Rail height

[9ball]

What is the proper rail height for a 9 ft table? My table plays real fast, And I was told to check the rail height. Where do I measure from? my table is an old table I think it was made by National, It says topline on a small emblem on it thats all the ID it has on it.

And how would I go about tightening the pockets? They are buckets right now, they measure 5" at the corners from rail tip to tip. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks


H.P.

 

[realkingcobra]

What is the proper rail height for a 9 ft table? My table plays real fast, And I was told to check the rail height. Where do I measure from? my table is an old table I think it was made by National, It says topline on a small emblem on it thats all the ID it has on it.

And how would I go about tightening the pockets? They are buckets right now, they measure 5" at the corners from rail tip to tip. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks


H.P.

This answer is easy, contact a table mechanic that knows what he's doing to rework your table, what area do you live in?

Glen

 

[9ball]

This answer is easy, contact a table mechanic that knows what he's doing to rework your table, what area do you live in?

Glen

hi! Glen I live in kansas city ks, about 20 min. from olathe ks.

ever coming thru here?

H.P.

 

[realkingcobra]

hi! Glen I live in kansas city ks, about 20 min. from olathe ks.

ever coming thru here?

H.P.

Sooner or later

 

[9ball]

any answer to these questions?


1. proper rail height...


2. max shim thickness ...


3. type of shim ( gum rubber, neoprene ect. )...

I want to fix this table for my 13 yr son who says it plays to loose for him and wants tighter pockets, ( Thats him in my avatar 2011 Jr national Champ ) I may not be able to afford hiring someone to do all the work, But if I can get some answers to those questions I may do it myself.

I did put it together myself before and it played great. Its just now He wants a tighter table. Help! Anyone?


Thanks

H.P.

 

[realkingcobra]

any answer to these questions?


1. proper rail height...


2. max shim thickness ...


3. type of shim ( gum rubber, neoprene ect. )...

I want to fix this table for my 13 yr son who says it plays to loose for him and wants tighter pockets, ( Thats him in my avatar 2011 Jr national Champ ) I may not be able to afford hiring someone to do all the work, But if I can get some answers to those questions I may do it myself.

I did put it together myself before and it played great. Its just now He wants a tighter table. Help! Anyone?


Thanks

H.P.

1. depends on how thick the sub-rails are and what kind of cushions are being used.

2. depends on how tight the pockets are going to be and how big they already are, extending the sub-rails is the best way...but requires new cushions. In most cases just changing the cushions is not enough, which is where re-calibrating the sub-rails come in if you want the table to play right when done.

3. 3/16" neoprene is what I use.

 

[9ball]

1. depends on how thick the sub-rails are and what kind of cushions are being used.

2. depends on how tight the pockets are going to be and how big they already are, extending the sub-rails is the best way...but requires new cushions. In most cases just changing the cushions is not enough, which is where re-calibrating the sub-rails come in if you want the table to play right when done.

3. 3/16" neoprene is what I use.

\\\

Thanks Glen, For your input.

1 How do I measure the sub-rails , From where to where?


2. pockets are 5" at pocket opening , Want to get them as tight as possible without replacing cushions, If I need to replace cushions then I will need the work done I guess. Trying to do it affordably if I can.


3 I will take the table apart tomorrow to check the sub-rails ect.



Thanks H.P.
/

 

[realkingcobra]

\\\

Thanks Glen, For your input.

1 How do I measure the sub-rails , From where to where?


2. pockets are 5" at pocket opening , Want to get them as tight as possible without replacing cushions, If I need to replace cushions then I will need the work done I guess. Trying to do it affordably if I can.


3 I will take the table apart tomorrow to check the sub-rails ect.



Thanks H.P.
/

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but what you're asking me is like asking...which end of the table do I break from, and where do I rack the balls at:embarrassed2: this is not a DIY kind of thing you're asking about, trust me.

 

[choot]

any answer to these questions?


1. proper rail height...


2. max shim thickness ...


3. type of shim ( gum rubber, neoprene ect. )...

