Racks?

Wink

Wink

14.1 Wannabe
Silver Member
I have a Diamond Pro Rack, and I love the little line in the back of the rack so that I can make sure it is squared up correctly. I have a regular rack,

However, I saw mention of the Delta13 racks providing a smaller footprint, which would be nice for 14.1. However, I have read that they are loud, and that someone makes a leather "silencer" for the Delta rack. Anyone know where I might be able to get the rack with silencer?

Is anyone familiar with MasterRack? http://masterrack.com/

Any thoughts or ideas?
 
Wize Choice to go with the Delta Rack, There is no substitute !!!

But i am unsure where to get one with the inserts, i just checked there site and a few other vendors and none of them had them.

Maybe you can post up in the Wanted/For sale section to see if anyone has them. i remember a few months back someone was selling a bunch of them.

-Steve
 
A rack tapped with a template has the smallest footprint (zero), gives the best rack, is the quietest and the fastest.
 
Wink said:
Thanks guys, I'll try to find out where Sean got his silenced racks.
Click to expand...

Hey guys! I'm here. 5 minute break at work, so I just saw this thread and these posts.

Dennis is correct, I have two Delta-13 Elites, both having the noise suppressors. (Steve K. -- the reason I have two, is one for my home table, the other is in a carry case that I use for league.)

As pointed out, the Delta-13 has the slimmest profile of any standard triangular rack. It's only 3/16-inch thick on the sidewalls. Yes, you can even plan for a break ball only 1/4-inch away from the outermost edge of an object ball in the rack, and you can fit the Delta-13 in there.

Noisy? If you use the Delta-13 as shipped (straight out of the box), yes. It's either cast aluminum (Delta-13 "regular edition") or precision CNC-milled aluminum (Delta-13 Elite), so it's metal -- it "clangs" and "tings" when balls are moved around in it.

But Executive Billiards (the company that makes the Delta-13 products) also has the noise suppressors available:

http://www.delta-13.com/products/Leather-Inserts-Set.html
Delta_Inserts_with_racks__45485_zoom.png

They're essentially tongue-depressor-shaped pieces of high quality leather with double-sided tape, that you peel and stick into the machined-out recesses on all three sides of the rack. Like the Delta-13 itself, you can have these monogrammed (and I have).

You may think "feh, what in the h*ck can a piece of leather do to prevent that clanging?" Here's a video that demonstrates the effectiveness of these leather inserts:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bZqA5MZRLhQ

(These inserts shown in this video are made by a different vendor, but the effect is the same.)

Pretty dramatic reduction in noise!

Wink said:
I have a Diamond Pro Rack, and I love the little line in the back of the rack so that I can make sure it is squared up correctly. I have a regular rack,

However, I saw mention of the Delta13 racks providing a smaller footprint, which would be nice for 14.1. However, I have read that they are loud, and that someone makes a leather "silencer" for the Delta rack. Anyone know where I might be able to get the rack with silencer?

Is anyone familiar with MasterRack? http://masterrack.com/

Any thoughts or ideas?
Click to expand...

Wink: yep, I do have a MasterRack as well that I purchased 3 years ago (when the product first came out, actually), and although a neat idea, it's more suited to 8-ball than 14.1. Reason: the sidewalls on the MasterRack are extremely thick to fit the mechanical presser arms (that press/squash the balls inwards into each other), so you're looking at sidewalls over 1.5-inch thick, not including the extra clearance that the internal presser arms need to push the balls inward! (If you include that, you're looking at 2 full inches of clearance from the outermost edges of the racked balls, to the outermost edge of the MasterRack.) As mentioned on the MasterRack.com website, it's really designed for 8-ball. What you *can* get from MasterRack that is very useful, however, is their carry case, which I personally use to carry one of my Delta-13 Elites in my traveling league:

http://masterrack.com/products.html (the carry case is on the right-hand side of that website's page)

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
 
Last edited:
Sean,

GREAT info! Ok, so MasterRack is out. Delta is in!

Here is the link for the other Inserts for Delta from an AZB guy (John Leitch): http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=163396

Although these are $45 and the ones from Delta are $25.

