Rare antique custom cue...

[Mr. Bass Man]

I recently acquired a pair of old cues, one a custom Willie Hoppe and a turn of the century custom ebony cue. The butt is solid ebony, 1 3/8 at its widest point, 13/16 at the joint, and 25 15/16 long. It has a solid ivory piloted threaded joint, an ivory ring, and an ebony butt cap. The shaft is old growth, perfectly straight, 10mm ivory ferrule, with the pin is 35 inches long!!! The pin is 3/8 and has about 12 threads in the 7/8 length. The Willie Hoppe is an early production professional with the first decal, dark rosewood with natural colored veneers and nearly perfect points. I say this was custom because the shaft is 32 3/8 inches long and tapered identically with an 11mm ivory and the same weight. I believe the owner had the Hoppe cue built to spec of the ebony cue as it is much older. Both cues are 59 7/8 inches in length when assembled. Who could have built this old ebony cue? Possibly Harvey Martin? Rambow? Experts and collectors lets hear what you think!!

 

[Mr. Bass Man]

Sorry about the multi post, had to upload photobucket for multi pics

The ebony cue

The Willie Hoppe Professional

 

[Scott Lee]

Cool stuff! Don't know the builder, but somebody here will. Nice find! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[Mr. Bass Man]

Cool stuff! Don't know the builder, but somebody here will. Nice find! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks Scott! Anybody got a clue?

 

[takeitdown]

Not a Martin

This cue predates Harvey Martin's first cue which came in 1920. His cues are much different than these. Mostly birdseye maple, never seen an ebony Martin.

This cue is 1890-1910 period. I think it is a Brunswick custom with no logo. It was owned by someone with a real love of the game. At 10 mm and the shaft length probably a billiard cue. The dimensions of the butt are similiar to the Hub cue by Brunswick , fat and oblong. The wrap is unique, what I see of it. Not anything from the Brunswick catalogs I have seen. The Hoppe ring and black fibre bumper were extras available in the 1905 Brunswick catalog and likely were available prior. That straigt cut brass pin is real old. I dont think this cue could be anything but pre 1910. By 1920 cues had the joint pin in the butt end, almost exclusively.

George Britner was a master cuemaker at Brunswick during this time. There were many talented cuemakers in America then. The best cuemakers were immigrants from Europe, who worked in Brunswicks French factories. When the industrial revolution came, pool and Brunswicl grew tremendously.

 

[Mr. Bass Man]

Thank you takeitdown, I had a feeling it was older but no clue how old. Has anyone ever seen a joint like this or are there any pictures out there of similar joints? Also if it was a Britner how could it be identified?

 

[Mr. Bass Man]

After close inspection I have found some very interesting things about this cue

The butt is older than the shaft and the ivory joint. The ivory ring as well as cap have been cut by hand not on a lathe. Also the ebony shaft is threaded beyond the ivory joint and has larger diameter bore.

Call me crazy but could this be a very early rambow purchased by a gentleman who later had him build a new shaft and joint? Then later yet the gentleman had rambow make him a matching willie hoppe in order that he didn't have to take his prized cue into public?

 

[Mr. Bass Man]

This cue predates Harvey Martin's first cue which came in 1920. His cues are much different than these. Mostly birdseye maple, never seen an ebony Martin.

This cue is 1890-1910 period. I think it is a Brunswick custom with no logo. It was owned by someone with a real love of the game. At 10 mm and the shaft length probably a billiard cue. The dimensions of the butt are similiar to the Hub cue by Brunswick , fat and oblong. The wrap is unique, what I see of it. Not anything from the Brunswick catalogs I have seen. The Hoppe ring and black fibre bumper were extras available in the 1905 Brunswick catalog and likely were available prior. That straigt cut brass pin is real old. I dont think this cue could be anything but pre 1910. By 1920 cues had the joint pin in the butt end, almost exclusively.

George Britner was a master cuemaker at Brunswick during this time. There were many talented cuemakers in America then. The best cuemakers were immigrants from Europe, who worked in Brunswicks French factories. When the industrial revolution came, pool and Brunswicl grew tremendously.

I've had a few conversations with people about the characteristics of the cue. Some suggest it could be Rambow but considering this statement it would have to be made very early in his career. The fact that the butt cap and ivory ring are knife cut suggests that this was not a production cue and it was obviously updated at some point with the ivory collar and shafts by an extremely talented hand. The original pin was much larger in diameter and threaded about two inches into the butt, the pin that's in it is definately in the turn of the century era, this would also suggest the cue might be older than 1890. The shaft and overall setup of this cue strongly resembles the specs of the 1908 brunswick catalogs the vulcanite (which isn't in the catalog but is in the blue book). It is mentioned that George Britner was an extremely talented cue and made cues to the taste of the player without inlays as he felt it weakened the cue. He also didn't sign his cues and this cue has no identifying marks whatsoever. Also just to clarify there is no wrap that is tape residue, the butt is not grooved for a wrap.

 

[Mr. Bass Man]

So I've been looking all over the place for information on this cue. The closest cue I can find is a vulcanite in the bbc. I also found some interesting things with the cue: my first thoughts about the cue being modified were accurate, the threads beyond the ivory ferrule were worn out and thus the original pin was cut down to only thread into the ivory eliminating any further decay; it is also apparent that the willie hoppe was indeed custom made to match not only the balance and weight but also the taper. I have several of these cues and this one has a smaller butt diameter and it also has a much smaller diameter grip. If this is indeed a Rambow would that place it at the beginning of his career? What do you guys think it's worth considering it's rarity? And finally is the Hoppe also a Rambow made to the owners request?

 

[Mr. Bond]

Very interesting.
I must look into this.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Anybody got a clue?

The Butler did it with the Maid in the kitchen.

Thats all I know other than you seem to come up with some nice finds.

 

[Mr. Bond]

So I've been looking all over the place for information on this cue. The closest cue I can find is a vulcanite in the bbc. I also found some interesting things with the cue: my first thoughts about the cue being modified were accurate, the threads beyond the ivory ferrule were worn out and thus the original pin was cut down to only thread into the ivory eliminating any further decay; it is also apparent that the willie hoppe was indeed custom made to match not only the balance and weight but also the taper. I have several of these cues and this one has a smaller butt diameter and it also has a much smaller diameter grip. If this is indeed a Rambow would that place it at the beginning of his career? What do you guys think it's worth considering it's rarity? And finally is the Hoppe also a Rambow made to the owners request?

I think it was a production cue that has been re-worked/refurbished, perhaps by Britner, perhaps by Rambow, perhaps by someone else.

Given Rambow's affinity for working ivory, I suspect it could have been his handiwork, but of course it's hard to say for sure without more solid evidence.

 

[nickgeo]

Reversed?

Hi,
Possible that a butt pin got stuck in the shaft and what you see is the root of the pin. I've corrected that on 3 vintage cues. Wrap some rubber around the exposed pin and use a vise grip to unscrew it from shaft. See what you get....
Take care,
Nick