Received my Pro 1/CTE DVD today

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I know the steps better than you do. Most importantly, I know where the "steps" end and the seat-of-the-pants flying begins - something you refuse to learn.

pj
chgo

Then why don't you tell us where that is? Preferably with video.

Go ahead we are waiting.................

and waiting................

and still waiting.................
 

champ2107

Banned
Then why don't you tell us where that is? Preferably with video.

Go ahead we are waiting.................

and waiting................

and still waiting.................

not going to happen! he will just come back with some sarcastic post, you know the drill.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Me:
...I know where the "steps" end and the seat-of-the-pants flying begins
John:
Then why don't you tell us where that is?
I've said many times - it's where "obtaining the visual" comes in.

Preferably with video.
LOL. Nothing shows more clearly how clueless you guys are than your constant harping on videos as evidence of anything. No video any of you has ever posted has proved anything but that and your own misplaced vanity.

pj
chgo
 

champ2107

Banned
I've said many times - it's where "obtaining the visual" comes in.


LOL. Nothing shows more clearly how clueless you guys are than your constant harping on videos as evidence of anything. No video any of you has ever posted has proved anything but that and your own misplaced vanity.

pj
chgo

you claim you want to know and that you do know,etc and we are all clueless, can you start posting in just a lil bit more detail instead of the 1,2 or 3 word answer and then fill the rest of your posts up with your normal bs? are you really that scared we will all find out your true knowledge, does it really mean that much to you and you would rather keep a silly debate going for years that can be ended in a day?
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
I talked with Johnny at length about this in China. Johnny has his own way of aiming that is systematic in nature. By this I mean he sights the same way each time and slides into the shot with the bridge hand and tip addressing the ball where he wants to hit it.

All aiming that works is systematic in nature isn't it?
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
All aiming that works is systematic in nature isn't it?

I would say so if you do the same thing each time and you aren't guessing until you can't stand it any more.

What I meant was that Johnny has a specific routine that he follows when sighting the shot and getting down on it. It's not a system per se in the vein that we speak of systems here but he does pretty much the same thing each time so that he can instantly get down on the shot.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I've said many times - it's where "obtaining the visual" comes in.

Really? So in your mind this is where someone is guessing? So it's not possible for a person to align themselves to an edge line and a secondary line consistently without guessing? Because that's what obtaining the visual means. It means that you look for the secondary line and align to it. That is a very specific instruction.

In Ghost ball the instruction is to find the center of the GB and align to it. So if you COULD see a real object as in a real ball where the GB is then you could definitely align to it more accurately than if there is not a real object there.

Thus using the real and existing object ball to align to certainly leads to accurate visuals and body alignments. Nothing to do with guessing.

LOL. Nothing shows more clearly how clueless you guys are than your constant harping on videos as evidence of anything. No video any of you has ever posted has proved anything but that and your own misplaced vanity.

Unless I am lying they prove that I get on the shot with the same exact steps for each shot regardless of position.

I mean you COULD do a video and show us all EXACTLY where you think guessing is happening. But you won't. Because then you would be forced to admit on video that the system is accurate and works as advertised by those of us who use it.

Nothing shows that you are clueless more than you saying that the methods are worthless and not worth investing the time to learn BUT that you know exactly how they work even though you have never used them.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
I would say so if you do the same thing each time and you aren't guessing until you can't stand it any more.

What I meant was that Johnny has a specific routine that he follows when sighting the shot and getting down on it. It's not a system per se in the vein that we speak of systems here but he does pretty much the same thing each time so that he can instantly get down on the shot.

That was also my understanding. Like I said, I do it almost exactly the same. He's just way better at it. Just like Nascar drivers have the same controls I do, but are better at it.
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That was also my understanding. Like I said, I do it almost exactly the same. He's just way better at it. Just like Nascar drivers have the same controls I do, but are better at it.

But, but....If you had a clear description of a viable/exact method of aiming, you would be better for it.:thumbup:
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
But, but....If you had a clear description of a viable/exact method of aiming, you would be better for it.:thumbup:

I agree and I'm trying hard. It's very elusive for me right now though.
 

JAW725

Southpaw
Silver Member
I know the steps better than you do. Most importantly, I know where the "steps" end and the seat-of-the-pants flying begins - something you refuse to learn.

pj
chgo

Then it's by far the greatest system for leading the sub-conscious and that sir is powerful :thumbup:
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Really? So in your mind this is where someone is guessing? So it's not possible for a person to align themselves to an edge line and a secondary line consistently without guessing? Because that's what obtaining the visual means. It means that you look for the secondary line and align to it. That is a very specific instruction.

In Ghost ball the instruction is to find the center of the GB and align to it. So if you COULD see a real object as in a real ball where the GB is then you could definitely align to it more accurately than if there is not a real object there.

