Racking location of "spot ball" in rack getting weight playing rack your own

[maxeypad2007]

Racking location of "spot ball" in rack getting weight playing rack your own

I've heard a few different takes on this.

The answer obviously varies according to who is getting and giving the weight so I wanted to ask.

Playing 9-ball and getting the wild 8 playing rack your own what position should the 8-ball be put at in the rack?

My take is under these specific rules its up to the breaker since they are racking their own rack. I was in a game like this recently where a pretty strong player spotted me the 7 and 8 this way playing on a barbox.

After I won my first game I put the 8-ball at the wing location and he complained. We didn't decide on this before the match started. I ended up winning largely because of this...how do we say oversight...on his part. I ended up making the 8-ball probably 4 times in the race to seven off the break.

So if nobody says anything before you start and you are playing rack your own is it up to the person racking to decide where the balls go?

When the guy giving the weight was breaking he was putting the 1, 2, 3 and 5 up front with the 4 ball at the end of the rack and the 8-ball at the wing so he could make it on his break.

 

[TSW]

Whenever I've played 9-ball with a ball spot, the handicap ball comes back up if it is made on the break.

That said, unless otherwise stipulated, it is an acceptable strategy to rack the handicap ball in the wing location in hopes that it will come to rest near the corner pocket for an easy combo.

 

[Baxter]

I've always played that they go behind the head ball. Everyone I've ever played with weight, it was just a given. Kinda like an unwritten rule. I usually play even though.

 

[Black-Balled]

Whenever I've played 9-ball with a ball spot, the handicap ball comes back up if it is made on the break.

That said, unless otherwise stipulated, it is an acceptable strategy to rack the handicap ball in the wing location in hopes that it will come to rest near the corner pocket for an easy combo.

The spot ball should be treated the same as the 9 if I am getting spotted.
If I am giving spot, it should be treated like the 1-8:wink:

The matter of how to treat it should be discussed prior to game start.

There is ofthen disagreement about what should happen to the spot ball when it is made on a foul.

The spot ball should be treated the same as the 9 if I am getting spotted.
If I am giving spot, it should be treated like the 1-8:wink:

 

[VIProfessor]

The way I learned in the NYC action rooms was that if the person giving the spot makes a spot ball on the break it comes up on the spot after his/her inning is over. If the person getting the spot makes the spot ball on the break it comes up immediately. That eliminates many aspects (but not all) of racking spot balls in a particular place to gain an advantage for one player or the other.

If you're giving or getting 'em wild off the break then you're on your own unless you and your opponent have come to some agreement beforehand.

 

[tank69]

Personally, what you were doing was nothing more than a slime bag move. It's common sense, whether racking yourself or not, to put your spot balls in a location where they won't go on the break. You were getting the 7 & 8 ball, if you can't win with that spot, you need more weight or need to hit the practice table. Your racking the spot ball in the wing position tells me you don't have a strong game and will take a win no matter how it comes, not to mention what it says about your character. So yes, you didn't discuss spotting those balls where in the rack at the beginning of the game, you took advantage of it and I'm sure the person you were playing never would have imagined that was going to happen. For him to go with it, I respect him. You, not so much. However, thanks for letting me know there is on more "dirtbag move" I have to be aware of now as I thought I had seen them all.

 

[smoooothstroke]

If its not agreed upon before the match then the racker puts the balls in any order he wants.

 

[TSW]

The matter of how to treat it should be discussed prior to game start.

Agreed - best thing to do is agree to all of these possibilities before starting.

I don't think I've ever played rack-your-own with a money ball. When racking for my opponent, I'd always put the money ball in the second row, behind the 1.

 

[PGHteacher]

Playing 9-ball and getting the wild 8 playing rack your own what position should the 8-ball be put at in the rack?

refer to the rules.

2. RACKING THE BALLS. The object balls are racked in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the top of the diamond and on the foot spot, the nine ball in the center of the diamond, and the other balls in random order, racked as tightly as possible. the game begins with cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Racker decides

My take is under these specific rules its up to the breaker since they are racking their own rack.

yup

I was in a game like this recently where a pretty strong player spotted me the 7 and 8 this way playing on a barbox.