Thanks a ton! Putting Delta on the Christmas list.
Now I just have to determine if it is worth the difference to get the Elite. Comparison chart http://www.delta-13.com/pages/Compare-Racks.html says that the 13 rack has the Center Alignment marks, which I would prefer. that is one of my favorite things about my Diamond rack.


So, Elite 13? or Regular 13?
 
Well, I just got off the phone with Terry, President of Executive Billiards, and what an EXCELLENT gentleman he is!

He was very helpful and we had a great conversation about the racks, the differences, and a little about his business.

For me, I will be getting the Regular 13 for now, with the inserts. if I get into a league, I will definitely get the Elite.

I am really excited about trying out this rack, not just for 14.1, but for other games as well.

Thanks again to you all. Sounds like a GREAT product, thanks for the recommendation!

I also encouraged Terry to drop by the 14.1 forum here and join in at some point.
 
I have the regular Delta. Without question it is the best triangle out there. There is a significant difference in cost between the Delta and the Delta Elite. I've yet heard of sufficient reasons to justify the higher price, for me anyway. If the regular Delta didn't rack the balls as good, I could see it, but that's not the case as far as I know.
 
Difference in features between the regular Delta-13 and the Delta-13 Elite

DogsPlayingPool said:
I have the regular Delta. Without question it is the best triangle out there. There is a significant difference in cost between the Delta and the Delta Elite. I've yet heard of sufficient reasons to justify the higher price, for me anyway. If the regular Delta didn't rack the balls as good, I could see it, but that's not the case as far as I know.
Click to expand...

Hi folks!

Another 5 minute break at work. Ok, to try to answer the question about the difference between the Delta-13 and the Delta-13 Elite:

  • The Delta-13 is cast aluminum -- meaning, molten aluminum is poured into a cast to make this rack. Obviously, when you deal with molten metals being poured into a cast, you can't really guarantee accuracy, as the heating/cooling causes expansion and contraction inside the mold. As such, Executive Billiards only checks a sample out of each "run" of Delta-13s they make, to make sure the "run" isn't obviously off by a critical margin.
  • The Delta-13 Elite, on the other hand, is CNC-milled aluminum, and assembled. The difference in this manufacturing method is that you actually can guarantee accuracy, because first you have a computer-numerical-controlled (CNC) milling machine "going to town" on an aluminum billet, accurate to thousandths of an inch. Second, after the assembly of the six pieces, it is then measured by a coordinate measuring machine (CMM) that is also accurate to thousandths of an inch. Minor adjustments are made with the machine screws, and then ThreadLocked into place. When you get your Delta-13 Elite, Executive Billiards puts into the box the very certification sheet from the CMM to show you that your rack was measured and certified to be accurate down to a thousandth of an inch -- in dimensions, straightness of the sidewalls, and guarantee that each angle of the triangle is exactly 60 degrees.
The Delta-13 Elite is also the ONLY rack that, with the Aramith Super Pro or Tournament ball set, is GUARANTEED to have every ball touching. If for some reason they don't, either Executive Billiards will replace your rack, or Aramith will replace your set of balls, at no cost to you. The two companies are very tight, relationship-wise, and support each other's products. But that guarantee only applies to the Delta-13 Elite, *NOT* the Delta-13! Now, does that mean you can't get a tight rack of balls with the Delta-13? No. Even the Delta-13 is better than any wood or plastic rack on the market. It's just that there's a standing guarantee with the Delta-13 Elite.

Also, as far as I know, only the Delta-13 Elite can be monogrammed with laser etching right into the aluminum itself (free of charge, I might add). But if you use the noise suppressors offered by Executive Billiards, it's almost a moot issue because you can have the noise suppressors for the regular Delta-13 monogrammed. I say "almost a moot issue" because, you'll remember that the noise suppressors have double-stick tape, and they can be removed from the Delta-13. So if your Delta-13 rack is stolen, all someone has to do is remove and throw away the noise suppressors, and you have no proof the rack is yours. The Delta-13 Elite, on the other hand, can itself be laser etched with your monogram (again, free of charge), so even if the thief removes your noise suppressors from it, he/she will be unpleasantly surprised to see that the rack itself is also laser etched. And, that rack's serial number is also registered to YOU in Executive Billiards' systems.