I want to fix this table for my 13 yr son who says it plays to loose for him and wants tighter pockets, ( Thats him in my avatar 2011 Jr national Champ ) I may not be able to afford hiring someone to do all the work, But if I can get some answers to those questions I may do it myself.

I did put it together myself before and it played great. Its just now He wants a tighter table. Help! Anyone?


Thanks

H.P.

Long time lurker here. Congrats to your son. That's quite an accomplishment!

Not a mechanic but those here are THE gurus! I've learned alot and appreciate them sharing their knowledge. There's tons of hacks out there. How you tell the good from the bad is near impossible unless you get a reference from some here. Whoever originally assembled my table couldn't even get the frame stamps matched.

When you say "shims" do you mean the "facings?" I'm in the process of restoring my table now and I replaced my (I think they were 1/8th inch facings and original) with 1/4. I cut them slightly larger using the originals as templates. Glued and stapled. Used a dremel with a flat stone to shape to match the cushions perfectly. Came out pretty good and I guess I took 1/4 out of the pockets. Got them off ebay. I think 70 durometer neophrene.

Is your cloth original? Maybe why it plays so fast? It's wore out. I got the mid grade Proform. It's worsted without the simonis price tag. Maybe won't hold up to commercial play but good for home.

I believe the cushion height is, what it is. Unless you get a pro like some here to recalibrate and replace the cushions. $$$! Same with extending the rails. otoh, you CAN make your table play it's factory best just by paying attention to detail if you replace the cloth and facings. Whoever assembled my table didn't trim the cloth on the rails underneath, basically raising my rails at least an 1/8th.

Again, congratulations to your son! You should be VERY proud!

 

[9ball]

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but what you're asking me is like asking...which end of the table do I break from, and where do I rack the balls at:embarrassed2: this is not a DIY kind of thing you're asking about, trust me.

Glen, I know exactly what you mean, However doing the tightening the pockets is not beyond my abilities. If I`m told or showed how,Then I can do. I am not your average DIYer.

I just needed to clarify somethings before I start. True I would not attempt to replace the cushions or extend the sub-rails that I would prefer to leave to someone like you! Who has the great knowledge to do so.:thumbup:


As always thanks for your input. Always appreciated!



H.P.

 

[9ball]

Long time lurker here. Congrats to your son. That's quite an accomplishment!

Not a mechanic but those here are THE gurus! I've learned alot and appreciate them sharing their knowledge. There's tons of hacks out there. How you tell the good from the bad is near impossible unless you get a reference from some here. Whoever originally assembled my table couldn't even get the frame stamps matched.

When you say "shims" do you mean the "facings?" I'm in the process of restoring my table now and I replaced my (I think they were 1/8th inch facings and original) with 1/4. I cut them slightly larger using the originals as templates. Glued and stapled. Used a dremel with a flat stone to shape to match the cushions perfectly. Came out pretty good and I guess I took 1/4 out of the pockets. Got them off ebay. I think 70 durometer neophrene.

Is your cloth original? Maybe why it plays so fast? It's wore out. I got the mid grade Proform. It's worsted without the simonis price tag. Maybe won't hold up to commercial play but good for home.

I believe the cushion height is, what it is. Unless you get a pro like some here to recalibrate and replace the cushions. $$$! Same with extending the rails. otoh, you CAN make your table play it's factory best just by paying attention to detail if you replace the cloth and facings. Whoever assembled my table didn't trim the cloth on the rails underneath, basically raising my rails at least an 1/8th.

Again, congratulations to your son! You should be VERY proud!

Thanks for the kind words, Yes I am proud, He worked hard at it to get there.
Went undefeated during the entire 4 day event, in all categories. When he won the title it was such a great feeling of seeing your own son accomplish what he set out to do. Also a relief knowing hes done it and not have to worry about the ride home , an anyone ever taking that away from him.



Thanks for sharing how you did your table, I have Simonis on mine, rails always played fast. I was thinking of using 1/4 in. facings but wondered how the table would play! Where did you get yours from are they still available?

I never thought of using different cloth, to slow down the speed , might be an option, We always play on Simonis. Where did you get yours from?




