Replacing joint pin/insert?

P

pip9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Guys!

Any tips or suggestions on how to properly replace a joint pin and insert?

I have a 5/16x14 pin/insert combo and would like to replace with 3/8x10 pin into threaded wood joint. I need some help removing both the insert in the shaft and the pin in the butt. I have a cue companion lathe with a few years experience doing tips/ferrules....so not an expert by any means.

Thanks in advance!

-Phillip
 
I don't really think the Cue Companion is accurate or rigid enough for this kind of job.
 
I agree with you about the accuracy and stability of the cue companion lathe, however I have made sneaky petes from bar cues in the past which required to drill/tap for the joint pin. I just don't know how to remove an existing pin...or does this require a more rigid machine to do this?

Thanks,
Phillip
 
Removing the pin is the easy part. You will need to heat up the pin with a soldering iron or pencil tourch. Be carfull you don't want to hurt the clear coat. Once you heat up the pin and glue, you can back the pin out with pliers. Now the insert will most likely be brass with an od of 7/16". If you remove this from the shaft, the hole left is already too big for the common 3/8" pin. That is the tricky part. I wouldn't bother. I would just make a new shaft. It of course would be possible to fill this area in and re-drill and tap.

good luck, Jim.
 
pip9ball said:
I agree with you about the accuracy and stability of the cue companion lathe, however I have made sneaky petes from bar cues in the past which required to drill/tap for the joint pin. I just don't know how to remove an existing pin...or does this require a more rigid machine to do this?

Thanks,
Phillip
Click to expand...
Mc2 has given you the basic steps. I suggest you also use a "heat sink" to keep the joint collar from getting too hot when you heat the pin.

Use a piece of modeling clay (no, don't take your kids play toys) buy your own! Put it around the joint collar to shape it, then put it in the freezer til it's nearly frozen. When you're ready to heat the pin put the clay around the joint collar then apply heat to the pin. The clay will absorb some of the heat and will lessen the chance of the epoxy breaking loose.
 
i am currently about to do the same thing.

do you want to change the entire joint? meaning remove the ss collar

i am going from ss 5x16-14 to ivory 3x8-10 sw style pin


i dont think its a great idea to do with a CC lathe

you also gould glue a solid pc of phenolic into that shaft the retap to 3x8-10. thats what i will do
 
I was discussing this the other day with a cuemaker friend of mine, The way he does it is to take a pencil or blow torch and heat the pin till it starts to glow, He aslo puts a damp rag on the butt of the cue to kee the temp down the when hot enought he clamps the pin in a bench vice and turns the butt backing it off the pin and when the pin is out he uses a spray bottle and wets the hole to cool it off. As far as the shaft part you would have to plug the hole, face off and center drill, drill and tap it to 3/8 10 you could do this with your cue companion.
 
Thanks for all the tips! Looks like the best method is to use heat and back out the pin...I'll give that a shot!

-Phillip
 
Strokerz said:
I was discussing this the other day with a cuemaker friend of mine, The way he does it is to take a pencil or blow torch and heat the pin till it starts to glow, He aslo puts a damp rag on the butt of the cue to kee the temp down the when hot enought he clamps the pin in a bench vice and turns the butt backing it off the pin and when the pin is out he uses a spray bottle and wets the hole to cool it off. As far as the shaft part you would have to plug the hole, face off and center drill, drill and tap it to 3/8 10 you could do this with your cue companion.
Click to expand...


IMHO you don't want to get the pin hot enough to glow. Just keep heat on it and test the pin to see if it will screw out. By the way there where some good ideas on keeping the clear coat safe.


Jimbo.
 
pip9ball said:
Hi Guys!

Any tips or suggestions on how to properly replace a joint pin and insert?

I have a 5/16x14 pin/insert combo and would like to replace with 3/8x10 pin into threaded wood joint. I need some help removing both the insert in the shaft and the pin in the butt. I have a cue companion lathe with a few years experience doing tips/ferrules....so not an expert by any means.

Thanks in advance!

-Phillip
Click to expand...

To remove your old pin heat it as other posters have said until it can be backed out. Now since the old pin is 5 1/6 - 14 you will neeed to open the hole up with 5/16 th drill bit. Then tap the hole with a 3/8-10 tap and insert your new pin. I would use a one hour epoxy for setting the pin, and you must be able to spin the cue after the pin is in place to check the pin with a dial indicator, it should be out no more than .002 thousand max.
Now the insert in the shaft since it is brass can be tapped using the 3/8-10 tap, so you do not have to remove the insert. The depth of the hole for the pin will depend on how much pin you want protruding, I normally leave about 1 1/8th inch exposed.
 
