I'm curious if I'm holding the rear of the cue too far back. I've noticed that taller players (usually over 5,9) hold or even cup the back of cue on most shots and never hold the wrap. I've managed to become a good B+ shooter holding the back of the cue but would like to know if I'm cueing wrong or just need a longer cue.
Rear hand position on cue?
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I was watching a live steam a few days ago and the commentator made a observation and comment about many of the players gripping the cue at the butt and using a longer bridge. I tried it and actually found that my stroke was straighter and was easier to cue. I still kept the elbow bent on a 90 when the cue tip was near the CB but had a longer bridge length. This also helps with BH English for the pivot point.
Give to a try with some straight in shots. You may find that it is easier for you.
You still need to be able to adjust for some shots as all shots aren't the same and there may not be room for the long bridge. One stance, stroke, bridge and etc doesn't apply to every shot and fit all as some might like to teach or try to made you believe.
Give to a try with some straight in shots. You may find that it is easier for you.
You still need to be able to adjust for some shots as all shots aren't the same and there may not be room for the long bridge. One stance, stroke, bridge and etc doesn't apply to every shot and fit all as some might like to teach or try to made you believe.
My observation
Carlo Biado looks like a classic stand up player. to me. The current trend is down low on the shot. It seems to work for most of them. I am 6' 3" and like a 61" cue. Every one is different and I think most serious players go through subtle phases. Cue length, cue weight, balance, bridge length,etc.
Ya got me on what is best. The better the player, the more individual cue playing techniques seems to be factor as compared to cue shooting basics.
I think if you spend the majority of your time holding the butt of your cue on the end you should get a longer cue. Then again if your satisfied with your level of skill why change.
Carlo Biado looks like a classic stand up player. to me. The current trend is down low on the shot. It seems to work for most of them. I am 6' 3" and like a 61" cue. Every one is different and I think most serious players go through subtle phases. Cue length, cue weight, balance, bridge length,etc.
Ya got me on what is best. The better the player, the more individual cue playing techniques seems to be factor as compared to cue shooting basics.
I think if you spend the majority of your time holding the butt of your cue on the end you should get a longer cue. Then again if your satisfied with your level of skill why change.
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Basically the 90 degree rule is best practice and is likely the starting point for good fundamentals but some evolution will happen... Alex is the only pro I can think of that is greater than 90 at setup but there are quite a few who setup less than 90....
A player's size and a cue's balance will influence the grip and bridge pretty drastically and it may be detrimental to the proper bridge length for the shaft they use if BHE is employed...
A Tall player on the wrap will bend the bridge arm and make their footwork and actual bridge construction more important than most realize to create the same stability and consistency that a shorter player naturally gets from a straight bridge arm....
Once upon a time the cues were 57" and they keep getting longer as we keep getting taller.. If you grip right behind the balance point and cant create a decent bridge length with a straight arm you likely need to look at a longer cue...
There are lots of subtleties in the stroke and being on the end of the cue with your grip pretty much kills some of what you can do vs a neutral/balanced grip position...
I am 6'2" and grew up playing before the long cues showed up... I don't notice weight or balance because I am always on the end of a standard length cue with my grip with the entire weight of the cue ahead of my hand... I have no idea if the balance or weight are important but based on shorter players having concrete measurements for those things that they want and need in a cue I think I likely could have benefited from a longer cue when I was learning the game.....
A player's size and a cue's balance will influence the grip and bridge pretty drastically and it may be detrimental to the proper bridge length for the shaft they use if BHE is employed...
A Tall player on the wrap will bend the bridge arm and make their footwork and actual bridge construction more important than most realize to create the same stability and consistency that a shorter player naturally gets from a straight bridge arm....
Once upon a time the cues were 57" and they keep getting longer as we keep getting taller.. If you grip right behind the balance point and cant create a decent bridge length with a straight arm you likely need to look at a longer cue...
There are lots of subtleties in the stroke and being on the end of the cue with your grip pretty much kills some of what you can do vs a neutral/balanced grip position...
I am 6'2" and grew up playing before the long cues showed up... I don't notice weight or balance because I am always on the end of a standard length cue with my grip with the entire weight of the cue ahead of my hand... I have no idea if the balance or weight are important but based on shorter players having concrete measurements for those things that they want and need in a cue I think I likely could have benefited from a longer cue when I was learning the game.....
A friend of mine had a cue made by Richard Black. He told him what weight and balance pointed he wanted. He got the cue back and both were off. He called Richard as he wasn't happy. Richard asked if he tried the cue and if it felt good. My friend said yeah that he did try it and it felt good. Richard then told him not to worry about it and just play with it.
This same guy decided that he wanted a Hercek. He bought one at the Derby and before he shot one rack he had both shafts turned down to 11.5 mm by one of the cue repair vendors and had the wrap changed. I told him that he was crazy and tired to talk him out of doing that. That was one of the worst cues I ever tried. I was with him at the LPH when he was showing off his cue. Many tired it and none were impressed. They all made the same comment that the cue didn't feel right and couldn't see the fascination with a Hercek. He rarely played with it and ended up trading it back with a loss to a vendor.
