Ranking of woman of the IPT, about what I thought.

SlimShafty

SlimShafty

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, now we have a much better idea of just how hard it's going to be for the women to compete, and many surprises have happened since I first posted the question before the tour started.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=19049

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=215521&postcount=63

I was pretty much on the mark outside of Sarah Ellerby being the top ranked women at 73, I thought no women would make it into the top 75. So far I'm pretty close predicting Allison to be at 77 (she's at 86) and Lori Jon at 87 (she's at 97) Corr at 132 is surprise for me as I thought she would be around 80.

All the others are pretty much were I thought and sadly most will not gain a tour card. Should the top 10 ranked women have a reserved place in the IPT? I think it would work and help with media ratings, just make the tour 156 Players. But most will scoff at the idea of making exceptions for women but I think they are vital to the IPT. It appears only 3 or 4 will keep their tour card.

All that being said, with the last tournament being only IPT members, I could see a few women move up a bit, and maybe Allison will jump into the top 75, but all in all I would say it's going to be tough for women to stay in the top 75 for the year, and even harder next year.

Sarah Ellerby plays some great 8 ball, she has the highest finish in any single tournament at 51. But look out for Jasmin, she would have been ranked much higher around 80 or better if she had qualified for the first tournament and she has the best winning % of all women @ 56.03%

Top 10 women
73 Ellerby, Sarah
86 Fisher, Allison
97 Jones, Loree Jon
123 Hofstatter, Gerda
130 Fisher, Kelly
132 Corr, Karen
133 Ouschan, Jasmin * qualified only one tournament.
157 Thornfeldt, Helena
161 Webb, Monica
164 Dodson, Robin

All in all the women are ranked about what I thought, some people really thought they would rank much higher, but the top 50 men are just in league by themselves. Why this is, I'm not too sure, but it's really interesting to watch it play out, and I hope to see the women get stronger.
 
The main reason ..

for their rankings is 'Breaking from the Box', otherwise, I think they would be rated higher. Even if they make a ball, they are left with more clusters to deal with.

You should also report their B&R% as compared to the men, and I think it would shed some light on the subject.
 
stacked the deck a bit

The IPT stacked the deck a bit against the women with the cloth. As a general statement, men are physically stronger and have more leverage, giving an advantage.

Since the slow cloth didn't help MS after all, I think it will go away if the IPT survives a few years. Then we will see what the women can do on a more equal footing.

Hu
 
The IPT has touted itself as being run off the PGA model. Maybe there needs to be a tour run off of the LPGA model too.

Faster cloth isn't going to level the field either. Any benefit to the women would equally be a benefit to the men, so it would be a wash. It may make the women's B&R % go up, but it's also going to make the men's go up too.

All things equal, the women can't compete with the men. It sucks, but it's reality.
 
TX Poolnut said:
The IPT has touted itself as being run off the PGA model. Maybe there needs to be a tour run off of the LPGA model too.

Faster cloth isn't going to level the field either. Any benefit to the women would equally be a benefit to the men, so it would be a wash. It may make the women's B&R % go up, but it's also going to make the men's go up too.

All things equal, the women can't compete with the men. It sucks, but it's reality.
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Todd,
You are a sexist pig and must die.
Love,
Lewis
 
Lol

ShootingArts said:
The IPT stacked the deck a bit against the women with the cloth. As a general statement, men are physically stronger and have more leverage, giving an advantage.

Hu
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Give me a break ... Cloth doesn't make one iota difference for women, the amount of effort needed for slow cloth is only slightly more .... not like needing 80 lbs more pressure.
 
TX Poolnut said:
The IPT has touted itself as being run off the PGA model. Maybe there needs to be a tour run off of the LPGA model too.
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I agree, but I'm not sure we could support 2 IPT tours when the current is still trying to get legs. But what if they just keep the 2 together and the top women would be considered 1st place and you add a small bonus to all women 1-5 like say $20,000 for 1st $10,000 for second, etc... just tack it on and show a separate leader board.

like in the NA open Sarah would have been 1st place of the women and made $30,000 instead of $10,000, and Fisher would have been 2nd and got $15,000, just to spice things up a bit. They need to emphasize the top women in each tournament.

I really feel the tour needs to have at least 10 of the best women playing on it, I also think some will improve over time and might even have a shot to break into the top 20 of a single tournament and just maybe get into the top 50 which would be great.

They should make spots available for the top 10 women regardless of the rule of top 100. We need Fisher, Lee, Ellerby, Ouschan, Corr, etc...
 
I'd prefer to not see concessions for the women. All that would do is raise contraversy as to why it is being done. Leave it like it is... is my preference.

The tour's survival will not hinge on whether or not there's any women on it.... jmo.
 
SlimShafty said:
But what if they just keep the 2 together and the top women would be considered 1st place and you add a small bonus to all women 1-5 like say $20,000 for 1st $10,000 for second, etc... just tack it on and show a separate leader board.

They should make spots available for the top 10 women regardless of the rule of top 100. We need Fisher, Lee, Ellerby, Ouschan, Corr, etc...
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So you're suggesting exception in place of equality? I have to disagree. To be legimate, the tour should not make exception for anyone. Playing ability should dictate ranking, not sex or any other factor IMO.
 