Thanks for your input! Appreciate it.


H.P.

 

[choot]

I don't know how it will play with 1/4 facings yet. I'm still working on it. It's why the pros get paid good money. Time is money. lol. Maybe they will chime in. My skins thick.

Most everything I've read only says don't double up the facing.

I'm not sure if you could re-use your existing rail cloth because of trimming. My featherstrips came out without breaking. I just pulled all the staples and pulled on the cloth straight up from one end to the other.

Maybe you have Simonis 760 or 300. The 860hr is the slowest. I think it's been said the proform is comparable to reg 860. A little faster than 860HR.

Lots of vendors have em. I got mine here.

 

[Club Billiards]

I don't know how it will play with 1/4 facings yet. I'm still working on it. It's why the pros get paid good money. Time is money. lol. Maybe they will chime in. My skins thick.

Most everything I've read only says don't double up the facing.

I'm not sure if you could re-use your existing rail cloth because of trimming. My featherstrips came out without breaking. I just pulled all the staples and pulled on the cloth straight up from one end to the other.

Maybe you have Simonis 760 or 300. The 860hr is the slowest. I think it's been said the proform is comparable to reg 860. A little faster than 860HR.

Lots of vendors have em. I got mine here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pool-Table-...054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a686b9c86

No disrespect, but there's a little misinformation here.

You would most likely not be able to r-use your rail cloth because it was stretched and trimmed on top and bottom, so you won't have enough to grip and stretch properly.

Also, the speed in Simonis from slow to fast goes 860, 860HR, 760, then 300 Rapide, which is a Billiard cloth, not a pool cloth. If you're on a budget and you feel that your table plays faster than normal now, 300 is out of the question.

My opinion towards the OP, if you're a true, good DIY as you say, pull it apart, see how it was put together, and DIY. Yes you can search and read and ask questions, but don't be offended if no one will give you the step-by-step. At that point, it's not DIY, it's someone else doing it with your hands.

You can't really call a car mechanic and get step-by-step detailed instructions on how to replace your starter either. You can buy a manual, you can go to one of those sites where you can pay to ask a pro, or you can DIY. We are a little more free with the info around here, but only to a point.

The project you're getting into is more involved than just your typical work on a table. Some guys on here have attempted to do it from the info on this site, and I think just about every one of them have said they would never do it again...they would hire a pro the next time. Keep that in mind.

 

[9ball]

No disrespect, but there's a little misinformation here.

You would most likely not be able to r-use your rail cloth because it was stretched and trimmed on top and bottom, so you won't have enough to grip and stretch properly.

Also, the speed in Simonis from slow to fast goes 860, 860HR, 760, then 300 Rapide, which is a Billiard cloth, not a pool cloth. If you're on a budget and you feel that your table plays faster than normal now, 300 is out of the question.

My opinion towards the OP, if you're a true, good DIY as you say, pull it apart, see how it was put together, and DIY. Yes you can search and read and ask questions, but don't be offended if no one will give you the step-by-step. At that point, it's not DIY, it's someone else doing it with your hands.

You can't really call a car mechanic and get step-by-step detailed instructions on how to replace your starter either. You can buy a manual, you can go to one of those sites where you can pay to ask a pro, or you can DIY. We are a little more free with the info around here, but only to a point.

The project you're getting into is more involved than just your typical work on a table. Some guys on here have attempted to do it from the info on this site, and I think just about every one of them have said they would never do it again...they would hire a pro the next time. Keep that in mind.

Thanks,

Not offended! Don`t expect to get totally free advice just a little direction, As in ( ask the mechanic! ).


Thanks H.P.

 

[choot]

No disrespect, but there's a little misinformation here.

You would most likely not be able to r-use your rail cloth because it was stretched and trimmed on top and bottom, so you won't have enough to grip and stretch properly.

Also, the speed in Simonis from slow to fast goes 860, 860HR, 760, then 300 Rapide, which is a Billiard cloth, not a pool cloth. If you're on a budget and you feel that your table plays faster than normal now, 300 is out of the question.

