Recommended SIMONIS install techniques

K2Kraze

K2Kraze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For those mechanics or forum members familiar with the Simonis installation DVDs that Glen helped put together a few years ago, can anyone chime in regarding how close they recommend the staples be placed on the rails and bed cloth for best performance AND to make sure no wrinkled cloth shows up or pulling occurs?

How about tightness of the cloth over the slate?

How do you get any uniformity in the tension other than just yanking on it and relying upon muscle memory to get the "correct" tension?

Is it possible to pull too tight and get stretch marks in the cloth?

One last question --- is there a time period to allow the cloth to "settle down" and assume its final position and tension before I can place spots or cloth marks?

This is in reference to Simonis 860 by the way. Not 860HR.

Oh - and these are post-install questions from a team a few days ago with issues showing up or still there that assured me they were familiar with all of the recommended procedures from Simonis. Let's find out to help me determine my follow up this coming week :-)

Thanks, everyone!
 
K2Kraze said:
For those mechanics or forum members familiar with the Simonis installation DVDs that Glen helped put together a few years ago, can anyone chime in regarding how close they recommend the staples be placed on the rails and bed cloth for best performance AND to make sure no wrinkled cloth shows up or pulling occurs?

How about tightness of the cloth over the slate?

How do you get any uniformity in the tension other than just yanking on it and relying upon muscle memory to get the "correct" tension?

Is it possible to pull too tight and get stretch marks in the cloth?

One last question --- is there a time period to allow the cloth to "settle down" and assume its final position and tension before I can place spots or cloth marks?

This is in reference to Simonis 860 by the way. Not 860HR.

Oh - and these are post-install questions from a team a few days ago with issues showing up or still there that assured me they were familiar with all of the recommended procedures from Simonis. Let's find out to help me determine my follow up this coming week :-)

Thanks, everyone!
Click to expand...

Sir,

All of the questions you asked are clearly demonstrated in the Simonis DVDs. If your installers did not mark the sides of the bed cloth with indexing measurements before applying the bed cloth, then I can assure you they did NOT follow the instructions and procedures Simonis recommends!

The slacking of the pockets, the tension of the bed cloth stretch, the avoidance of stretch shadows, closing of the pockets and finishing of the pockets with trimmed cuffs are very explicit and detailed.

The covering of the rails clearly shows how the rail cloth is to be installed, attached and trimmed on both feather stripped rails and bar table rails with glued edges.

To answer your questions. The staples are spaced at 3/4 of an inch along the edges of the slate frames, closer almost touching at the anchor and stretch points next to the pockets. 2... The tension of the stretch is determined by the stretch index, 1.5- 2.25 inches on a 9ft table. 3... Yes you can over stretch the cloth and cause deformities and shadows. The bed cloth should be installed in a rectangular fashion. 4... No such thing as a "settling down" period. If you were told this by your installer, consider getting a new installer, or purchase a set of the DVDs, watch them and make sure your installer follows the process as demonstrated.

From what you described, your installer has never watched or familiarized himself with the Simonis installation DVDs. Furthermore, it sounds like he's using his own process to install Simonis cloth, then making up some nonsense about settling in periods.

Buy a set of the DVDs for your own peace of mind and you'll have a standard by which to verify your installers know how.

Jay
 
I'm not a mechanic but I bought the DVD's he's talking about and it was worth every penny AND I did the work myself.If you follow the instructions,you will be impressed at how good of a job you can do by yourself or with a friend if need be,

best money I ever spent on ANY dvd!!!
 
^^^^^^^^^
I agree with both of the above replies.
When I questioned possible installers about the Simonis stretch index and they had no idea what I was talking about I knew they were not going to be doing the cloth on my table.
 
Really appreciate the feedback and recommendations, everyone!

I'll have the DVD set sent out tomorrow 2-day delivery and make sure the next install is done right. I'll supervise this time with notes --- reminds me of a saying I heard many time growing up: do you want it done - or do you want it done right? Unbelievable that I was told these guys were familiar with every recommended Simonis install procedure.

