raffle thread???

It has less to do with the paying of state taxes.....and more to do with the fact that a public forum is hosting an active venue for unlicensed (and therefore illegal) gambling.

The Napster example that was provided a few posts up set the precedent that the host can be made responsible for the actions of others.

If we were to continue with "raffle" type transactions, here are a couple of suggestions:

1) Don't call it "raffle". This is one of the key words that the gaming commission uses to scour the Internet for illegal raffles.

2) Call it a "group purchase" of the said cue, with the exclusive rights and ultimate ownership of the said cue to be determined by some undisclosed method by the group of purchasers.

That should be good enough to avoid any action by any authority....or at least make it real tough for them to prove that there was ever a raffle.

Just my 2 cents.

Donald
 
In Russia, cue raffle YOU! How about moving the forum host to another country where we can run under their laws? Some things are a bit out of hand. After all it's OUR country, not the polititians. I think we forget that at times.

My state is not only raising tolls on all the roads every year that are already paid for, they are also forcing towns to start charging for taking my kids to school, picking up the trash, pretty soon I'll have a "door use fee" each time I come home. It's enough to become an Anarchist. I think the raffles are a neat idea, as long as they are done right. Who's to say who picks the numbers does not already have an agreement with someone?
 
fssgolf said:
It's also illegal to sell something without paying your states sales tax. I am a collector not a dealer but, I would be willing to bet less then 10% of the cues sold online have sales taxes paid. I don't see the negative response to a different form of selling cues.
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Unfortunately, you are not correct on the sales tax issue. The seller is not liable fr paying state sales taxes for all interstate sales. The buyer is responsible to pay what is accumulated as a sales tax on property purchased from out of state if and only if their state of residence has tax laws requiring they declare their out of state purchases or internet purchases in which no sales tax was paid to a taxing authority. Sllers never pay sales taxes, they just collect them for the state when required. The only sellers that have to collect sales taxes are sellers that have a retail location in the state they are shipping too. Hence when you purchase online from many online buisineses like Penney's or Cabella's or Walmart, they have to collect sales tax for your state if they have a retail sales tax license in that state.

Many states have not enacted the purchase tax for online out of state purchases, but I know Idaho and West Virginia definitely have them. I worked for as a contractor supporting their tex software. they have a special place on the individual income tax forms to calculate your out of state purchases and pay them 7%. I know, I had to claim and pay it.

As to the raffles, I was one if not the first person to point out they are illegal in all states as a minor form of gambling unless licensed with proceeds going to a registered charity. They are not necessarily felonies in most cases though. My concern was it getting out of hand and AZBilliards not performing due care to stop it. That could get them in trouble. Turning a blind eye is not a defense in a court of law. Personally I don't think it would be on the state prosecutors priority list to prosecute. At most a letter of warning. The worst part is they could possibly get hit by numerous court actions in succession from different states if someone got ticked for some reason and raised a major stink about it. Just my opinion.
 
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So whats the worst thing that could happen? You think The Admins and Site owners are gonna get hammered for letting this happen? Highly Doubt it. Whoever OWNS the sever that hosts this site is on the line, not the admins. As far as they are concerned this generates activity. Worst that can happen is that the site gets shut down and has to move to a different server. Its a pain in the ass for whoever has to do it, but until that envelope is sealed, screw it, let 'em raffle.
 
our_auctionguy said:
As to the raffles, I was one if not the first person to point out they are illegal in all states as a minor form of gambling unless licensed with proceeds going to a registered charity. They are not necessarily felonies in most cases though. My concern was it getting out of hand and AZBilliards not performing due care to stop it. That could get them in trouble. Turning a blind eye is not a defense in a court of law. Personally I don't think it would be on the state prosecutors priority list to prosecute. At most a letter of warning. The worst part is they could possibly get hit by numerous court actions in succession from different states if someone got ticked for some reason and raised a major stink about it. Just my opinion.
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Exactly...................:)
 
Wow

now almost every cue in wanted/forsale thread that are not moving is in raffle.


I think the moderators of AZ need to take a moment and find a way to control this situation. Otherwise, this AZB is going to be UGLY!!!



I dont have anything against it!! In fact I love it! Because some sellers are giving small income people a CHANCE to own a really nice cue for a small amount of money at risk but PLEASE lets stop raffle for a moment here!

at least allow those first raffle to finish.


this section will soon be called RAFFLEBAY if we dont get a grip of our selves!!!
 
The sales tax issue has nothing to do with th raffle issue. The interstate commerce laws allow interstate sales without taxation unless the seller has a large presence in your state. Many items are sold online without charging sales tax, and it is perfectly legal. I know nothing about the raffle laws but this isn't a totally public forum, in fact it is privately owned and I doubt the government cares if a few people are selling 20-dollar chances on a pool cue. If the raffle was for a car, then you would have to pay use-tax anyway just to get it licensed, but that still has nothing to do with the federal government, just state use tax laws.