So for me, these added features of the Delta-13 Elite justified the cost. That's why I have almost no worries offering to lend my two Delta-13 Elites to the 14.1 Challenge. Any thief thinking that merely removing the monogrammed noise suppressors is going to remove proof that the racks are mine is going to have a nasty surprise...

All in all, though, you can't go wrong with either product.

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
 
Last edited:
Wink said:
Well, I just got off the phone with Terry, President of Executive Billiards, and what an EXCELLENT gentleman he is!

He was very helpful and we had a great conversation about the racks, the differences, and a little about his business.

For me, I will be getting the Regular 13 for now, with the inserts. if I get into a league, I will definitely get the Elite.

I am really excited about trying out this rack, not just for 14.1, but for other games as well.

Thanks again to you all. Sounds like a GREAT product, thanks for the recommendation!

I also encouraged Terry to drop by the 14.1 forum here and join in at some point.
Click to expand...

Wink:

You made a good decision -- you'll look back on it knowingly. And you're right -- if you're only going to be using the rack at home, the Delta-13 with noise suppressors is just fine. When you get to the point where you want to take the rack out with you (e.g. league), you'll definitely want the added security of the Elite version. And you'll also want a good protective carry case with strap, such as the one offered on MasterRack's website. One step at a time, though, right?

-Sean

P.S.: Terry's a great guy! I spoke with him at length when I first bought my Delta-13 Elites. (I was convinced right at the outset before I even made the call that the idea of CNC-milling an accurate rack was a good one.) This was before the Delta-13 products started to get well known. When we both discovered we had mutual high-tech backgrounds, obviously a great conversation ensued right there on the phone, talking about CAD, CNC, CMM, military backgrounds, etc. Then, two years later, I called again to order the noise suppressors, when I got word that Executive Billiards started to offer them. Lo and behold, guess who answers the phone? Yep, and he remembered me right away, even though we hadn't spoke in two years!
 
Sean, I understand the differences in the manufacturing methods and features of the Regular vs. Elite models. The engraving capabilities of the Elite adds no value to me unless I was giving it as a gift. As far as the accuracy guarantee goes, yes, I know the Elite is made to tighter guaranteed tolerances. And if I bought a regular Delta and it was not capable of giving me a tight rack with all balls touching I would have exchanged it for the Elite model. But since my regular Delta does give me a perfect rack, I really have no need to spend the extra money. After all, we are not talking $5 - $10 here.

One advantage of the Elite that you didn't mention I suppose could come in to play eventually. That is that the regular model is powder coated. I suppose over time if the powder coating wears away it could alter the measurements enough to cause racking issues. But I've had mine now for a while with no signs of wear and certainly no decline in its ability to give me a good rack so I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it. :wink:
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Sean, I understand the differences in the manufacturing methods and features of the Regular vs. Elite models. The engraving capabilities of the Elite adds no value to me unless I was giving it as a gift. As far as the accuracy guarantee goes, yes, I know the Elite is made to tighter guaranteed tolerances. And if I bought a regular Delta and it was not capable of giving me a tight rack with all balls touching I would have exchanged it for the Elite model. But since my regular Delta does give me a perfect rack, I really have no need to spend the extra money. After all, we are not talking $5 - $10 here.

One advantage of the Elite that you didn't mention I suppose could come in to play eventually. That is that the regular model is powder coated. I suppose over time if the powder coating wears away it could alter the measurements enough to cause racking issues. But I've had mine now for a while with no signs of wear and certainly no decline in its ability to give me a good rack so I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it. :wink:
Click to expand...

Dogs:

I hope I didn't mean to come across as "slamming" your decision. It certainly wasn't my intent. All I wanted to do was clarify what the differences between the two models were, since noone else did so. And folks should know the differences, right? BTW, I don't know if you've checked prices lately, but the cost of the Elite has dropped significantly since its introduction. (It's dropped $75 since the time I bought it -- which stings, to me, but hey, I've had mine for two years.)