Thanks again!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I was talking with an installer recently. He said that Ray showed him how to install the cloth with the marks but that he has installed so many that he no longer marks the cloth. It takes to much time.

I will say that his install looks very good and the Simonis writing on the cloth looked very even before he cut off the excess.
 
jtompilot said:
I was talking with an installer recently. He said that Ray showed him how to install the cloth with the marks but that he has installed so many that he no longer marks the cloth. It takes to much time.

I will say that his install looks very good and the Simonis writing on the cloth looked very even before he cut off the excess.
Click to expand...

It takes 3 minutes to mark the cloth. I just timed it. It is next to impossible to be as accurate with your pull without having a consistent line or mark to follow to. That is my 2 cents.....
 
PoolTable911 said:
It takes 3 minutes to mark the cloth. I just timed it. It is next to impossible to be as accurate with your pull without having a consistent line or mark to follow to. That is my 2 cents.....
Click to expand...



Thanks for the follow up comments on marking the cloth!

The DVDs will be here WED so I can watch both and take notes so I can "see" exactly what you are referring to. I agree 100% and can certainly appreciate doing things exact to yield the same results.

Another mechanic passed along to me the other day that anytime an installer takes a shortcut, something is getting "cut" out to make the process "shorter" - neither of which is necessary or suggested if precision is the goal.

Thanks for the replies, everyone!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
jtompilot said:
I was talking with an installer recently. He said that Ray showed him how to install the cloth with the marks but that he has installed so many that he no longer marks the cloth. It takes to much time.

I will say that his install looks very good and the Simonis writing on the cloth looked very even before he cut off the excess.
Click to expand...

I've been installing cloth with this method longer than anyone has....and I still mark out my cloth for stretch:rolleyes:
 
Glen --- the Simonis DVD you made shows the side stretch index to be the max stretch minus 3/4" but the length-wise stretch to be 100% max pull. Do YOU do the length pull that way or mark it somehow like the side to side indexing? How can you get an "even" pull if you don't index or mark it? Or doesn't it matter because it's pulled the max it will go?


LIVFST
 
K2Kraze said:
Glen --- the Simonis DVD you made shows the side stretch index to be the max stretch minus 3/4" but the length-wise stretch to be 100% max pull. Do YOU do the length pull that way or mark it somehow like the side to side indexing? How can you get an "even" pull if you don't index or mark it? Or doesn't it matter because it's pulled the max it will go?


LIVFST
Click to expand...

When you stretch the first end, there is way more movement on the cloth close to where you're pulling from, but the movement declines as its pulled down through the center of the cloth to the far end of the slate. As you stretch the first end, watch the far end, as you see it move/pull towards you about an inch, anchor the end you just pulled. Then go to the other end and pull as hard as you can, then anchor that end, finish off that end. Then go back to the first end and finish off that end. You can't give a measurement to mark out when both ends of the cloth are free to move at first. I hope this helps with an explanation.

Glen
 
Yes, it makes sense now after I just went back and watched the DVD again.

Basically, in a nut shell of sorts, you are marking the "stretch index" side to side and doing that stapling/anchoring first, closing the side pockets and then doing a "max stretch" end to end the way you said in the previous forum reply - and demonstrated in the video.

Separate, but related question --- why is the side to side "stretch index" (which is 3/4" less than maximum stretch) used to obtain an equal cloth tension, but we use a "maximum stretch" end to end? Is it due to the fact this is the best way to ensure no wrinkled cloth around the side pockets that were already closed in?

You make it look so easy in the DVD btw :-D

Thanks!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
K2Kraze said:
Yes, it makes sense now after I just went back and watched the DVD again.

Basically, in a nut shell of sorts, you are marking the "stretch index" side to side and doing that stapling/anchoring first, closing the side pockets and then doing a "max stretch" end to end the way you said in the previous forum reply - and demonstrated in the video.

