Rag Micarta (vintage)

[jdempsey]

Are you guys familiar with this material? Has it ever been used on cues?


A couple of decades ago in the knife making world, a guy was floating around and has a bunch of this stuff for sale, back then it was considered junk and nobody wanted it, much like the other vintage and more well known phenolics, such as the westinhouse ivory paper micarta.

Fast foward some years, and some guys that bought a few pieces find it floating around in their stash boxes, decide to use it, and suddenly it's a big hit and all but impossible to find.

I actually managed to secure a supply of it a year or so ago, in some colors never previously seen. It's an interesting material, tougher than any of the other phenolics I've used. This stuff was specially made in the 50's and 60's, presumably by westinghouse (but no proof), for some pretty specific industrial applications. The color variations showed up as the components we replaced by subsequent batches. The only thing I've ever broken a bandsaw blade, on my large horizontal (12ftx1"x0.35" blades) which cuts nickel steel day in day out, is this stuff.

Changes colors over time, like all of the old phenolic resin/asbestos stuff does.

All in all, pretty much the rarest of the rare. Here's a photo of a knife I made with just one of the colors (I've got a few). It's dense, and incredibly uniform. This was hand finished to 1500 grit, not buffed, coated, sealed, or anything.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Problem with those is they're flat sheets.
You turn them round, they might tear.
And they will not look consistent .
So many knife makers now make their own micarta from different materials.
They use blue jeans, burlap, etc.

I wish we had as many options as knife handle materials . They have camo G-10, orange G-10, blue G-10 and so on.


We get jack squat and the quality is going down .

 

[meridianblades]

 

[pdcue]

The old Micarta that is so highly prized was not a phenolic resin, and did not contain asbestos.

FWIW - Micarta is a trademark name used by Whestinghouse for its industrial plastics.
So, if it is Micarta, it is Westinghouse, tho GE and others made similar products under different names.

Dale

 

[jdempsey]

The old Micarta that is so highly prized was not a phenolic resin, and did not contain asbestos.

FWIW - Micarta is a trademark name used by Whestinghouse for its industrial plastics.
So, if it is Micarta, it is Westinghouse, tho GE and others made similar products under different names.

Dale

Well I've heard all different stories about the resin make up, and whether it did or didn't contain asbestos, I don't claim to know that it does, I was just saying is smells and works the same as much of the known Westinghouse stuff.

Also, this stuff isn't in sheet, it was produced in spheres. It's actually a pain to cut up because of that, but I take slices and then keep the cores as blocks.

As far as home made "mycarta" as we call it, there's no comparison, the industrially produced stuff is total different in density, uniformity, and strength, due to process and materials.

This is completely uniform and void free. Non directional also, unlike linen and canvas types, not sure how well it would turn, I haven't tried but it saws very cleanly although hell on blades.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Lookok to me

Are you guys familiar with this material? Has it ever been used on cues?


A couple of decades ago in the knife making world, a guy was floating around and has a bunch of this stuff for sale, back then it was considered junk and nobody wanted it, much like the other vintage and more well known phenolics, such as the westinhouse ivory paper micarta.

Fast foward some years, and some guys that bought a few pieces find it floating around in their stash boxes, decide to use it, and suddenly it's a big hit and all but impossible to find.

I actually managed to secure a supply of it a year or so ago, in some colors never previously seen. It's an interesting material, tougher than any of the other phenolics I've used. This stuff was specially made in the 50's and 60's, presumably by westinghouse (but no proof), for some pretty specific industrial applications. The color variations showed up as the components we replaced by subsequent batches. The only thing I've ever broken a bandsaw blade, on my large horizontal (12ftx1"x0.35" blades) which cuts nickel steel day in day out, is this stuff.

Changes colors over time, like all of the old phenolic resin/asbestos stuff does.

All in all, pretty much the rarest of the rare. Here's a photo of a knife I made with just one of the colors (I've got a few). It's dense, and incredibly uniform. This was hand finished to 1500 grit, not buffed, coated, sealed, or anything.

Do you have some for sale ?
I would like to try some as a ferrule ...

 

[pdcue]

Well I've heard all different stories about the resin make up, and whether it did or didn't contain asbestos, I don't claim to know that it does, I was just saying is smells and works the same as much of the known Westinghouse stuff.

Also, this stuff isn't in sheet, it was produced in spheres. It's actually a pain to cut up because of that, but I take slices and then keep the cores as blocks.

As far as home made "mycarta" as we call it, there's no comparison, the industrially produced stuff is total different in density, uniformity, and strength, due to process and materials.

This is completely uniform and void free. Non directional also, unlike linen and canvas types, not sure how well it would turn, I haven't tried but it saws very cleanly although hell on blades.