Thus using the real and existing object ball to align to certainly leads to accurate visuals and body alignments. Nothing to do with guessing.

That sounds logical John but it isn't at this point my experience. Points A and C are not exact in CTE and must be estimated as surely as a 1/4 and 3/4 ball fractional hit must be. This becomes increasingly difficult for me as the distance of the shot increases. When I shoot a 1/4 ball shot to the left, I am aiming essentially at point B of the ghost ball if you think about it. I find this spot just as easy to visualize as the same spot on a real ball. You must recognize the distance off the edge of the object ball your aiming at just as you must recognize that subjective spot for your secondary line at point B using CTE. And it really doesn't seem much harder with ghost or real ball. Not trying to start more shit, that's just how I see it.
 
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LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That sounds logical John but it isn't at this point my experience. Points A and C are not exact in CTE and must be estimated as surely as a 1/4 and 3/4 ball fractional hit must be. This becomes increasingly difficult for me as the distance of the shot increases. When I shoot a 1/4 ball shot to the left, I am aiming essentially at point C of the ghost ball if you think about it. I find this spot just as easy to visualize as the same spot on a real ball. You must recognize the distance off the edge of the object ball your aiming at just as you must recognize that subjective spot for your secondary line at point C using CTE. And it really doesn't seem much harder with ghost or real ball. Not trying to start more shit, that's just how I see it.

A very astute observation shared by many in academia.

Perspectinve , vanishing point, converging lines of sight and parallax confuse the issue of aiming at a progressivly smaller OB diameter as it is down table.

The center of the cue, the side of the ferrule, the edge of the CB, the edge and fraction of the OB are tangible and are components of aiming that are compensated for by the fact that the OB appears smaller and the fractions appear to be closer together.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
That sounds logical John but it isn't at this point my experience. Points A and C are not exact in CTE and must be estimated as surely as a 1/4 and 3/4 ball fractional hit must be. This becomes increasingly difficult for me as the distance of the shot increases. When I shoot a 1/4 ball shot to the left, I am aiming essentially at point B of the ghost ball if you think about it. I find this spot just as easy to visualize as the same spot on a real ball. You must recognize the distance off the edge of the object ball your aiming at just as you must recognize that subjective spot for your secondary line at point B using CTE. And it really doesn't seem much harder with ghost or real ball. Not trying to start more shit, that's just how I see it.

With practice you can mentally divide a ball at any distance on the table. The major advantage is that you are looking at a solid object to practice on.

If I said to you point your cue at the a point sand turned on a laser pointer to see how close you got I would bet that you would be pretty close right now and after a fewe weeks you would be +- a mm. Do there same with gb center and I think you would be off more than that more often.
 

berko

Aggressively passive
Silver Member
Just ordered the DVD.

I would put myself squarely in the skeptic camp but will give it an honest go, like Metmot.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
JB Cases:
So it's not possible for a person to align themselves to an edge line and a secondary line consistently without guessing? Because that's what obtaining the visual means. It means that you look for the secondary line and align to it. That is a very specific instruction.
No, it's not - as Stan himself has said in recent posts. But let's ignore what Stan says for now...

If you use CB edge-to-OB fractions as your "visual" (that's what you're saying), then you're limiting yourself to something like four visuals times two pivots (left or right) to cover every shot on the table - which is clearly impossible.

So if you're right about the "visual", all you've done is kick the estimating can one step down the road - to the "pivot". Take your pick.

pj
chgo
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PJ, It's visuals. And you know that's what it is. 2 lines!!!!!for any and ALL CTESHOTS.
I I do NOT teach 1 line.
Stop twisting what I say, please.
Stan Shuffett
 

champ2107

Banned
No, it's not - as Stan himself has said in recent posts. But let's ignore what Stan says for now...

If you use CB edge-to-OB fractions as your "visual" (that's what you're saying), then you're limiting yourself to something like four visuals times two pivots (left or right) to cover every shot on the table - which is clearly impossible.

So if you're right about the "visual", all you've done is kick the estimating can one step down the road - to the "pivot". Take your pick.

pj
chgo

i off this week so i have time :)

now for every shot on the table there would actually be 8 visuals and actually 14 total pivots available.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
PJ, It's visuals. And you know that's what it is. 2 lines!!!!!for any and ALL CTESHOTS.
I I do NOT teach 1 line.
Stop twisting what I say, please.
Stan Shuffett
I said you do not teach that the secondary aim line is "the visual". Are you now saying you do teach that the secondary aim line is "the visual"?

Maybe it's you who should stop misrepresenting what I say...

pj
chgo
 

champ2107

Banned
I said you do not teach that the secondary aim line is "the visual". Are you now saying you do teach that the secondary aim line is "the visual"?

Maybe it's you who should stop misrepresenting what I say...

pj
chgo

stan teaches that there are two vision lines and these two lines have different functions.
 
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