Since this is a sexless tour it should be treated as such. Women shouldn't get special treatment. As a previous poster mentioned it would just create controversy, not good controversy either. It would be far more interesting if a women was able to maintain her tour card legitimately over time without any special favours

That is what generates interest, not propping up players who can not compete.
 
I am sure the ten men who would be kicked out of the IPT to let the women in would like it.

How would you like it if you ranked 95th and were told you didn't make it because they have to let a woman in?

Jake
 
NaClBandit said:
So you're suggesting exception in place of equality? I have to disagree. To be legimate, the tour should not make exception for anyone. Playing ability should dictate ranking, not sex or any other factor IMO.
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Playing ability would still dictate rank, your just saying the top women in first place among the women, Sarah would still be ranked 73, just a note that she's ranked #1 among all women. They aren't given any special treatment in the competition like a handicap, The top 10 women of the IPT are just that, the best 10 women on tour, they deserve credit for that just as the top Americans do or Europeans. As far as adding a bonus to the top 5 placing women, OK I can agree with you, I can see that as not the best idea, but having a way to keep the top 10 Women on the tour is not a problem in my eyes.

The PGA makes exemptions, if you win certain tournaments you get a tour card, or win certain events and get a free pass to that event for 5 years, having the top 10 women in the IPT get a tour card does not make it any easier for them in a tournament, or give them an advantage, and if you add those spots to the 150 it doesn't take away spots from a man.

Cameron Smith said:
Since this is a sexless tour it should be treated as such. Women shouldn't get special treatment. As a previous poster mentioned it would just create controversy, not good controversy either. It would be far more interesting if a women was able to maintain her tour card legitimately over time without any special favours

That is what generates interest, not propping up players who can not compete.
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Yeah, I tend to agree, but I still think the tour can use a few good women to make it more interesting, and it makes for some interesting match-ups, sure they may not break into the top 75 or even 100, but that still means they are beating out 50 or more top men:D

So how about a legitimate way to keep a few good women in the tour. How about you allow exemptions to the top 8 women from the womens 9 ball US open, and do the same for the men, top 8 from the US open. That way it's equal and you would be guaranteed to keep at least the top 8 women players from the 9 ball tour, other sports have similar exemptions.

Or you could have an all women IPT tournament and the top 5 get tour cards , it's not like they would get an advantage in the IPT, but at least you would have the top 8 or 10 women players on tour.

I don't know, I just feel like the IPT is going to be missing out on some great women, sure we may end up with Allison, Jasmin, Sarah Ellerby maybe Karen Corr and Lori Jon, which I guess is good, but I bet by next year you may only get 1 or 2 in the top 100.


Does anyone feel having Jeanette Lee on tour would not be a positive for the tour? or Jasmin? I would love to see the top 10 women on tour all the time, as it stands we are only going to have 3.

.
 
what is "slightly more" times fifteen?

What is "slightly more" times fifteen? Poor breaks are what killed Allison in one televised match and seems to be the overall issue concerning women. Corr played well against Archer when she kept the table after the break.

I haven't played on the IPT cloth so I don't know anything about how much difference it makes other than the commentator's claims and the stats but the stats do seem to make a liar out of you.

Hu



Snapshot9 said:
Give me a break ... Cloth doesn't make one iota difference for women, the amount of effort needed for slow cloth is only slightly more .... not like needing 80 lbs more pressure.
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There are 50 more tour cards available by placing in the top 50 in the quaifying tournement.

The top women should be able to take 3 or 4 of those cards, if not more.
 
No spots should be set aside for special categories of players.

If you set aside 10 spots for women on the tour, why wouldn't you also set aside 10 spots for Hall of Famers, 10 spots for juniors, 10 spots for seniors, and several spots for the winners of various BCA, APA, VNEA, and TAP amateur tournaments, etc.

KT set aside these spots when selecting the first 150 players. He has been quoted as saying that the first 150 were chosen based on a mix of their resumes, application timeliness, charisma, and sentimentality; but, by relegating 50 players yearly, the IPT would be left with the top 150 by 2008.

Also, if a woman eventually reached the later stages of a tournament with the help of a preferred spot, there would always be a cloud over the accomplishment. On the other hand, a woman reaching the later stages with no assistance becomes a huge story.

The Indy Racing League got a ton of coverage and publicity when Danica Patrick led a lap at Indy in 2005, but the impact would have been diminished if she had started the race with a 10-second head start.

That all being said, my guess is that 6 women will be among the 150 tour members next year.
 
ShootingArts said:
Since the slow cloth didn't help MS after all, I think it will go away if the IPT survives a few years. Then we will see what the women can do on a more equal footing.

Hu
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Keep in mind that next year the tour is only going get deeper in talent level. Plus, most of the women are going to have to re-qualify for the tour which will be no easy task either.
 
I agree

sniper said:
Keep in mind that next year the tour is only going get deeper in talent level. Plus, most of the women are going to have to re-qualify for the tour which will be no easy task either.
Click to expand...


I think the women will be gone from the IPT shortly except for the most stubborn. Better chances of endorsements playing elsewhere. If and when the cloth changes I think a few will be back, assuming the IPT lasts a few years. I hope the optimists are right about the IPT but I'm very skeptical of it being around in it's present form.

Hu
 
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