Reducing chatter?

P

pip9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi everyone,

I have a cue companion lathe and am experiencing alot of chatter while turning down an ivorine 3 ferrule. I've tried new bits and different speed variations but I cannot seem to eliminate this.

Could it be possible the chatter is due to a lack of tailstock applying pressure to the ferrule so it can't be pushed off axis?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Phillip
 
Ivorine III is too hard.
I suggest using a carbide tipped parting tool first then when you get close to final size, use a single point.
 
thanks for the info. do you know where I can find such a tool that will fit the cue companion?

Thanks,

Phillip
 
Thanks Joey! I'll contact Chris to place an order.

So do I use the cutoff tool similar to the single point? Is there a certain angle the parting tool needs to be relative to the ferrule?

Thanks,

Phillip
 
Ivorine

Did you first slide the shaft deep into the chuck so very little of the wood shaft is exposed? When cutting something very hard it is best to keep what is hanging out of the chuck to a minimum. If you have a cupped concave live center you can support the end of the ferrule as well to reduce flex, then cut that last little bit that was covered by the concave center last. And as mentioned earlier use sharp carbide. I have the same lathe and use it for tournaments. It can perform well with some planning.
 
Yes, I only have a very small amount of wood coming out of the chuck. How do you use a concave live center with the cue companion? The tailstock is fixed to the feed?

Thanks,

Phillip
 
pip9ball said:
Thanks Joey! I'll contact Chris to place an order.

So do I use the cutoff tool similar to the single point? Is there a certain angle the parting tool needs to be relative to the ferrule?

Thanks,

Phillip
Click to expand...

Give it some chip clearance. At least 5 degrees to the left.
As suggested by Olson, chuck up the ferrule as close to the chuck as possible. Drill a center hole and support it with a pointed live center.
 
Unfortunately I don't think I can use a live or concave center with this lathe as the tailstock moves with the feed :-(
 
tailstock

I had made a tailstock for my companion a few years ago. I looked for it and cannot find it. Basically it was a threaded rod with a bearing and cup mounted on the end. I only use that machine at tournaments anymore so it does not get a lot of use nowadays. Sorry, i forgot that I had modified it. WHen I do Tourneys (only small local events) I do mostly tips and shaft cleanings. But if you look closely at the companion you will see that the aluminum bar that holds the rails in place can easily hold a another block that can be machined without too much trouble.
 
Head Stock Play

Hi,

I own 8 lathes in my shop of various shapes and sizes. I own a cue companion and it was the first lathe I owned for doing tips at my pool hall.
I think the cue companion is a great little machine and I still use it for putting on all my tips because I can put my hand right over the spinning chuck without and danger of getting nicked by it. I also love the tipalator for centering the tip and gluing same.

The headstock on the cue companion has play in it and doing ferrules requires a little help from your finger pressure on the back side. The tool pressure deflects even a short section of shaft that hangs out even when taking slight cuts. The spring loaded split collet is a great concept for a cue repair lathe but you have to learn to apply pressure to the back side of the ferrule with your finger to reduce the chatter or get a clean leather cut.

When you are cutting a tip or ferrule, rest your hand on the chuck bearing journal and use your left index finger to defect the shaft towards you when you are getting close to matching the leather to the ferrule material or ferrule to shaft wood. By doing this you can control this spring pass and it helps you to never hit the ferrule while getting the dimension almost perfect before the final sanding or burnishing.

Today I cut all my ferrules on a lathe with a six jaw chuck as these chucks have zero deflection and you can dial in .001 if you want. The cue companion is more of a touch and feel skill set to master. Joey is right about the harder material but with the applied back pressure of your finger it can cut ferrule and do a pro job.

I love the cue companion because Brian designed a basic piece of equipment that has a chuck that will never hurt you and if you approach it in the right mind set, the deflection issue in the headstock is in my opinion a greater attribute than a hindrance because you can spring the shaft with your hand a millimeter from the chuck running at thousands of rpm. Try that with a Taig Chuck.

Rick Geschrey
 
pip9ball said:
Hi everyone,

I have a cue companion lathe and am experiencing alot of chatter while turning down an ivorine 3 ferrule. I've tried new bits and different speed variations but I cannot seem to eliminate this.

Could it be possible the chatter is due to a lack of tailstock applying pressure to the ferrule so it can't be pushed off axis?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Phillip
Click to expand...
I don't really know much about the lathe you are using but when you get chatter it is often because you are using the wrong grind on the tool. If the tool is scrapping rather then cutting you get chatter. The tool needs to be ground so it cuts with the front edge of the tool only as you make a pass.
 
Thanks for all the tips guys! I'll try applying a bit of pressure to see if that helps. I've tried various cutting tools (all new) and while some produce less chatter than others, I still have it.

I wonder if Jim @ unique sells a tailstock block? I don't have access to a mill so I can't make one myself.

-Phillip
 
Tighten down the screw on the bracket that holds the chuck, almost to the point where it is noisy. This gets rid of most of the lateral movement of the shaft. I only do this when I am doing ferrules that cut like rock.

Also, on the carriage, are some set screws that can be adjusted to take out most of the play and movement of the tool bit. It will still have a little movement as it is not that heavy duty. This helps a tad, but no where near what tightening up the chuck accomplishes.
 
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

I own 8 lathes in my shop of various shapes and sizes. I own a cue companion and it was the first lathe I owned for doing tips at my pool hall.
I think the cue companion is a great little machine and I still use it for putting on all my tips because I can put my hand right over the spinning chuck without and danger of getting nicked by it. I also love the tipalator for centering the tip and gluing same.