My opinion towards the OP, if you're a true, good DIY as you say, pull it apart, see how it was put together, and DIY. Yes you can search and read and ask questions, but don't be offended if no one will give you the step-by-step. At that point, it's not DIY, it's someone else doing it with your hands.

You can't really call a car mechanic and get step-by-step detailed instructions on how to replace your starter either. You can buy a manual, you can go to one of those sites where you can pay to ask a pro, or you can DIY. We are a little more free with the info around here, but only to a point.

The project you're getting into is more involved than just your typical work on a table. Some guys on here have attempted to do it from the info on this site, and I think just about every one of them have said they would never do it again...they would hire a pro the next time. Keep that in mind.

My bad, on the cloth speed. I could have swore I read 860HR was the slowest. Where does proform compare in your opinion? And using 1/4 facing instead of the original 1/8th or 3/16ths?

9ball, do you know what simonis you have? You could probably just get the rail cloth if you just wanted to re-do the facings to tighten up the pockets a little.

 

[9ball]

My bad, on the cloth speed. I could have swore I read 860HR was the slowest. Where does proform compare in your opinion? And using 1/4 facing instead of the original 1/8th or 3/16ths?

9ball, do you know what simonis you have? You could probably just get the rail cloth if you just wanted to re-do the facings to tighten up the pockets a little.

Yes, when I did my table I put on 860 Simonis, Will probably just replace the rail cloth as we mainly use this table for practice and an drills, Dont want to replace the table cloth just yet.



H.P.

 

[choot]

Yes, when I did my table I put on 860 Simonis, Will probably just replace the rail cloth as we mainly use this table for practice and an drills, Dont want to replace the table cloth just yet.



H.P.

I guess it would depend on what size facings you currently have if it would be worth it. Mine were standard 1/8th inch. That gave me an 1/8 less on each side of the pocket for a total 1/4 less in the pocket. If you already have 3/16th, it may not be worth your trouble. jmho.

I'd still like to hear some opinions on how the 1/4 facings play compared to 3/16ths and 1/8th.

To tell you how bad my table was hacked. A GC2. When it was recovered last time, probably in the 80s, they put a finish nail towards the point of the facing because the glue had let loose. The nail was into the cushion. No wood. lol.

 

[9ball]

I guess it would depend on what size facings you currently have if it would be worth it. Mine were standard 1/8th inch. That gave me an 1/8 less on each side of the pocket for a total 1/4 less in the pocket. If you already have 3/16th, it may not be worth your trouble. jmho.

I'd still like to hear some opinions on how the 1/4 facings play compared to 3/16ths and 1/8th.

To tell you how bad my table was hacked. A GC2. When it was recovered last time, probably in the 80s, they put a finish nail towards the point of the facing because the glue had let loose. The nail was into the cushion. No wood. lol.

My table has the 1/8 " facings, I will try the 1/4 an see how it does before I replace everything, Mine is not a gold crown or otherwise I would not mine the expense. it is a very nice table just cant really afford the complete makeover just yet....lol .




H.P.

 

[matteroner]

My table has the 1/8 " facings, I will try the 1/4 an see how it does before I replace everything, Mine is not a gold crown or otherwise I would not mine the expense. it is a very nice table just cant really afford the complete makeover just yet....lol .




H.P.

cushion nose height is 1 7/16" measured from the table to the nose of the cushion

1/4 inch facings max but you need 60 durometer neoprene for it to play okay

if your table is fast and the balls don't jump then you are probably okay.

 

[9ball]

cushion nose height is 1 7/16" measured from the table to the nose of the cushion

1/4 inch facings max but you need 60 durometer neoprene for it to play okay

if your table is fast and the balls don't jump then you are probably okay.

Thanks for your input, That`s the kind of info I was looking for!

1. The balls jump a little off the rail if hit firm.



2. I found some facings on ebay that are 1/4 " but they say they are 75 durometer. exactly what does that mean? Is it the softness of the rubber? do you think they would work?

3.Do you know the difference between the orange colored rubber and the black neoprene rubber? Which is best in your opinion?


Thanks H.P.