Replacing floating rail nuts - gold crown 3

caff3in3

caff3in3

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey all,

My gold crown has some of the floating rail nuts in the rails spinning and will not take a bolt and I am looking to repair or replace them. I was not aware of this until I recently had the cloth replaced on it. There are 2 of the nuts with a bolt partially threaded and every time a shot hits that rail the washer makes some noise. I am trying to get the guy who installed the cloth to at least remove the two bolts as I am afraid they may be stuck in the nut and the nut is just spinning. There are also other spots where the bolts are not there at all and apparently the nut is just spinning.

My questions are:

1. How difficult is it to replace or fix the broken nuts in the rails? Should I be able to do the job myself? I do not believe there are any bolts broken off in the nuts.
2. How much would be a fair rate for a table mechanic to do this if I decide to pay someone locally? There are probably 5 that will need to be done.
3. Is it much more work to do all of them if it is apart anyways?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
caff3in3 said:
Hey all,

My gold crown has some of the floating rail nuts in the rails spinning and will not take a bolt and I am looking to repair or replace them. I was not aware of this until I recently had the cloth replaced on it. There are 2 of the nuts with a bolt partially threaded and every time a shot hits that rail the washer makes some noise. I am trying to get the guy who installed the cloth to at least remove the two bolts as I am afraid they may be stuck in the nut and the nut is just spinning. There are also other spots where the bolts are not there at all and apparently the nut is just spinning.

My questions are:

1. How difficult is it to replace or fix the broken nuts in the rails? Should I be able to do the job myself? I do not believe there are any bolts broken off in the nuts.
2. How much would be a fair rate for a table mechanic to do this if I decide to pay someone locally? There are probably 5 that will need to be done.
3. Is it much more work to do all of them if it is apart anyways?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Click to expand...

I doubt the capture nut is spinning as there is no room for the nut to spin, but take a look at the length of the rail bolts being 2 1/4" long, and having the correct dome washers.
 
Thanks RKC - I am very ignorant to proper terminology so please excuse any miscommunication.

something the bolt is being threaded into is spinning. For two of the bolts they are partially inserted and still able to freely be turned (without advancing in the threads) by hand. The mechanic who installed the cloth on tuesday said that what holds the insert was broken and spinning.

The bolts are 2 1/4 - the domed washers are on most of the bolts in the table right now but not all of them. I am not home but can check later to see if the domed ones are on the ones going in.

I had assumed I have the same issue in this thread (and several others):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/archive/index.php/t-31832.html

It would help me greatly to be able to visualize what is inside the rail that allows the bolts to go in. Do you (or anyone else) have pictures of all of the hardware involved?
 
Its a Gold Crown 3 correct? If so they used some smaller stamped out floating nuts that are installed parallel to the rail and held in and kept from spinning by 2 little nails. These can loosen up and wallow some of the wood out and spin in the hole (soft wood). This is made worse if someone over the years cranked the nuts down and bent them in half.

To fix it, the bolt has to be removed, cloth and cushion need to come off, retaining tacks pulled out, old floating nut plate needs to be removed and inspected, flattened out threads cleaned up or replaced. Then put all back together again.

A quicker fix for temporary would be to flip the rails over and put a 4 screws in around the nut plate to keep it from spinning...not the best thing to do, but will hold you over until it can be fixed the right way (mill out the existing floating plate cavities, inlay new wood, and install some of the inserts Diamond uses in their rails.)
 
realkingcobra said:
I'd also like to point out that who ever worked on your pool table last is an idiot and should find something else to do for a living.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys,

Not too happy about the way it was left after the cloth install.

Reverend - it is a gold crown 3 based on the label on the table and what I have read online.

RKC - I havent taken the table apart before but I watched the guys do that part. Here is what I picked up on:

1. Remove the ball box.
2. Remove the aprons
3. Remove the ball return track system
4. Remove the pockets followed by the metal outside part of the pocket
5. Unbolt the rails and remove them.

Does that sound right?
 
realkingcobra said:
I'd also like to point out that who ever worked on your pool table last is an idiot and should find something else to do for a living.
Click to expand...

I was going to say exactly what RKC said but he beat me to it.
I am sure that whoever did the work on your table knew the problems with your table when they disassembled it. That would have been the time time to address these issues, not when the job is finished and you call the installer back to ask questions. Just like a car, all bolts and fasteners are installed for a reason, they should all be reinstalled and properly fastened, there are no extras that you can leave out because it will be good enough.
Sorry for your problems, you should be enjoying your beautiful table, not fixing someones mistakes.
 
