Response to the "Snooze you lose" thread.

[Jimmy M.]

I wanted to start a new thread because I don't want my response to get lost in the 5 pages (and counting) of that thread.

The description of what happened is correct. One player forgot to move their coin to indicate that they were on the hill. However, both players knew the score and, when the player who was on the hill won the final game, the other player basically gave him the "snooze you lose" routine.

However, where the story is incorrect is in how Dennis handled the situation. I was in a match when it first happened, but Dennis pulled me aside and said, "hey, we have this dispute going on over here", and then filled me in on the details. We both immediately agreed that if a player won three games (it was a race to 3 one-pocket tournament), they won the set, regardless of where the coins were.

We also both agreed that there is no such rule that states that players even need to use coins to keep score so, taking that into account, the location of the coins on the pool table were completely irrelevant. One player won 3 games and that was the end of the set.

I hope that clarifies our position on what took place, and also answers any questions as to whether or not we handled this correctly.

 

[enzo]

I wanted to start a new thread because I don't want my response to get lost in the 5 pages (and counting) of that thread.

The description of what happened is correct. One player forgot to move their coin to indicate that they were on the hill. However, both players knew the score and, when the player who was on the hill won the final game, the other player basically gave him the "snooze you lose" routine.

However, where the story is incorrect is in how Dennis handled the situation. I was in a match when it first happened, but Dennis pulled me aside and said, "hey, we have this dispute going on over here", and then filled me in on the details. We both immediately agreed that if a player won three games (it was a race to 3 one-pocket tournament), they won the set, regardless of where the coins were.

We also both agreed that there is no such rule that states that players even need to use coins to keep score so, taking that into account, the location of the coins on the pool table were completely irrelevant. One player won 3 games and that was the end of the set.

I hope that clarifies our position on what took place, and also answers any questions as to whether or not we handled this correctly.

this is a tough one, let me see, a race to three..... one of the players won 3 games. yeah, i think he should win.

really though, you guys definitely made the right call. this may ALMOST (not quite) be like if a scorekeeper in baseball thought a strike was a ball and the batter said after he got struck out "but it says i only have one strike on me up on the scoreboard."

 

[dabarbr]

I'm glad you cleared it up with this thread. There was a lot of confusion with the other thread. You guys called it the only way it could be called.

Also it's pretty hard not to remember whos got what in a race to three in one pocket.

 

[Prince]

THIS IS THE CALL THAT I MADE!

I was approached by Tom Neil, a player from Tucson, who stated that he and Leil Gay had a situation during their match. Basically, the score was 1-1 and Tom won the third game. Tom forgot to move his coin to 2 before the next game started.

After realizing this, he advised Leil that the true score was 2-1. Leil disagreed and stated that Tom forgot to move his coin. That is when Tom notified me of the disagreement. I was watching Jimmy's match, and i explained to him what happened. We both agreed that if it is 2-1, then it is 2-1, regardless of where the coins are on the table.

In fairness to both players, i stopped their match and pulled them aside. They both began arguing with each other and i immediately stopped them, so as not to disturb the other players.

First I asked Tom what happened, then i asked Leil what happened. Both gave the same account that it was 2-1; however, Leil claimed that Tom forgot to move his coin, therefore, it was still 1-1.

I explained to both of them that there is no requirement to keep the score with coins. If both players agreed that the score was 2-1, then the score is 2-1. I explained that this an honest tour and that we DO NOT tolerate dishonesty. I again said "THE SCORE IS 2-1"!!!

Scott Frost was not consulted for an answer to this scenario before i made the decision. After i made the decision, i mentioned it to Scott, as Leil approached, and Scott agreed that I had made the right decision as well. I don't know where someone got the idea that Scott made this decision. IT DIDN"T HAPPEN!!!!

It's amazes me how quick some people are to criticize others when they don't even have the facts right. I will gladly take an apology to all of those who criticized me in this thread, particularly those who said I should not be running tournaments, and those who make comments about "Arizona players". Jimmy and I run a successful tour here in Arizona, and it is an honest tour.

Thanks Jimmy for letting me know about this thread.

Have a nice day!

Dennis

 

[back2good1]

THIS IS THE CALL THAT I MADE!

Thanks Jimmy for letting me know about this thread. I can't believe it was started in the first place. By one of our very own member to say the least. Sometimes i think people just want attention i guess.

Have a nice day!

Dennis

I want ZERO attention. Be clear on that. Although the post was poorly worded, I agreed with your call. I was simply expressing my discontent with ANYONE trying to say "you snooze you lose". EXPECIALLY, when they knew they were down 2-1.


-Carlos

 

[Jimmy M.]

I want ZERO attention. Be clear on that. Although the post was poorly worded, I agreed with your call. I was simply expressing my discontent with ANYONE trying to say "you snooze you lose". EXPECIALLY, when they knew they were down 2-1.