Since there are a lot of raffles popping up it would be nice to see a separate section for them, but I think the whole thing has been fun, and a nice change from seeing a cue for sale being "bumped" 42 times, and the price lowered over and over, which is sometimes painful to watch...JMO
 
you are the man!!

*****Since there are a lot of raffles popping up it would be nice to see a separate section for them, but I think the whole thing has been fun, and a nice change from seeing a cue for sale being "bumped" 42 times, and the price lowered over and over, which is sometimes painful to watch...JMO



I totally agree!!!
 
That is correct about items being shipped out of state. The state can require you to show proof that the items were in fact mailed. There have been cases that the State has challenged shipments when Insurance was not taken out on higher priced items. They claimed empty boxes were shipped to avoid Sales Tax. Next point is you are also required to pay capital gains on your items sold. How many of us do that? The point I was trying to make was, if pressed Government can find most of the transactions made here are technically illegal. Whether it is not paying sales taxes, capital gains, or raffles. Those opposed to the raffles are trying scare tactics about certain laws. I was pointing out that many of us are breaking the letter of the law as well if you look close enough. I highly doubt AZ will be busted before E-Bay is.
 
If there is any change I would simply make a Sticky "Group Purchase" thread. I have a hard time thinking that the authorities will ever get involved with items worth a few hundred dollards. They'd spend a boatload just investigating. It's the over 1,2,3k + items that are more of a flag IMO. 19 chances at $10 seems safely under the radar to me. Cues are moving that mostly likely wouldn't, bottom line
 
People on here bet on pool matches anytime they get a chance,alot of us are gamblers by nature and our association with this game.If people want to put some money on a chance to get a nice cue,good luck to them,I personally havent took part but dont see anything wrong with it,people are just too nitty on here and need to start getting out more and taking easy,its not a big deal and no one will be prosecuted for this bs raffling when thousands are being bet on these pool matches on here. :rolleyes:
 
Please

Lets Stop Making Thread Like This!! Its None Sence Discussing The Same Topic With Multiple Thread. We All Get The Idea And The Answers To Our Questions. Another Thread Is Just Not Necessary!!

This Is Ridiculous!!!


Admin, Please Delete All This None Sence And Lets Leave These People Who's Doing The Raffle Alone.


***give The Small Income People A privilage to own A Nice Cue!!

***they Know The Risk Of Doing This Even Though Its Illegal and its their a$$ on the line not yours

***people Who Participated With The Raffle Or Auction Understand The Risk Of This Transaction

***its Sellers Discretion. Lets Leave It To Them since nobody want to buy the Item at least this way it will move or sell

***to Those Who Participated, Lets Give Them Their Freedom To Do What They Want its their money

***No Need for any of us To Discourage Who Wants To Participate To What Is Mention In This Thread (either its an auction or a raffle)


Lets Leave Them Alone. Period!!:(
 
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Mycustomcues

Well said my brother. I hope the haters will give it a rest
 
o2bacs said:
Well said my brother. I hope the haters will give it a rest
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Yeah I truly dont understand what the fuss is about,its not like anyone is getting ripped off here,people are being given a cheap shot at getting something nice,they do this at pool halls at alot of events.

Blanktshirt2-1.jpg
 
US here

we just wanted to have this separated so it dont affect anybody who dont want get involve with this kind of transaction.

Besides, raffle and auction is fun!

:D ;)
 
Completely agree...

...and I know it is getting redundant so I won't be commenting on raffles again so here it is. A "Sticky Group Purchase" thread. Whalla :) Group purchase on my brothers lol
 
8-Baller said:
It has less to do with the paying of state taxes.....and more to do with the fact that a public forum is hosting an active venue for unlicensed (and therefore illegal) gambling.

The Napster example that was provided a few posts up set the precedent that the host can be made responsible for the actions of others.

If we were to continue with "raffle" type transactions, here are a couple of suggestions:

1) Don't call it "raffle". This is one of the key words that the gaming commission uses to scour the Internet for illegal raffles.

2) Call it a "group purchase" of the said cue, with the exclusive rights and ultimate ownership of the said cue to be determined by some undisclosed method by the group of purchasers.

That should be good enough to avoid any action by any authority....or at least make it real tough for them to prove that there was ever a raffle.

Just my 2 cents.

Donald
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I agree with the fact that AZB needs to find a way to put these raffle listings to a stop. However, would you pay any money to someone who has listed a cue but doesn't has to disclose how they decide who takes ownership? Not me. The raffles are already a pretty easy form of sale to rig, but in this format, There's NO way to guarantee that it's being run fairly. You've got a good idea, but in my opinion a bad way to implement it.
 
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