Yeah, I was super excited to get it, just as excited to get new cloth and now very disappointed and considering selling the table for what I have into it. To make it worse I checked the rest of the bolts (not just around where the noise was coming from) and found another freely spinning bolt. When it was setup initially (less than a month ago) I was told it was missing a couple bolts and I could pick them up at a hardware store. Aparently that meant 3 to 5 bolts missing. And now this mess.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
Table

Call the ppl that did the install and demand they fix the cross threaded bolts they installed.

It's a fairly easy fix for a guy who knows what he's doing.





Rob.M
 
I'm working on getting him to take the bolts out that are freely spinning. I hope they can be removed. He used what sounded like an impact wrench so I assume they are stuck in there pretty snug

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
Spinning captive nuts...

You can cut the bolts by slipping a hacksaw blade in under the rail and use your drill to spin the bolt the hacksaw will cut through the bolt....
 
bigchase said:
You can cut the bolts by slipping a hacksaw blade in under the rail and use your drill to spin the bolt the hacksaw will cut through the bolt....
Click to expand...

The correct way to get the rails off is to center drill the heads of the bolts off with a 3/8" drill bit using a 9/16" wrench to stop the bolt from spinning. Prying up the rails to get enough room to get a hack saw blade in is not good for the wood under the bottom of the rails and takes much longer.
 
Some times you can get lucky and back the spinning bolt out of the floating plate by applying some downward force on the bolt as you un-thread it. Wedge a small pry bar in between the head of the bolt and the washer/bottom of the table and try to back the bolt out. This is the first thing to try before trying to cut off or drill out the bolt.
 
Thanks for all of the advice and info guys, much appreciated. Hopefully he will come through and get them removed so I can start looking at getting the rest of the floating plates fixed.
 
realkingcobra said:
The correct way to get the rails off is to center drill the heads of the bolts off with a 3/8" drill bit using a 9/16" wrench to stop the bolt from spinning. Prying up the rails to get enough room to get a hack saw blade in is not good for the wood under the bottom of the rails and takes much longer.
Click to expand...


Sounds like the rails already loose so you won't have to pry the rails up.you do realize that a hacksaw blade is approximately 1/16th of an inch thick right? Telling someone who probably has never drilled a bold out to use a 3/8's drill to offer the head of the bolt while trying to hold the head of the bolt with a wrench isn't the easiest thing to do. You're setting him up for failure is he's not comfortable using a drill because to drill the heads off he needs to stay in the center of the head of the bolt and with the markings on the bolt head that's not going to be an easy task. If he can't get a hacksaw blade slid unerring the rails and has to drill the heads off the bolts he needs proper instruction on how to accomplish that. He needs a center punch and a hammer to mark the center of the bolt then he needs the correct drill bits to drill that bolt out depending on the material it's made of. Then to make sure he stays in the center of the bolt and doesn't cause any damage to the table he needs to start with a much smaller drill bit than a 3/8's drill bit and drill just deep enough to get through the head of the bolt. Then he should continue by stepping up in increments until he reaches the 3/8'spo and the head of the bolt comes off. I'm an aviation sheet metal mechanic with over 20 years experience I've drilled out more than enough fasteners to know what I'm talking about.

The easiest way since the rail is loose is to slide the hacksaw blade use your drill with an adapter to spin the bolt while applying pressure on the hacksaw blade against the bolt. Less of a chance of causing damage to the table or making things more difficult for him by drilling the bolt off center and then really needing help to get it out. Then it will be much easier to get the captive nuts out of the rails and replaced when you flip the rail upside down on the bench and work on it with more access than upside down under the table
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, just to clarify - I don't plan on dealing with the spinning bolts myself (just the other floating nuts where the guy who put it together couldn't get them in). I am demanding he gets the bolts out and then I will either try to fix the rest myself or hire someone to do it if it isn't too expensive as I don't have a lot of money I can throw at this.

For now I am not going to do anything until he fixes the spinning bolts so he can't try to blame anything on me.

The spinning bolts aside - what would you guys think is a good rate for replacing the floating nuts?

Also, we're the steps I posted for taking the table down to slate correct if I have to do it myself?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
If you have another set of hands, all you have to do is get all the rail bolts out (18) and lift the rails and skirts off in one piece. The Head end of the table needs to be lifted first and then pushed towards the foot end to clear the ball box then lift. Once off just flip them over on the table and do what needs to be done.
 
dontlitethat said:
Call the ppl that did the install and demand they fix the cross threaded bolts they installed.

It's a fairly easy fix for a guy who knows what he's doing.

Rob.M
Click to expand...

The problem is that it seems to me the guy who did the recover has absolutely no idea what he is doing.:mad:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top