-Carlos

Hey Carlos. We got it now. We both initially misread your post and took it to mean that Dennis agreed with the "snooze you lose" rule. Sorry about that.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I was approached by Tom Neil, a player from Tucson, who stated that he and Leil Gay had a situation during their match. Basically, the score was 1-1 and Tom won the third game. Tom forgot to move his coin to 2 before the next game started.

After realizing this, he advised Leil that the true score was 2-1. Leil disagreed and stated that Tom forgot to move his coin. That is when Tom notified me of the disagreement. I was watching Jimmy's match, and i explained to him what happened. We both agreed that if it is 2-1, then it is 2-1, regardless of where the coins are on the table.

In fairness to both players, i stopped their match and pulled them aside. They both began arguing with each other and i immediately stopped them, so as not to disturb the other players.

First I asked Tom what happened, then i asked Leil what happened. Both gave the same account that it was 2-1; however, Leil claimed that Tom forgot to move his coin, therefore, it was still 1-1.

I explained to both of them that there is no requirement to keep the score with coins. If both players agreed that the score was 2-1, then the score is 2-1. I explained that this an honest tour and that we DO NOT tolerate dishonesty. I again said "THE SCORE IS 2-1"!!!

Scott Frost was not consulted for an answer to this scenario before i made the decision. After i made the decision, i mentioned it to Scott, as Leil approached, and Scott agreed that I had made the right decision as well. I don't know where someone got the idea that Scott made this decision. IT DIDN"T HAPPEN!!!!


Dennis

LOL......When I read this post I get the strange feeling I am reading a Police Report.....Were you On the Clock and "Packin" when all this went down?

 

[MOJOE]

False info... Don't post if you don't have the whole story b2g

Guess the wording was quite hard to understand.. I'll but out now.. Peace

 

[Ed Simmons]

Great thread!

THIS IS THE CALL THAT I MADE!


Dennis

Jimmy M and Prince,

This was definitely worth starting a new thread. You guys totally cleared up a very confusing situation.

Dennis, I think the majority here agree with your call, and anyone who bashed you yesterday didn't understand the details.

Full credit (and rep) to both of you for clearing this up.

Thanks

 

[Prince]

I want ZERO attention. Be clear on that. Although the post was poorly worded, I agreed with your call. I was simply expressing my discontent with ANYONE trying to say "you snooze you lose". EXPECIALLY, when they knew they were down 2-1.


-Carlos

Carlos,

I misread and/or misunderstood the original thread. It appeared as if you were saying that I agreed with Leil on this incident, which would clearly indicate i was dishonest.

After going back over the post, as i indicated in the original thread, i now understand your stance. Please accept my apology for the above comment. I have edited that post in order to remove it.

Also, Rudy almost got searched. I believe we know why. Nice move!

Dennis

 

[back2good1]

Carlos,

Also, Rudy almost got searched. I believe we know why. Nice move!

Dennis

I would start another thread about that move.... but it would probably be interpreted as - you took all the tourny money and went to LV. lol

-Carlos

 

[tucson9ball]

Bump

Other thread is at top, this one deserves to be next to it.
It is a good idea to move your coin, but seriously, in a race to 3 in 1 pocket, how do you forget the score anyway?

 

[bfdlad]

Other thread is at top, this one deserves to be next to it.
It is a good idea to move your coin, but seriously, in a race to 3 in 1 pocket, how do you forget the score anyway?

I know Carlos was not saying anything about Dennis or Jimmy or the honesty of the tour. He was just talking about the way some people think and what they do to win or get an advantage. Carlos is a big supporter of the Tour and od pool in general and we need more around like him.
I had no misconception that either Dennis or Jimmy handled this situation badly. I don't even need to see what they said to be honest, because I know that between the 2 of them the right decision would be made. They are consistantly running a great tour here in AZ and I appreciate everything they are doing. Just my 2cents

 

[Rick S.]

Also, Rudy almost got searched. I believe we know why. Nice move!

Dennis

Whooops....might better clear that one up also.

Dennis put the proceeds from the tourny on the table, then turned his back for 1/2 second. In that blink of an eye....Carlos weaseled his way over and took the cash.

Dennis turned back around, and there was Rudy. Only guy that was within reach............ (luckily I was 5 ft away)

I can still hear it now......RUDY


RUDY..........

 

[Prince]

Whooops....might better clear that one up also.

Dennis put the proceeds from the tourny on the table, then turned his back for 1/2 second. In that blink of an eye....Carlos weaseled his way over and took the cash.

Dennis turned back around, and there was Rudy. Only guy that was within reach............ (luckily I was 5 ft away)

I can still hear it now......RUDY


RUDY..........

I think Rick was involved in this move. He was used as a distractor. Hey Carlos, I'm saving that move for the finale, it's over 5K added. JK