I've been trying to put together a library of biographical information on pool and billiards players recently. My library is quite small. Hustler Days, and The Hustler and The Champ each by R.A. Dyer, Byrne's Great Stories about Pool, and Mcgoorty: A Pool Room Hustler(which is my fav.), etc... Are there any good biographical sources out there that focus on Greenleaf, or Willie Hoppe... Or any of the old time players. The Mcgoorty book is great, but kind of tease when he gives short but fascinating stories about Alfred De Oro and his bladder.... But seeing there is so much info on Mosconi, it would be really nice to have good biography on Greenleaf and/or Hoppe. And I'd really enjoy a good read about Cisero Murphy as well...
Ralph Greenleaf and other sources
- Thread starter thedude
- Start date
I don't think any biographical books that focus on Greenleaf exists. If anyone would know, Mike Shamos of the Billiard Archive would know. Same goes for Cisero. I'm sure a book about these people would be very interesting. Someone on this forum will have to give us the contact info for Mr Shamos.
Hoppe published an autobiography in 1925 -- "Thirty Years of Billiards". There is also, somewhere, a scrapbook of all his newspaper clippings.thedude said:
For Greenleaf, you might start by contacting Hal Houle who knew Greenleaf towards the end of Ralph's life.
I think we missed a golden opportunity to learn more about Ralph Greenleaf through the many people who knew him and only recently passed on. His wife lived to a ripe old age and would have been a excellent source of information. Same goes for Fred Whalen, who must've lived to be around 90. Whalen was a top level player who knew Ralph well. Besides those folks, I had met people that actually remembered seeing Ralph doing exhibitions and those now famous straight pool matchups. I'm sure they're all gone now.
thedude said:
No biography / autobiography was ever written on Greenleaf. The earliest biographical work of a major player that I'm aware of is the one Bob mentioned on Hoppe. I have Andrew Ponzi's autobiography entitled "The Fabulous Mr Ponzi" that was published in 1948.
For info on the old time 14.1 champions, Billiard Digest was a great source. They've done extensive articles on Taberski, DeOro, Caras, Balsis and the like. Pool & Billiards Magazine has the wonderful Tom Shaw, a top shelf pool historian who has written multiple "Legends" articles on the great players. Mike Shamos has written a very good article on Erwin Rudolph. Your best bet on gathering these articles is to try to get as many back issues of the two mags I've mentioned, although many of the older issues are long sold out.
Also, check the micro-film at some major libraries in the cities where these players lived or competed. There are lots of ways to gather the info you're looking for, including contacting other pool historians and interviews with people in pooldom who know or knew about these players you're interested in.
As for Cicero Murphy, Sports Illistrated has written some articles on him, as have Billiards Digest and Pool & Billiard Magazine. They are very informative and revealing. Accu-Stats has a match of Murphy playing Bill Dunsmore in the 1995 Maine Event 14.1 Championship. Although he's past his prime, the footage is top quality. It's tape number ME-03. Accu-Stats number is 1-800-828-0397.
J D Dolan
Get hold of J D Dolan an english professor at Western Michigan U. He is writing a movie script on Greenleaf. He has movie clips and has studied Ralphs life. J D frequents OnePocket.org and AZ periodically.
the Beard
Get hold of J D Dolan an english professor at Western Michigan U. He is writing a movie script on Greenleaf. He has movie clips and has studied Ralphs life. J D frequents OnePocket.org and AZ periodically.
the Beard
The archaeology of billiards
Thanks for all the info. Though apparently no biography on Greenleaf exists, I at least got some information on gaining more info about his life. In addition, I wasn't aware of the Hoppe or Ponzi biographies. Being a former English major who went on to being an archaeologist, and a pool room bum... well books, info on the history of billiards are fascinating.
I think it would be interesting to look at billiards in the United States from the 1850's to the depression era from an archaeological standpoint. To examine the material remains of 19th century billiards players and associated venues of play would be extremely interesting, especially if one were to do a comparative analysis in relation to billiards today(speaking of the various forms of billiards: pocket billiards, snooker, and the various incarnations of carom billiards.) Anyone want be my archaeological stakehorse looking at billiards from an archaeological standpoint? haha... That would be grand. It would at least be an interesting masters thesis.
Thanks for all the info. Though apparently no biography on Greenleaf exists, I at least got some information on gaining more info about his life. In addition, I wasn't aware of the Hoppe or Ponzi biographies. Being a former English major who went on to being an archaeologist, and a pool room bum... well books, info on the history of billiards are fascinating.
I think it would be interesting to look at billiards in the United States from the 1850's to the depression era from an archaeological standpoint. To examine the material remains of 19th century billiards players and associated venues of play would be extremely interesting, especially if one were to do a comparative analysis in relation to billiards today(speaking of the various forms of billiards: pocket billiards, snooker, and the various incarnations of carom billiards.) Anyone want be my archaeological stakehorse looking at billiards from an archaeological standpoint? haha... That would be grand. It would at least be an interesting masters thesis.