As you stated about cues. Most of our standards for cues, stances and etc come from the pro players of years past. We have changed and many players have developed their own style. It is just best to try many different styles and use what works for you and not one all fits all.
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Find your Ape Index and your body Gait.
Your arm will feel like a waterfall cascading down a mountain, a beautiful flow, the jagged rocks become smooth.
Your legs, back, arms, and core, will work as a Ballet Dancer.
I would advise against wearing spandex unless you are in fantastic physical condition.
The feel is natural, it doesn't feel forced or quirky, and the cue ball glides along.
Cue delivery is a thing of beauty and more natural when the body is tuned properly, a smooth delivery for any shot, stroke, and speed is easier to achieve when your planets are in alignment.
There are reasons why it's easy to watch some players, or having electroshock watching others, including top players, some are brutal to watch.
Your arm will find its place, it's easy to learn.
Sincerely: SS
Your arm will feel like a waterfall cascading down a mountain, a beautiful flow, the jagged rocks become smooth.
Your legs, back, arms, and core, will work as a Ballet Dancer.
I would advise against wearing spandex unless you are in fantastic physical condition.
The feel is natural, it doesn't feel forced or quirky, and the cue ball glides along.
Cue delivery is a thing of beauty and more natural when the body is tuned properly, a smooth delivery for any shot, stroke, and speed is easier to achieve when your planets are in alignment.
There are reasons why it's easy to watch some players, or having electroshock watching others, including top players, some are brutal to watch.
Your arm will find its place, it's easy to learn.
Sincerely: SS
I dunno if it's due to a lack of dedication, or what, but I've never seen a player
voluntarily change their natural grip position, and stick to it forever.
They try something new and revert, probably without even thinking about it.
It's just where their hand naturally falls.
My thinking is... hand position is not something that should be forced,
it will fall naturally somewhere based on the rest of your stance,
and the length of your arms.
So if you suspect your back hand position is weird, it really means some other part
of your stance is off, and the back hand is just adapting to that stance issue.
Before looking at the back hand, I'd look at my feet, how much I bend at the waist,
how much my body is turned sideways, and maybe the length of my bridge.
I would imagine if you're gripping that far back, your bridge must therefore be really long.
You could try basically shifting everything a few inches.
Grip hand forward 3 inches, bridge forward 3 inches.
You might also just see if your arms are unusually long. A typical arm length
is for your arm span to be exactly your height, or maybe 1-2 inches longer.
If you've got more than 3 inches then you got ape arms.
That would mean it's normal for your grip hand to fall further back.
PS: You might try a longer cue... SVB and Earl seem to believe it helps them shoot straighter.
If there's any truth to that, and you can add a few inches in back without the cue feeling weird,
then you can get that benefit for free, and probably won't need the bridge as often either.
to
voluntarily change their natural grip position, and stick to it forever.
They try something new and revert, probably without even thinking about it.
It's just where their hand naturally falls.
My thinking is... hand position is not something that should be forced,
it will fall naturally somewhere based on the rest of your stance,
and the length of your arms.
So if you suspect your back hand position is weird, it really means some other part
of your stance is off, and the back hand is just adapting to that stance issue.
Before looking at the back hand, I'd look at my feet, how much I bend at the waist,
how much my body is turned sideways, and maybe the length of my bridge.
I would imagine if you're gripping that far back, your bridge must therefore be really long.
You could try basically shifting everything a few inches.
Grip hand forward 3 inches, bridge forward 3 inches.
You might also just see if your arms are unusually long. A typical arm length
is for your arm span to be exactly your height, or maybe 1-2 inches longer.
If you've got more than 3 inches then you got ape arms.
That would mean it's normal for your grip hand to fall further back.
PS: You might try a longer cue... SVB and Earl seem to believe it helps them shoot straighter.
If there's any truth to that, and you can add a few inches in back without the cue feeling weird,
then you can get that benefit for free, and probably won't need the bridge as often either.
to
this is the correct answer imho
I was watching a live steam a few days ago and the commentator made a observation and comment about many of the players gripping the cue at the butt and using a longer bridge. I tried it and actually found that my stroke was straighter and was easier to cue. I still kept the elbow bent on a 90 when the cue tip was near the CB but had a longer bridge length. This also helps with BH English for the pivot point.
Give to a try with some straight in shots. You may find that it is easier for you.
You still need to be able to adjust for some shots as all shots aren't the same and there may not be room for the long bridge. One stance, stroke, bridge and etc doesn't apply to every shot and fit all as some might like to teach or try to made you believe.
I've tried this too... having more to aim with must help some. I don't have long arms, so I'm still gripping in the grip area, bu I do have a longer bridge now.
John Parker (Cuemaker) & I developed a chart for determining good cue length for yourself. Try it, you might like it