And you're right -- I failed to mention the powder coating on the Delta-13, vs. the anodizing of the Delta-13 Elite. It can indeed flake or be chipped. Anodizing doesn't, and can't. (For those that don't know, powder coating is essentially very thick and tough paint. Anodizing is essentially electrically-staining the metal itself.) I'd be concerned taking the Delta-13 out of the house and letting other people use it (*especially* those that can't appreciate the quality of a fine instrument like the Delta-13 products, and let their "I just lost the previous rack and I'm p!ssed" emotions fly when racking, slamming balls into it, etc.)

Anyway, please don't misunderstand me -- I'm not berating or belittling your decision at all. I just think that folks should be informed -- what they do with the information is entirely up to them.

The net-net of all this? You've made a great decision, either way.

-Sean
 
Delta-13 Regular vs. Elite

Hello,

I thought I would chime into the discussion relative to the Delta-13 rack
difference. Just to clarify the powder coating, the Regular Delta-13 is now
powder coated in Denver, Colorado. This is a recent change which allowed
us to use a "chip resistant" "high gloss" paint. We now have a rack that is
as durable as your car paint.

We randomly measure the Regular Delta-13's, about 10%, on our CMM, to ensure we are within our rigid specifications. Now that being said, its very possible that the powder coat is .0001 or so outside our specs. Powder coating is more of an art than a science, but it still gives a consistent rack that will consistently outperform racks made of other materials.

We measure every Elite on the CMM and provide the measurements with each rack. Now, the benefit of that is this rack will identify undersized balls, which allows the player to move the balls to the back of the rack for
a better break.

Hope this helps some.

Merry Christmas! :thumbup:
 
sfleinen said:
Dogs:

I hope I didn't mean to come across as "slamming" your decision. It certainly wasn't my intent. All I wanted to do was clarify what the differences between the two models were, since noone else did so. And folks should know the differences, right? BTW, I don't know if you've checked prices lately, but the cost of the Elite has dropped significantly since its introduction. (It's dropped $75 since the time I bought it -- which stings, to me, but hey, I've had mine for two years.)

And you're right -- I failed to mention the powder coating on the Delta-13, vs. the anodizing of the Delta-13 Elite. It can indeed flake or be chipped. Anodizing doesn't, and can't. (For those that don't know, powder coating is essentially very thick and tough paint. Anodizing is essentially electrically-staining the metal itself.) I'd be concerned taking the Delta-13 out of the house and letting other people use it (*especially* those that can't appreciate the quality of a fine instrument like the Delta-13 products, and let their "I just lost the previous rack and I'm p!ssed" emotions fly when racking, slamming balls into it, etc.)

Anyway, please don't misunderstand me -- I'm not berating or belittling your decision at all. I just think that folks should be informed -- what they do with the information is entirely up to them.

The net-net of all this? You've made a great decision, either way.

-Sean
Click to expand...

No prob, Sean, we're just having a good discussion here. I didn't take your post in any negative way at all.
 
Delta-13Rack said:
Hello,

I thought I would chime into the discussion relative to the Delta-13 rack
difference. Just to clarify the powder coating, the Regular Delta-13 is now
powder coated in Denver, Colorado. This is a recent change which allowed
us to use a "chip resistant" "high gloss" paint. We now have a rack that is
as durable as your car paint.

We randomly measure the Regular Delta-13's, about 10%, on our CMM, to ensure we are within our rigid specifications. Now that being said, its very possible that the powder coat is .0001 or so outside our specs. Powder coating is more of an art than a science, but it still gives a consistent rack that will consistently outperform racks made of other materials.

We measure every Elite on the CMM and provide the measurements with each rack. Now, the benefit of that is this rack will identify undersized balls, which allows the player to move the balls to the back of the rack for
a better break.

Hope this helps some.

Merry Christmas! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks for hopping in Terry.

The more I think about it, the more I want the black Elite with inserts.... :)
 
Thanks to Steve, I have a black Delta Elite on order with inserts.

Looking forward to receiving it this week. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top