us. Right here, right now. The problem? Will that person "fall into" the cue sports, and not choose, say, archery or golf instead?

Hidden talents. That's what it's all about. Can you discover them? That's your life's work.

-Sean
 
Some people say I'm psychic, others say I'm just, well never mind. :D

I've seen the future and the future of performance pool cues are cues built with materials other than solid maple and solid ash.
 
JoeyA said:
Some people say I'm psychic, others say I'm just, well never mind. :D

I've seen the future and the future of performance pool cues are cues built with materials other than solid maple and solid ash.
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JoeyA:

*OBVIOUSLY*, it's going to happen. I think one of the pioneers of alternative cue material technologies is right here among us -- AZB screenname "conetip" out of New Zealand. As you know, New Zealand is the first country to *finally* defeat the US in sailing for the America's Cup, where it was thought the America's Cup trophy itself was tightly bolted into its display case in NY -- for over 150 years (the longest running sports dinasty record). Now they are a force to be reckoned with, and the US is having a hard time keeping up with them. Obviously, sailboats have long explored and implemented alternative materials, like woven/weaved graphite, so the New Zealanders have really come up to speed in this area more than anyone else.

I think that replacement material is going to be graphite, only because that material itself can be manipulated more than any other, to replicate the feel and properties of other materials, or even introduce a new feel/property that the "traditional" material could never offer.

It's definitely food for thought!
-Sean
 
PistolPat said:
Efren obviously, Django, Alcano, who are all world beaters play with non ld shafts. A pro who uses a maple shaft told me when I was in the philippines.. "Those ld shafts are for people who can't keep the cue ball in line "......to each his own..
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Back when the regular 314s were in production Alcano appeared to play with those exclusively. Since the 314-2s have been the norm I've seen him play with it a couple of times, but he does appear to use a standard shaft now. He switches cues so much it can be hard to keep track of :)
 
I'm pretty sure Alex Pagulyan plays with a Predator shaft. It doesn't really matter, though. I remember when most of the top pros played with Meucci.
 
this post made my day

this is exactly why I laugh at people who pay thousands for a cue. Ive played with LD shafts before and the only one I ever liked was a first gen Z shaft, now I use a maple shaft 11.5 on a cheap sneaky and love it. You want to add more action to the ball go for a smaller tip or stroke it harder. Dont get me wrong, I would kill for a scruggs, by far the best cue I ever played with as far as feel, but in the end its all subjective. Best non-pro I ever played against used nothing but house cues, couldn't stand two piece cues and this boy could shoot, ran four racks on me before I ever got to the table. I asked him why doesn't he buy a "real" cue and he laughed and said I learned on house cues and play with house cues and meant it. Ginky was the best player I ever played against who used maple shafts, his shaft cracked at the ferrule and had electrical tape holding it together, he beat me 7-0, (RIP champ). I was so impressed I was happy to lose.
 
Mike Sigel, he {reportedly} says he was mis quoted and just wasn't "concerned"

JoeyA said:
I would say that SOME top players have no clue what deflection is. Lol, but I hear ya. One our BEST players says there is no such thing as deflection.:p
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I don't think it's possible to play at a high level without knowing what deflection is. I knew about it when I was very young as something to use, not to fear, in playing better, especially in making really thin cut shots. If you don't know how to, at least use deflection to cut balls super thin you are, indeed at a disadvantage. Playing one foul it may not show up, but in ROLL OUT you had to be able to "slice" the ball.

If "one of our best players" is Mike Sigel, he {reportedly} says he was mis quoted and just wasn't "concerned with deflection," his main concern was the object ball skidding. He told me that's the only time he ever missed was when the object ball "turned over," in what most people call a skid.