A soldering iron may be a safer alternative, but this is what i use for stuff like that. I also use it to unthread ferrules, and It serves me well for that too. It runs on regular, refillable butane lighter fluid that you can buy in almost any store, and the flame can be ajusted. I've owned several torches that ran on butane, but this is the only one that didn't leak down, and needed refilled everytime I needed to use them. This one could sit for months, and fire right up. The only time it needs filled is when I actually used all of the fluid up, and that takes a long time.
The trick with this though is to get the flame set right, and to angle It away from the cue as best as posible. Point just about any torch in the direction of the cue, and it can ride the pin into the faces and burn them. I've been lucky enough not to do that, but it could happen. Also getting the pin to glow would certainly make removing the pin alot easier, but I always try to underdo it just enough to get the pin out, creating no more heat buildup then I have to in order to get it out of the cue.

I don't know if your planing on pulling the insert too, but if so, one trick I've used on 5/16-18 thread when i needed to get an insert out, was to screw a 5/16-18 bolt or another pin, with 2 nuts to lock It in so I could back it out. A 14 tpi pattern will be more difficult to aquire the nuts, but might could cross thread a 18 tpi bolt into It and do the same thing If you don't have to save the old insert for re-use on anything. heating the insert up with iron may be better suited for the insert, but i have transferred the heat through the bolt using this method. It may take alittle longer to get It transfered into the insert though.

Alot of things are preference or related to different situations, But i also aggree with most of the stuff other posters have already mentioned here, and heat is the key.
good luck with it:) Greg
 

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Hey Phillip, This kind of repair is relatively easy if you have the equipment--although you are running the risk of warping the forearm. One problem is achieving maximum concentricity of newly installed pin and re-tapped shaft. Assuming this has been addressed, another hurdle is how can you possibly set up to face the joint and shaft on centers with the cue companion? If you want the joint faces to come together with any precison, you need to have a lathe that will accomodate this procedure. I'll bet dollars to donuts you'll eventually be upgrading and adding to your cue repair/ buiding equipment...sounds like you're getting the bug!

Martin


pip9ball said:
Hi Guys!

Any tips or suggestions on how to properly replace a joint pin and insert?

I have a 5/16x14 pin/insert combo and would like to replace with 3/8x10 pin into threaded wood joint. I need some help removing both the insert in the shaft and the pin in the butt. I have a cue companion lathe with a few years experience doing tips/ferrules....so not an expert by any means.

Thanks in advance!

-Phillip
Click to expand...
 
With this process it can be done with the cue companion. You are replacing the joint pin and insert in an already tapered cue and not making one from scratch or retapering. So you shouldnt have to do much more than a small pass to face the shaft and butt.I have made some sneaky petes from using old house cue butts and a pretapered shaft blank. The best way I have found to get an accurate smooth joint using a cue companion is to use a sanding mandrel like the ones rocker and Brianna sell. Both the shaft colar and butt joint come out the same size ,right at 850 is where mine is.
 
Mc2 said:
IMHO you don't want to get the pin hot enough to glow. Just keep heat on it and test the pin to see if it will screw out. By the way there where some good ideas on keeping the clear coat safe.


Jimbo.
Click to expand...
Guess I like over kill :eek: But seriously if its glowing its too hot.:D The clay thing was a good idea. I have put the wet cloth in the freezer before I wrapped it around the butt, Never thought of clay, gonna have to try that.
 
pip9ball said:
Hi Guys!

Any tips or suggestions on how to properly replace a joint pin and insert?

I have a 5/16x14 pin/insert combo and would like to replace with 3/8x10 pin into threaded wood joint. I need some help removing both the insert in the shaft and the pin in the butt. I have a cue companion lathe with a few years experience doing tips/ferrules....so not an expert by any means.

Thanks in advance!

-Phillip
Click to expand...




I have a suggestion for this process...


If you cut the pin off about 3/8" or so (leaving enough to grab with pliers) from the joint, reface the front edge of the pin so the drill bit will center.

With a small bit, drill into the center of the pin. This will heat the pin from the inside out. Now, use pliers to remove the pin.

There is no risk of damaging clear, joint, etc.
 
I would heat the pin like everyone says but then core out the forearm and the shaft and replace with either new wood or Phenolic. If you try to just drill out the existing thread or bore, you run the chance of the new pin/insert/threads running out.
 
ratcues said:
I would heat the pin like everyone says but then core out the forearm and the shaft and replace with either new wood or Phenolic. If you try to just drill out the existing thread or bore, you run the chance of the new pin/insert/threads running out.
Click to expand...

do you think new wood in the shaft will hold as well as phenolic?

o been planning the same conversion if this cue doesnt sell. i love my shaft i dont wana scrap it. worried about loosing center bad

currently ss 5x16-14 piloted

will be 3x8-10 sw style FF ivory
 
I like and use your method also Ryan.

Martin


ratcues said:
I would heat the pin like everyone says but then core out the forearm and the shaft and replace with either new wood or Phenolic. If you try to just drill out the existing thread or bore, you run the chance of the new pin/insert/threads running out.
Click to expand...
 
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