Separate, but related question --- why is the side to side "stretch index" (which is 3/4" less than maximum stretch) used to obtain an equal cloth tension, but we use a "maximum stretch" end to end? Is it due to the fact this is the best way to ensure no wrinkled cloth around the side pockets that were already closed in?

You make it look so easy in the DVD btw :-D

Thanks!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Because that's how you avoid the stretch shadows showing up in the side to side stretch.
 
Install

K2Kraze said:
Really appreciate the feedback and recommendations, everyone!

I'll have the DVD set sent out tomorrow 2-day delivery and make sure the next install is done right. I'll supervise this time with notes --- reminds me of a saying I heard many time growing up: do you want it done - or do you want it done right? Unbelievable that I was told these guys were familiar with every recommended Simonis install procedure.

Thanks again!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

Unless your having Shane Johnson (Cuephoric) install this time I would ensure your guy has recommendations and examples of their work. Shane's is all over the DFW area.
 
PoolTable911 said:
It takes 3 minutes to mark the cloth. I just timed it. It is next to impossible to be as accurate with your pull without having a consistent line or mark to follow to. That is my 2 cents.....
Click to expand...

Your 2 cents is now worth 3 cents :thumbup:
 
K2Kraze said:
the Simonis DVD you made shows the side stretch index to be the max stretch minus 3/4"
LIVFST
Click to expand...

As I recall my Simonis DVD just gave me a measurement for side to side stretch index, I thought it was 1 1/2" but I am not sure, it has been almost 3 years since I watched my DVD and did my bed cloth. I only bought 1 DVD because I had my rails done by a mechanic out of state so I never saw the rail DVD, I did not think it was necessary since I was not doing any rails.
 
fastone371 said:
As I recall my Simonis DVD just gave me a measurement for side to side stretch index, I thought it was 1 1/2" but I am not sure, it has been almost 3 years since I watched my DVD and did my bed cloth. I only bought 1 DVD because I had my rails done by a mechanic out of state so I never saw the rail DVD, I did not think it was necessary since I was not doing any rails.
Click to expand...

Fastone ---- the simonis DVD actually demonstrates how to find your "stretch index" by clamping the one side and then doing a max pull (and marking that spot on the cloth where it touches the slate) the relaxing it and now measuring from the slate edge to the spot .... Says it "should be some where between 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" or something like that. THEN, you take that stretch number (say 2 1/4" inches from the slate to your relaxed and marked stretch spot) and subtract 3/4" to get the exact "stretch index" for your table and your cloth. In this example it will be 2 1/4" minus 3/4" so
1 1/2" -- That's the number to mark the stretch side from one side rail. You don't use a "stretch index" or marks for stretching the cloth end to end --- that's covered a few minutes later in the DVD :-)




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
K2Kraze said:
For those mechanics or forum members familiar with the Simonis installation DVDs that Glen helped put together a few years ago, can anyone chime in regarding how close they recommend the staples be placed on the rails and bed cloth for best performance AND to make sure no wrinkled cloth shows up or pulling occurs?

How about tightness of the cloth over the slate?

How do you get any uniformity in the tension other than just yanking on it and relying upon muscle memory to get the "correct" tension?

Is it possible to pull too tight and get stretch marks in the cloth?

One last question --- is there a time period to allow the cloth to "settle down" and assume its final position and tension before I can place spots or cloth marks?

This is in reference to Simonis 860 by the way. Not 860HR.

Oh - and these are post-install questions from a team a few days ago with issues showing up or still there that assured me they were familiar with all of the recommended procedures from Simonis. Let's find out to help me determine my follow up this coming week :-)

Thanks, everyone!
Click to expand...
My guess would be seybert.com
 
Thank you good sir. I did a Google search last nite and all that came up for me was simonis Web site. Thanks again.
 
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