Really not a fan of Predator "Arcrapia" equipment...

Tyler Styer did a post saying the players were unhappy with the conditions of the table, complaining about the speed of the simonis.
Comentators also said the TV table was torn apart, cloth off etc, when they got there in the morning. There will always be issues, for diamond or any company.

I'm not anti diamond. In the early 2000s we had a pool open in our area, had 20 diamonds. They played pretty poorly, kind of like pin ball machines Obviously they've improved.

My point is, everyone has to start somewhere. Personally I'd have no problem with Diamond having a monopoly. I do have a problem with 9 month waits to get a table. That needs to change.
 
rexus31 said:
Explain to me how roll offs and inconsistent rail play is the same as tight pockets. Seems like apples and oranges to me.
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Generally the Diamond tables play very consistent with each other. The last Derby though, that stream table was rolling off a mile all week. First time I've seen that. Usually their staff is on hand with levels to fix any issues. Obviously that was a setup issue, not a design issue.
 
dendweller said:
Tyler Styer did a post saying the players were unhappy with the conditions of the table, complaining about the speed of the simonis.
Comentators also said the TV table was torn apart, cloth off etc, when they got there in the morning. There will always be issues, for diamond or any company.

I'm not anti diamond. In the early 2000s we had a pool open in our area, had 20 diamonds. They played pretty poorly, kind of like pin ball machines Obviously they've improved.

My point is, everyone has to start somewhere. Personally I'd have no problem with Diamond having a monopoly. I do have a problem with 9 month waits to get a table. That needs to change.
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Tyler is also the guy who says you should clean pool balls with Pledge so...
 
dendweller said:
...snip...

My point is, everyone has to start somewhere. Personally I'd have no problem with Diamond having a monopoly. I do have a problem with 9 month waits to get a table. That needs to change.
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That will never change unless they increase capacity working more shifts or get a second factory. I don't think they will do that, I think they are complacent in their market position.

Predator on the other hand, I feel their boss, Karim, has that super get up and go attitude, and will grow his table line over the years. He went from intern at Predator to the big boss. Maybe he will add other manufacturers as well. IMO.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I think in 10 year's time Predator will have a higher "per year sales" market than Diamond.

How did Diamond get the market share over Brunswick? Brunswick fell off the pro tour map, stopped all advertising and sponsorship. Diamond did all of that. Now, Predator is doing more sponsorship, more advertising, and hosting more events than Diamond. Plus, players (both pro and amateur), are loyal to their brand, starting from the 314 shaft in the 90's. I also thing Predator will be more able to meet demand as it grows compared to Daimond.

That's my prediction:)

*Edit, Diamond was also about half the price of GC all through the 90's and 2000's, and direct from the factory. Cost is always a huge factor in purchase decisions. Predator is now competitively priced.
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Maybe.

If their tour continues, they'll just need to slightly turn up the heat on their sponsored players, getting them to sing their praises in regards to these tables. I know Seaman got rid of his GC not too long ago, and was raving about his new Predator table. He's a pretty genuine guy and he says he really loves these Predator tables.

The players on this forum aren't always a good judge of where the pool world is at or where it's going, as we are more diehards. The other 90 percent of players are more influenced by what the pro players like. Proof of that is -- tight pockets when most of them can't run out on a plus 5 inch pocketed GC.

You might just be right. I don't want to fast forward ten years to find out though because life is flying by too fast already.
 
iusedtoberich said:
That will never change unless they increase capacity working more shifts or get a second factory. I don't think they will do that, I think they are complacent in their market position.

Predator on the other hand, I feel their boss, Karim, has that super get up and go attitude, and will grow his table line over the years. He went from intern at Predator to the big boss. Maybe he will add other manufacturers as well. IMO.
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BasementDweller said:
The players on this forum aren't always a good judge of where the pool world is at or where it's going, as we are more diehards.
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Could be that the future of pool tables includes heavy use of metal, composite and laminated materials. Shafts certainly have evolved.
 
dendweller said:
Could be that the future of pool tables includes heavy use of metal, composite and laminated materials. Shafts certainly have evolved.
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They could use hemp fibers. It's one of the strongest natrual materials on earth. And engineered hemp laminate could be an excellent material. And it would be much cheaper. It does grow like a "weed".

Utilizing hemp for many other things would take the pressure off our wood supply and lower the cost, and help the environment too.

Hemp had a huge part in helping us win WW2. It could be just as helpful today.
 
buckshotshoey said:
They could use hemp fibers. It's one of the strongest natrual materials on earth. And engineered hemp laminate could be an excellent material. And it would be much cheaper. It does grow like a "weed".

Utilizing hemp for many other things would take the pressure off our wood supply and lower the cost, and help the environment too.

Hemp had a huge part in helping us win WW2. It could be just as helpful today.
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The frames on Diamond Pro's are made from scrap wood basically. Called TimberstrandLSL its made from wood chunks in a epoxy matrix. Strong as hell, they make wooden i-beams/joists out of the stuff. You can bore a 4" hole in one of their housing beams and not reduce its strength at all. https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/engineered-lumber/timberstrand-lsl/timberstrand-lsl-beams/
 
I see in the 10 ball how slow the rails are....pros coming way short over and over.
 
Woodshaft said:
Not atm, but a lot of my buddies are playing in the BCA World's there in Vegas on the 7 footers.
They're used to Diamond tables with Simonis cloth. Predator ones are far inferior.
They're telling me that the corners are tight but have shallow shelves. And the cloth is mud.
And the side pockets seem to play easier due to shallow shelf.
I told them to shoot with a gentler stroke--- shallow shelves will gobble up slow roll "bobbles", unlike Diamond's deep shelves.
Problem is though, the tables play so slow they have to play with more firm strokes to move the whitey around.
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I played on the 7 footers, they are as good as anything, but play different to the Diamonds. Can't speak for the construction, but the speed, spin grip and pocketing is was fine. Pockets are a bit easier than 4.5" from Diamond, bank rebound angle splits the difference of GC and Diamond rails, cloth is slower than Simonis 860 but is not by what I would call slow, feels like broken in cloth. I actually liked the speed of the cloth, you can hit the ball without babying every shot or having to play an extra rail due to speed.

I'd say the tables are better than anything you would get outside of a Diamond or a GC; but there is the issue, there is no reason to pick them unless they are a good deal cheaper than those, which they are not.
 
9BallKY said:
I played at a room one time that had the Predator cloth and I didn’t really like it either.
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I played on them too.. my biggest complaint was the Predator cloth caused the cue ball to skid before rolling and also when I applied a nip draw or stun draw I couldn't get any action. The ball would just die. If I used a power draw, the ball would backspin in place and then zip back across the table. I could not control the drawstroke speed for shape.. maybe I'm just used to Championship 3030 or Simonis cloth..
 
I can't speak to the how the table plays becauseI haven't played on them, but my local room switched from Simonis 860 HR to Predator on 20 Diamond tables when Simonis was impossible to get due to the flooding.

They replace cloth every 6 months...

I find very little difference between the two cloths. When new, the predator seems to stay slick for a little bit longer, but beyond that they break in very similarly and speed and spin are so close that I seriously consider them to be interchangeable.
 
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