The headstock on the cue companion has play in it and doing ferrules requires a little help from your finger pressure on the back side. The tool pressure deflects even a short section of shaft that hangs out even when taking slight cuts. The spring loaded split collet is a great concept for a cue repair lathe but you have to learn to apply pressure to the back side of the ferrule with your finger to reduce the chatter or get a clean leather cut.

When you are cutting a tip or ferrule, rest your hand on the chuck bearing journal and use your left index finger to defect the shaft towards you when you are getting close to matching the leather to the ferrule material or ferrule to shaft wood. By doing this you can control this spring pass and it helps you to never hit the ferrule while getting the dimension almost perfect before the final sanding or burnishing.

Today I cut all my ferrules on a lathe with a six jaw chuck as these chucks have zero deflection and you can dial in .001 if you want. The cue companion is more of a touch and feel skill set to master. Joey is right about the harder material but with the applied back pressure of your finger it can cut ferrule and do a pro job.

I love the cue companion because Brian designed a basic piece of equipment that has a chuck that will never hurt you and if you approach it in the right mind set, the deflection issue in the headstock is in my opinion a greater attribute than a hindrance because you can spring the shaft with your hand a millimeter from the chuck running at thousands of rpm. Try that with a Taig Chuck.

Rick Geschrey
Click to expand...

"The headstock on the cue companion has play in it and doing ferrules requires a little help from your finger pressure on the back side. The tool pressure deflects even a short section of shaft that hangs out even when taking slight cuts. The spring loaded split collet is a great concept for a cue repair lathe but you have to learn to apply pressure to the back side of the ferrule with your finger to reduce the chatter or get a clean leather cut. "

LOL!!! And people get upset when I call these small lathes "Toy lathes". If the machinery is so loose and needs the operator to have such artistic endeavors and athletic skills to get the thing to function in a half accurate way why not just use a drill and a machete to install the tips. A person could probably get that technique down pretty well also but for a lot less money.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
"The headstock on the cue companion has play in it and doing ferrules requires a little help from your finger pressure on the back side. The tool pressure deflects even a short section of shaft that hangs out even when taking slight cuts. The spring loaded split collet is a great concept for a cue repair lathe but you have to learn to apply pressure to the back side of the ferrule with your finger to reduce the chatter or get a clean leather cut. "

LOL!!! And people get upset when I call these small lathes "Toy lathes". If the machinery is so loose and needs the operator to have such artistic endeavors and athletic skills to get the thing to function in a half accurate way why not just use a drill and a machete to install the tips. A person could probably get that technique down pretty well also but for a lot less money.

Dick
Click to expand...

Dick,

These lathes are not for building cues and are powered by a rubber o-ring for driving the headstock. When I first bought mine I was making over
$ 20,000.00 per year doing tips, cleaning shafts, cutting small tenons, drilling dowel holes, and putting on ferrules with this toy with no other machines in my shop.

There is no way to dial in a dimension, it's a touch and feel kind of skill you can acquire with more of a hand eye coordination. In some respects you can call it a toy lathe but what is wrong with that. As I said, I have 8 lathes in my shop and because of the cue companion's ability to spring pass the cuts by deflecting the shaft a little I can control my carbide cutting tool with by hand right on top of the chuck without ever worrying about nicking myself. To me that's pretty awesome.

The guy who started this thread had a very good question concerning his equipment concerning chatter. I don't think it is constructive to attack his equipment. I could have told him to take and ax to it and buy a 14 X 40 Clauseing and the chatter would go away. Since I had over 7 years of experience with this toy lathe that bankrolled over $ 75,000.00 worth of equipment in my shop, I thought that I would weigh in to give him my thoughts.

I don't care what equipment I have in my shop, I will always use my toy lathe to put on tips because it is so convenient and safe and I love the tipalator for centering and glue the tips. Brian at Unique Products engineered a nice little rig.

Rick Geschrey
 
scdiveteam said:
Dick,

These lathes are not for building cues and are powered by a rubber o-ring for driving the headstock. When I first bought mine I was making over
$ 20,000.00 per year doing tips, cleaning shafts, cutting small tenons, drilling dowel holes, and putting on ferrules with this toy with no other machines in my shop.

There is no way to dial in a dimension, it's a touch and feel kind of skill you can acquire with more of a hand eye coordination. In some respects you can call it a toy lathe but what is wrong with that. As I said, I have 8 lathes in my shop and because of the cue companion's ability to spring pass the cuts by deflecting the shaft a little I can control my carbide cutting tool with by hand right on top of the chuck without ever worrying about nicking myself. To me that's pretty awesome.

The guy who started this thread had a very good question concerning his equipment concerning chatter. I don't think it is constructive to attack his equipment. I could have told him to take and ax to it and buy a 14 X 40 Clauseing and the chatter would go away. Since I had over 7 years of experience with this toy lathe that bankrolled over $ 75,000.00 worth of equipment in my shop, I thought that I would weigh in to give him my thoughts.

I don't care what equipment I have in my shop, I will always use my toy lathe to put on tips because it is so convenient and safe and I love the tipalator for centering and glue the tips. Brian at Unique Products engineered a nice little rig.

Rick Geschrey
Click to expand...

And just how many ferrules, shafts or other parts have you had to replace for free over the years by needing to do the touchy feelly thing trying to get any accuracy? Like I said, you can also put on tips with a hatchet if you practice enough. Something sold should be able to do what it is designed to do, such as installing tips and do it accurately. I sure can't understand why you would use this piece of equipment if you have other, accurate, equipment in your shop. Truthfully, it doesn't sound like a toy but more like junk.

Dick
 
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