After I won my first game I put the 8-ball at the wing location and he complained.

typical a$$____

We didn't decide on this before the match started. I ended up winning largely because of this...how do we say oversight...on his part. I ended up making the 8-ball probably 4 times in the race to seven off the break.

Excellent

So if nobody says anything before you start and you are playing rack your own is it up to the person racking to decide where the balls go?

Yes

When the guy giving the weight was breaking he was putting the 1, 2, 3 and 5 up front with the 4 ball at the end of the rack and the 8-ball at the wing so he could make it on his break.

Cool

You will always get these dick___s; play by his “racking rules” if you want next match and give him a chance at his $ back, tomorrow is another day.

 

[Black-Balled]

refer to the rules.

2. RACKING THE BALLS. The object balls are racked in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the top of the diamond and on the foot spot, the nine ball in the center of the diamond, and the other balls in random order, racked as tightly as possible. the game begins with cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Racker decides



yup



typical a$$____



Excellent



Yes




Cool

You will always get these dick___s; play by his “racking rules” if you want next match and give him a chance at his $ back, tomorrow is another day.

I think you are applying rules to situations that the rulemakers did not consider...handicapped matches.

There could be some serious issues if the guy gettin the spot makes the spot ball 4/7 racks. like punching issues.

While I would like to say it is within one's rights to twist any grey area to his advantage, reality says that is not a good idea. Best result would be that the spotter/ loser becomes a lost customer.

 

[TSW]

refer to the rules.

2. RACKING THE BALLS. The object balls are racked in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the top of the diamond and on the foot spot, the nine ball in the center of the diamond, and the other balls in random order, racked as tightly as possible. the game begins with cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Racker decides

Wait a minute. "Random" doesn't mean "racker decides the order." Random means random.

When I am racking without any handicap balls, I rack randomly. I only pay attention to the order of the balls when there is a handicap ball, in order to avoid the situation described in the original post.

 

[Black-Balled]

Personally, what you were doing was nothing more than a slime bag move. It's common sense, whether racking yourself or not, to put your spot balls in a location where they won't go on the break. You were getting the 7 & 8 ball, if you can't win with that spot, you need more weight or need to hit the practice table. Your racking the spot ball in the wing position tells me you don't have a strong game and will take a win no matter how it comes, not to mention what it says about your character. So yes, you didn't discuss spotting those balls where in the rack at the beginning of the game, you took advantage of it and I'm sure the person you were playing never would have imagined that was going to happen. For him to go with it, I respect him. You, not so much. However, thanks for letting me know there is on more "dirtbag move" I have to be aware of now as I thought I had seen them all.

Relax...you don't need to fly off the handle and insult the guy. He didn't know, thought he was triple slick and then, looking back he realizes it was questionable.

 

[Black-Balled]

Hallo all... I am Kalki Sandhu...!!!

zip it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OUSooner]

If the guy is getting the 7,8 in rack your own then he is the customer and probably needs the ball on the break to get there. A lot of times guys will stipulate that the wild balls need to be called on the break but if this wasn't discussed beforehand then you're free to do as you wish. I can't believe he gave you two wild balls in rack your own. I guarantee you one thing. If he would have won that way there wouldn't have been any complaints.

 

[PGHteacher]

I think you are applying rules to situations that the rulemakers did not consider...handicapped matches.

I considered them, in handicapped matches are there designated positions for balls other than the 1 and 9?

There could be some serious issues if the guy gettin the spot makes the spot ball 4/7 racks. like punching issues.

I know, I never get into $ games with weight with people I don’t know.

While I would like to say it is within one's rights to twist any grey area to his advantage, reality says that is not a good idea. Best result would be that the spotter/ loser becomes a lost customer.

I think he is a lost customer no matter what, do you think that the guy giving the spot lost because the spotee outmanipulated the rack on him? Show me the video of that one! Sorry been around pro pool, great pool, good pool, mediocre pool and bad pool and I have never seen anyone “outrack” an opponent over a race; a game maybe, but not a race I could be wrong and if I am I say ok you’re right. I am willing to concede that point if proven wrong.