Sometimes people are misquoted or taken out of context and it leads to "urban legends," like alligators in the New York sewer systems There's always some truth in there, but usually the true story is much different than the "legend". 'The Truth is the Teacher'
 
Mitchxout said:
I'm pretty sure Alex Pagulyan plays with a Predator shaft. It doesn't really matter, though. I remember when most of the top pros played with Meucci.
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Hidy Ho said:
Alex is now sponsored by OB Cues ..
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I'm pretty sure Alex used to play with a Predator shaft on his Schon, but also used a Mezz fairly often, too. Last I saw he was sponsored by OB and was using their sneaky pete model.
 
trinacria said:
this is exactly why I laugh at people who pay thousands for a cue.

Dont get me wrong, I would kill for a scruggs, by far the best cue I ever played with as far as feel, but in the end its all subjective. .
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So, you laugh at folks who spend thousands on a cue, but you yourself would "kill" for a Scruggs. So, you like custom cues also, you just can't afford one, and the folks that can are "funny", ya know, like a clown :confused:
 
I think part of the confusion in this kind of discussion comes from misunderstanding what a LD shaft is. It doesn't have to have come from OB, Predator, or some other company specifically marketing LD shafts--if you're playing with a "standard" shaft and it is 12mm, you are playing with a LD shaft. Even some 13mm shafts are LD because the wood and ferrule are less dense than standard...I know, because I have one. *grin*
 
CJ Wiley said:
I don't think it's possible to play at a high level without knowing what deflection is. I knew about it when I was very young as something to use, not to fear, in playing better, especially in making really thin cut shots. If you don't know how to, at least use deflection to cut balls super thin you are, indeed at a disadvantage. Playing one foul it may not show up, but in ROLL OUT you had to be able to "slice" the ball.

If "one of our best players" is Mike Sigel, he {reportedly} says he was mis quoted and just wasn't "concerned with deflection," his main concern was the object ball skidding. He told me that's the only time he ever missed was when the object ball "turned over," in what most people call a skid.

Sometimes people are misquoted or taken out of context and it leads to "urban legends," like alligators in the New York sewer systems There's always some truth in there, but usually the true story is much different than the "legend". 'The Truth is the Teacher'
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When I said one of our best players didn't believe there was such a thing as cue ball deflection I was talking about one of Buffalo Billiard's best players not Mike Sigel, fwiw.
 
Bob Callahan said:
I think part of the confusion in this kind of discussion comes from misunderstanding what a LD shaft is. It doesn't have to have come from OB, Predator, or some other company specifically marketing LD shafts--if you're playing with a "standard" shaft and it is 12mm, you are playing with a LD shaft. Even some 13mm shafts are LD because the wood and ferrule are less dense than standard...I know, because I have one. *grin*
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Maple shafts that have low end mass can be considered an LD shaft and I would consider most 12 MM standard maple shafts LD as well. Maybe not as LD as some other engineered shafts but LD nevertheless.
 
You know I'm right when Joey agrees with me. Because I think he should be in the Hall of Fame...not because he's a great commentator--which he is. Not because he plays a great game--which he does. But because he has done something no one in the history of pool has ever done.

Not Efren, Earl, or Shane.

He put the bite on Cliff Joyner. That's like beating a doped Lance with your tricycle.

QED
 
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JoeyA said:
Maple shafts that have low end mass can be considered an LD shaft and I would consider most 12 MM standard maple shafts LD as well. Maybe not as LD as some other engineered shafts but LD nevertheless.
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Really? All this time I thought I was old school playing with an 11.5mm straight grain maple conical taper shaft? That's LD? It throws big curve balls.
Snooker players play 9-10mm shafts. Whom I consider the best cue artist in the world. And ash plays pretty much like maple doesn't it? So you are saying there are "natural" LD shafts? These Laminated shaft manufacturers don't want to hear that do they?

I'm really pissed off now...I thought I was playing old school all this time.:wink:
 
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Come on JoeyA. U seem to be drying up like a late summer cricket? I guess you are the resident "shaft" master...it seems? Explain taper, tip size and ash vs maple and how that applies vs "Engineered" LD shafts..

Please...Inquiring minds want to know?
 
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