And now you've heard it from someone who knows what he is talking about.

It sounds like this stuff is similar to the glass reinforced Micartas in hardness.

May be a great material for knife handles, but the last thing I would want for a ferrule.
Might well be good for pins, like G10 is.

Dale

 

[jdempsey]

And now you've heard it from someone who knows what he is talking about.

It sounds like this stuff is similar to the glass reinforced Micartas in hardness.

May be a great material for knife handles, but the last thing I would want for a ferrule.
Might well be good for pins, like G10 is.

Dale

Dale, FWIW, I've worked with tons of G10, and it's nothing like it. It's dense and uniform, but not nearly as hard. It works similarly to the domestically produced linen and canvas micarta, but the way the "grain" of this material is, and how compressed it was during manufacturing, makes it tough on blades.

 

[jdempsey]

Do you have some for sale ?
I would like to try some as a ferrule ...

Mike, are you an active cue builder? If so, I can send you a piece to try. I'm not here to hawk this stuff. I got enough for me, but that's it. I sold a very small amount in the knife world to recoup my costs but don't have enough to supply anybody else regularly.

I would be interested in trading some toward a cue potentially if a maker tried it and liked it however.

Otherwise I may try to get a builder to use some on a cue for me.

FWIW I feel pretty confident this stuff will work excellently in the same places that linen/canvas type "micartas" do currently in cues. Just from my work with it.

Also, I've got maybe 5-6 different colors. The above is what I've got the most of, but I've got some greens, an orange/brown, etc.

 

[jdempsey]

Also, hi MeridianBlades. Small world.

 

[pdcue]

Dale, FWIW, I've worked with tons of G10, and it's nothing like it. It's dense and uniform, but not nearly as hard. It works similarly to the domestically produced linen and canvas micarta, but the way the "grain" of this material is, and how compressed it was during manufacturing, makes it tough on blades.

I just said it was HARD, maybe hard more like G10.

The stuff people want for ferrules is not hard at all.

Dale

 

[jdempsey]

I just said it was HARD, maybe hard more like G10.

The stuff people want for ferrules is not hard at all.

Dale

Dale, I'm not being trying to be contradictory. I'm also certain that because I know nothing of cuemaking, I'm not describing things in the accepted nomenclature.

It's very "tough", and I was specifically trying to make a comparison to the home made "micarta" that people make with fiberglass and epoxy resins, when I described it as being tougher and harder.

In 1/8" slices it flexes the same as vintage canvas or linen stuff that I have. It's made from shredded "rag" material in the same resins, heated, and under high pressure as the cavnas, linen, paper laminates. It cuts and works pretty much the same as the other domestic vintage stuff I've worked with.

It's a little tougher on saw blades than the big blocks of westinhouse canvas I've got, but it's nothing like the hardness or feel of G10. It's also not remotely prone to chip out.

Occasionally for some reason when cutting the big orbs (which I have to make a "jig" of wood and hot glue, to hold them for resawing), there will be some hard spots that'll cause the saw head to bounce and I'll have to slow the feed down or end up breaking a blade.

When cutting contours etc however, it cuts just like the other stuff.



I may be incorrect, but I feel, that if the other vintage canvas/linen/paper stuff is appropriate for certain parts, this would give similar results.

Because of the non-directional nature of the "pattern" it will turn consistently. I can cut the spheres in any orientation and get roughly the same pattern.

One or two colors has decidedly more open "grain" and doesn't finish as easily. Like some more modern canvas phenolics, and requires a sealer of some type to get a good finer finish, although looks great at lower grit.


Anyway, my primary question was whether anybody had used any of this or the other stuff that's popped up occasionally, which is usually brown tones, and can be found in phenolic casters from antique large machinery carts and dollies sometimes. From the replies thus far, I'm gathering the answer is no.

If some cue maker is interested in trying a piece to see how it plays out, let me know.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Active cue builder

Mike, are you an active cue builder? If so, I can send you a piece to try. I'm not here to hawk this stuff. I got enough for me, but that's it. I sold a very small amount in the knife world to recoup my costs but don't have enough to supply anybody else regularly.

I would be interested in trading some toward a cue potentially if a maker tried it and liked it however.

Otherwise I may try to get a builder to use some on a cue for me.

FWIW I feel pretty confident this stuff will work excellently in the same places that linen/canvas type "micartas" do currently in cues. Just from my work with it.

Also, I've got maybe 5-6 different colors. The above is what I've got the most of, but I've got some greens, an orange/brown, etc.

Hi
If the price is reasonable I was thinking about buying some trying it out .
Sorry I not taking on any more orders at this time ..