Because:

When the guy giving the weight was breaking he was putting the 1, 2, 3 and 5 up front with the 4 ball at the end of the rack and the 8-ball at the wing so he could make it on his break.

It sounds to me (given the flavor of the whole thing) that the tiger was confused, he thought he was dealing with a kitten instead of an ally cat; that’s IMHO a grave miscalculation. I did say:

if you want next match and give him a chance at his $ back, tomorrow is another day.

But I don’t think he would, I would suggest to the OP that he give that world beater another chance AND for double.

 

[seven_7days]

Personally, what you were doing was nothing more than a slime bag move. It's common sense, whether racking yourself or not, to put your spot balls in a location where they won't go on the break. You were getting the 7 & 8 ball, if you can't win with that spot, you need more weight or need to hit the practice table. Your racking the spot ball in the wing position tells me you don't have a strong game and will take a win no matter how it comes, not to mention what it says about your character. So yes, you didn't discuss spotting those balls where in the rack at the beginning of the game, you took advantage of it and I'm sure the person you were playing never would have imagined that was going to happen. For him to go with it, I respect him. You, not so much. However, thanks for letting me know there is on more "dirtbag move" I have to be aware of now as I thought I had seen them all.

the mere fact that the op posted this thread refutes everything you accused him of.

 

[maxeypad2007]

More than anything here I am trying to get some feedback on this which is exactly what I am getting.

If I was getting the call seven or call eight I would have just put it into the wing position.

This was a major oversight on the part of the guy who I was playing. I think he honestly just assumed that the rack your own part, which he agreed to, would not be that big of a deal to someone he was giving the wild 7/8 to. If you are going to agree on something like this. I know that I personally would have seen this as a rule worth clarifying before you play especially against a decent player (I am decent but not great).

I am not sure I see the big deal. After all when he was breaking he took his time ordering the 1, 2, 3 and 5 in the front with the 4 ball in the kicker position of the rack. He took time to that every ball was in the correct position. On virtually every break he had it ended up with him having an easy runout. Now that I think about it I was using the EXACT same racking order as he was giving himself including the position on the 8-ball (wing position).

I won't go into who the exact player was but lets just say the guy is a VERY strong player that a good number of you would recognize. Regardless of how you feel about the situation this thread has given me exactly what I wanted, opinions on how the balls should be racked when getting weight. The racking location of spot balls is clearly a "gentlemen's rule" and not anything set in stone. I know rulebooks don't cover weight.

If we were not playing rack your own this wouldn't have ever been an issue. The guy clearly did not expect this but did concede that he didn't specify and especially given the caveat of rack your own then it should have been clear. I offered to play him again the same way but he opted out. I also even offered to take the wild seven playing rack your own again with the same rules but he opted out.

Oh and I forgot to mention this was on a barbox.

The moral of the story is, clarify the rules before you play which might include jump cues, how you determine who breaks, "money balls", racking order and who racks. I guarantee this guy would have done anything he could have to win within the confines of the rules.

 

[InTheCloudzzz]

When I play, the non-breaker decides the location of any spot balls each and every rack.

For example: if I'm getting the 7, playing rack your own, when I rack it is my opponent's choice where the 7 goes. He has the option every rack where it goes and can change the location each time depending on how the balls are breaking. This prevents me from placing the spot ball in a position where it is "dead" and can be made 95% of the time (ie wing position using the magic rack).

 

[DallasHopps]

My understanding has been that rack your own just does away with the pissing match that ensues over whether the rack is tight, tilted, etc. If I'm racking as a convenience, and my opponent would otherwise be racking, he gets to tell me where he'd rack the spot balls and I comply. The same is true with him racking.
That's what I've seen. I still cover that and all the normal rule variations just so I'm not counting on an "understood" rule.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I've always played that they go behind the head ball. Everyone I've ever played with weight, it was just a given. Kinda like an unwritten rule. I usually play even though.

It was the unwritten rule in the area where I developed into a pool player if it counted on the snap. But obviously since it isn't an actual rule it should be discussed if they are going to count on the break.